Personality Cafe banner
21 - 40 of 81 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Hmmmm...I'm starting to see a few connections with some INFJ personality skills and traits which respond to things I consider linked to dylexia.

Ni as I understand it is the aha! moment, it's seeing the big picture, wood for the trees. We use it to "see" how things will progress, predict possible futures and to read people. (and is likly the root of the whole psychic thing)

This a discription of skills linked to upside down/right brain domient thinking, and there are a lot of books and theories linking this to dyslexia.

I'd be interested to see what people thought of this from an artical on Visual Spatual Learners:

Physiological and Personality Factors.
Visual-spatial learners who experience learning problems have heightened sensory awareness to stimuli, such as extreme sensitivity to smells, acute hearing and intense reactions to loud noises. They are constantly bombarded by stimuli; they get so much information that they have trouble filtering it out. They tend to have excellent hearing, but poor listening skills. Their ability to retain and comprehend information auditorily is weak and they have difficulty with sequential tasks.

These children are highly perfectionistic, which means that they cannot handle failure. They usually refuse to attempt trial-and-error learning because they can't cope with the failure inherent in this technique. They have an all-or-none learning style (the aha phenomenon). They either immediately see the correct solution to a problem or they don't get it at all, in which case they may watch quietly (while pretending not to watch) or avoid the situation completely because it is too ego threatening.

Visual-spatial learners have amazing abilities to "read" people. Since they can't rely on audition for information, they develop remarkable visual and intuitive abilities, including reading body language and facial expressions.

Many of the students described in this article were so adept at reading cues and observing people that they could tell what a person was thinking almost verbatim. Oftentimes, in school, they sense a teacher's anxieties and ambivalent feeling towards them, and react with statements such as, "that teacher hates me."
Sound like an INFJ to you? Ok maybe not with school failure, these are exteam cases where it leads to a learning issue (dyslexia perhapes, needs more resurch) BUT...if it does, could this explian the psychic stuff, and the way Ni actually works?

It made me think of this thread too:http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/32366-you-highly-sensitive-person-hsp.html And anther one in Psychology about Introverts being far more sensitive to sensory stimulation.

I might need to make the connections I see clearer, but I think there are some.

(I can give some scientific propositions to what is actually going on to cause hightened sensory awairness and filtering issues, and other skills realted to this ect, if people are interested)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
359 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
happy eating :) - I'll just add a bit more to this meanwhile

In scientific community itself there is a lot of bs going on. Papers you publish are supposed to get peer reviewed, only people get lazy about it, prefer to spend time on their work, don't review them or don't understand material at hand. Some people publish just whatever to increase their publication count. Some people are just bad scientists - don't do control experiments, don't see multiple interpretation possible with their data, publish results that cannot be replicated. Sometimes they get caught at it and their papers get withdrawn. You try to follow experimental procedure of somebody, can't replicate it, write them an email or call them and say "I cannot follow your experimental procedure to replicate your results" - the person doesn't reply or starts to bs you. It is sad state of affairs but like in any workplace there is human element at work. Coupling the above with military which is basically lots of money + deadlines + focus on positive results + supervisors who don't really understand what you're doing, opens up a lot of windows for bad science to be get done.

I saw a documentary about Stargate project and did a bit of reading about it. My conclusion is too much grey areas for it to be solid good science. I really think much more benefit would have come out of it if they channeled this money into psychology departments at various universities and let them study basics of how mind mind works first rather than launching into "psychic phenomena".

You sound to me an INFJ with developed thinking, which by the way i rarely find. More accurately never found till now.
With most of the INFJ's you cant really argue, they back out very early. And they dont seem to get and respond to your logical arguments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,474 Posts
happy eating :) - I'll just add a bit more to this meanwhile

In scientific community itself there is a lot of bs going on. Papers you publish are supposed to get peer reviewed, only people get lazy about it, prefer to spend time on their work, don't review them or don't understand material at hand. Some people publish just whatever to increase their publication count. Some people are just bad scientists - don't do control experiments, don't see multiple interpretation possible with their data, publish results that cannot be replicated. Sometimes they get caught at it and their papers get withdrawn. You try to follow experimental procedure of somebody, can't replicate it, write them an email or call them and say "I cannot follow your experimental procedure to replicate your results" - the person doesn't reply or starts to bs you. It is sad state of affairs but like in any workplace there is human element at work. Coupling the above with military which is basically lots of money + deadlines + focus on positive results + supervisors who don't really understand what you're doing, opens up a lot of windows for bad science to be get done.

I saw a documentary about Stargate project (also on Discovery Channel, same as whiteAshes) and did a bit of reading about it after as it captured my imagination too. My conclusion is too much grey areas for it to be solid good science. I really think much more benefit would have come out of it if they channeled this money into psychology and neurology departments at various universities and let them study basics of how mind mind works first rather than launching into "psychic phenomena".
This project didn't have a deadline nor was there lot's of money. Kind hard to keep a good secret with all that attention that comes with money being spent. The project also lasted 20 years with the reported of 20 million dollars.
As I have mentioned to Whiteashes the U.S.S.R was the one's who started looking into psychic research. Which is why the USA got involved out the worry's of What if?
Of course there are going to be grey areas involved in this type's of studies as well as any studies ever studied. How can anybody clear up the grey areas unless they keep studying. Are you implying that there is no psychology and neurology departments? To limit what scientist can study would be a bad day for man kind. The numerous scientific discoveries that has been proven was at one point considered not "good science" or a joke or absurd. That is until the scientist diligently continued their work in spite of the ridicule and skeptics and proven their work to be true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vel

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
This project didn't have a deadline nor was there lot's of money. Kind hard to keep a good secret with all that attention that comes with money being spent. The project also lasted 20 years with the reported of 20 million dollars.
As I have mentioned to Whiteashes the U.S.S.R was the one's who started looking into psychic research. Which is why the USA got involved out the worry's of What if?
Of course there are going to be grey areas involved in this type's of studies as well as any studies ever studied. How can anybody clear up the grey areas unless they keep studying. Are you implying that there is no psychology and neurology departments? To limit what scientist can study would be a bad day for man kind. The numerous scientific discoveries that has been proven was at one point considered not "good science" or a joke or absurd. That is until the scientist diligently continued their work in spite of the ridicule and skeptics and proven their work to be true.
The fact that there was money is already a lot of money :) Among all human pursuits science often gets underfunded as it is not something that yields immediate benefit. All projects have some kind of deadlines - people don't just give you money and say "do whatever with it" they want some form of accountability present, hence the documentations and time frames. Sometimes there is pressure for results and positive results at that.

U.S.S.R. could have possibly doing this kind of research. I mean we are talking about the country here which has persecuted scientists that sided with evolution by natural selection as per Darwin instead favored scientists that have sided with Lamarck's selection by developed traits, because this theory was in line with communist vision. When you mix science and government (military is a branch of thereof) then science can get perverted, truths can get distorted in this manner. Even if you separate science from outside interests there is internal human ego element that can obstruct search for truth and instead turn it into search for how to boost one own's ego. For example the incident with that South Korean scientist who faked research on stem cells. This was easy to uncover, but small scale lies and fake data happen all the time (not always on purpose sometimes it is just case of people doing bad science, not thinking thoroughly enough).

No I am not implying that there are no psychology or neurology departments. I am just implying that they could always use some more funding :) There is no limit on what you can study, but time, money, and resource humanity has are all limited, thus studying anything and everything and following through bad implementation and experimental designs is simply a waste. Stargate project imho was just that. I mean seriously they needed 20 years and 20 million dollars to determine if people could see through walls? And what good came out of it? They stopped the project because it wasn't yielding any useful results.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
You sound to me an INFJ with developed thinking, which by the way i rarely find. More accurately never found till now.
With most of the INFJ's you cant really argue, they back out very early. And they dont seem to get and respond to your logical arguments.
it is not that INFJs lack in thinking ability - too many times I find that I cannot be bothered to follow through a debate then I just leave and move on to something more interesting, same thing happens to INTJs btw, which is why you may not encounter as many long hardcore debates that go on for multiple pages on our forums as on xNTPs ones - call it the INxJ version of ENxP attention deficit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
it is not that INFJs lack in thinking ability - too many times I find that I cannot be bothered to follow through a debate then I just leave and move on to something more interesting, same thing happens to INTJs btw, which is why you may not encounter as many long hardcore debates that go on for multiple pages on our forums as on xNTPs ones - call it the INxJ version of ENxP attention deficit
I think many of us are perfectly capable of debating and thinking logicly.

I used to head my school debating and public speaking teams, I won awards for it. As Vel says, I am simply too lazy to really get into debate sometimes, especially if I feel it is argument for arguments sake, or it wont lead to anything productive. But put me in a situation were it is encoraged or required, especially in real life where I can read you and express myself without the constrains of text...and baby, I can tie Ts in nots. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,474 Posts
The fact that there was money is already a lot of money :) Among all human pursuits science often gets underfunded as it is not something that yields immediate benefit. All projects have some kind of deadlines - people don't just give you money and say "do whatever with it" they want some form of accountability present, hence the documentations and time frames. Sometimes there is pressure for results and positive results at that.

U.S.S.R. could have possibly doing this kind of research. I mean we are talking about the country here which has persecuted scientists that sided with evolution by natural selection as per Darwin instead favored scientists that have sided with Lamarck's selection by developed traits, because this theory was in line with communist vision. When you mix science and government (military is a branch of thereof) then science can get perverted, truths can get distorted in this manner. Even if you separate science from outside interests there is internal human ego element that can obstruct search for truth and instead turn it into search for how to boost one own's ego. For example the incident with that South Korean scientist who faked research on stem cells. This was easy to uncover, but small scale lies and fake data happen all the time (not always on purpose sometimes it is just case of people doing bad science, not thinking thoroughly enough).

No I am not implying that there are no psychology or neurology departments. I am just implying that they could always use some more funding :) There is no limit on what you can study, but time, money, and resource humanity has are all limited, thus studying anything and everything and following through bad implementation and experimental designs is simply a waste. Stargate project imho was just that. I mean seriously they needed 20 years and 20 million dollars to determine if people could see through walls? And what good came out of it? They stopped the project because it wasn't yielding any useful results.
Considering that government has a 21.5 billion fund for the scientific community it is fair to say there is no underfunding of scientific exploration. Since Stargate was a government issued project that they considered a reasonable and valid exploration .8 million a year is not that much especially since they spend more than 20 million on a single fighter jet that's just a drop in the bucket. It also seems that you are under the impression that the project was just to see if you can see through walls or not. This project was considered a military advancement for use in cases just like some police use. For situations that that they have no clue which way to go or how to handle or solve the situation. The stargate program was only used for major ordeals or sensitive ones. The deadlines that you speak of was a review once a year through the government. Any scientific study will have documents or files of their research funded or not a document doesn't imply a deadline. The project itself wasn't a deadline orientated study anyway. They wasn't trying to do stem cell research from a non government organization. If the project wasn't yielding any results they would of had stopped before the 23 mark. Which is a long time for a psychic investigator style project.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,725 Posts
If there are such psychic phenomena such as telekinesis, teleportation and telepathy, there has to be a scientific explanation for it. What we may think as magical and psychic today, may be something so natural and normal in several hundreds of years. Our current limitation of the natural world gives us the sense that there are some things that are impossible or sometimes fantasy, but in my opinion,sometime in the future we will get to explore the depths of the mind and of nature and come up with a logical explanations of why things happen as they do.

I don't buy the crap that INFJ's are psychic, we just have a really good internal and external perception of stimuli. We can predict future possibilities based on patterns that we pick up from our unconscious minds. I have a good ability to do this, but I'm sometimes really mistaken of what I think it's going to happen, but it's something that my mind naturally gravitates. I need to know what's going to happen, and because of this urge to know the future, I become really observant of patterns from the environment along with my experiences to come up with a possibility of what's going to happen in the future. Sometimes I'm accurate, and sometimes...well, sometimes I'm just plain wrong lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalien

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,675 Posts
I don't like to attribute anything to mysticism without proper evidence.

But I can say that none of my friends will play games of dice against me, like risk, etc :laughing: I out-roll them every time.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
Considering that government has a 21.5 billion fund for the scientific community it is fair to say there is no underfunding of scientific exploration. Since Stargate was a government issued project that they considered a reasonable and valid exploration .8 million a year is not that much especially since they spend more than 20 million on a single fighter jet that's just a drop in the bucket. It also seems that you are under the impression that the project was just to see if you can see through walls or not. This project was considered a military advancement for use in cases just like some police use. For situations that that they have no clue which way to go or how to handle or solve the situation. The stargate program was only used for major ordeals or sensitive ones. The deadlines that you speak of was a review once a year through the government. Any scientific study will have documents or files of their research funded or not a document doesn't imply a deadline. The project itself wasn't a deadline orientated study anyway. They wasn't trying to do stem cell research from a non government organization. If the project wasn't yielding any results they would of had stopped before the 23 mark. Which is a long time for a psychic investigator style project.
In states that's 0.5% of total budget and compare that to the 600-700 bil that military receives. Now if things were reversed and there were 600 billion available for science research and 20 billion for military we might have had some some more antibiotics to combat that bacteria that got spread from India that is resistant to all drugs and might have been sending people to colonize mars by now. But due to human nature this is not how things run - we have to defend ourselves and wage "war on terrorism".

There might have been just one deadline but there sure was a focus on obtaining positive results. US psychics after all had to outdo USSR psychics and what if Russians found something US hasn't found. Was an era of a lot of paranoia which made people do some very irrational things. 20 million is indeed on the smaller scale of things, but this doesn't detract from the fact that this money could have been spent on more useful fundamental research in psychology or neurology, on studies of very simple predictive abilities in animals. Seeing through walls is basically what it boiled down to once you strip all the fancy wording from it.

... If the project wasn't yielding any results they would of had stopped before the 23 mark. Which is a long time for a psychic investigator style project.
Unless of course they were led on by promise of positive results, backed up by uncertainty what if Russians find something first. At the end project was terminated on basis on not being "valuable to the intelligence community".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,553 Posts
I refuse to believe I have psychic powers until I have at least minimal control over the force.

I do however believe in ESP. I once was walking with a friend down a dark street one evening and shouted something. When I shouted, all the street lamps on the road we were walking down went out simultaneously.

I've also caused my roommate's cell phone to turn on by itself and play music. Once it actually played a song that'd been stuck in my head all day. I also tend to make GPS systems lead us away on surprise roadtrips.

The doctor told me I have an irregular amount of electricity inside my heart. This is also something that my grandfather had... He couldn't wear watches, as his body would make some sort of electrical interference with it. He had to wear a copper wire bracelet in order to diffuse the excess energy.

I can wear a watch, but I still manage to occasionally mess up electronic devices when I get near them. Usually only happens when I'm very emotional, though.

Link: Report your Unusual Phenomena: High Voltage People
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,993 Posts
Intuitively pick me up then! I want to see who's more intuitive and visionary, INFP's or INFJ's..ROFL :crazy:

Okay I was just passing by and I got curious
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,369 Posts
If there are such psychic phenomena such as telekinesis, teleportation and telepathy, there has to be a scientific explanation for it. What we may think as magical and psychic today, may be something so natural and normal in several hundreds of years. Our current limitation of the natural world gives us the sense that there are some things that are impossible or sometimes fantasy, but in my opinion,sometime in the future we will get to explore the depths of the mind and of nature and come up with a logical explanations of why things happen as they do.

I don't buy the crap that INFJ's are psychic, we just have a really good internal and external perception of stimuli. We can predict future possibilities based on patterns that we pick up from our unconscious minds. I have a good ability to do this, but I'm sometimes really mistaken of what I think it's going to happen, but it's something that my mind naturally gravitates. I need to know what's going to happen, and because of this urge to know the future, I become really observant of patterns from the environment along with my experiences to come up with a possibility of what's going to happen in the future. Sometimes I'm accurate, and sometimes...well, sometimes I'm just plain wrong lol
1st paragraph~~I agree with you. People fear the unknown. Scientifically, the norm of thought dictates that if something isn't proven by physical evidence it doesn't exist.

2nd paragraph~~Yes, INFJs are good at patterns that are picked up from the unconscious mind. Psyhic ability is a label with a negative reputation. There are many levels of strength in the use of intuition. Through experiences, when my intuition is extremly strong, I don't know the exact details of what has happened; I find out in time (be it minutes, hours, days, etc.). No, I don't have the answers as to why or how.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unicorntopia

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
I refuse to believe I have psychic powers until I have at least minimal control over the force.

I do however believe in ESP. I once was walking with a friend down a dark street one evening and shouted something. When I shouted, all the street lamps on the road we were walking down went out simultaneously.

I've also caused my roommate's cell phone to turn on by itself and play music. Once it actually played a song that'd been stuck in my head all day. I also tend to make GPS systems lead us away on surprise roadtrips.

The doctor told me I have an irregular amount of electricity inside my heart. This is also something that my grandfather had... He couldn't wear watches, as his body would make some sort of electrical interference with it. He had to wear a copper wire bracelet in order to diffuse the excess energy.

I can wear a watch, but I still manage to occasionally mess up electronic devices when I get near them. Usually only happens when I'm very emotional, though.

Link: Report your Unusual Phenomena: High Voltage People
I know of someone else who does that to watches, her dad does it too.

I don't think they affect any other electrical items, and I don't do anything like that, still, it's pretty cool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,553 Posts
I know of someone else who does that to watches, her dad does it too.

I don't think they affect any other electrical items, and I don't do anything like that, still, it's pretty cool.
Don't be alarmed, but I think I might be the next step in evolution.

Still doing the math on that one, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
I get strong impressions about people with seemingly insufficient evidence to "get there" logically. I see future events before they happen (often in vivid detail), but nailing down "whens" is nearly impossible for me. With those who I'm emotionally close to (generally a romantic partner), I can tell their rough emotional state if I focus - and sometimes even if I don't - regardless of distance.

As far as remote viewing, I messed about with it nearly 20 years ago, but the low success rate didn't really justify the effort involved.

I'll also take a contrary stance here and state that science may never be able to fully unravel this sort of phenomenon. They are subjective experiences, and science tends to focus on the objective side of things. And consider that if they ever are dissected and reproduced artificially, they'll be used to sell us things... For that reason alone, I'd prefer that some mystery about them remains.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,369 Posts
I get strong impressions about people with seemingly insufficient evidence to "get there" logically. I see future events before they happen (often in vivid detail), but nailing down "whens" is nearly impossible for me. With those who I'm emotionally close to (generally a romantic partner), I can tell their rough emotional state if I focus - and sometimes even if I don't - regardless of distance.

As far as remote viewing, I messed about with it nearly 20 years ago, but the low success rate didn't really justify the effort involved.

I'll also take a contrary stance here and state that science may never be able to fully unravel this sort of phenomenon. They are subjective experiences, and science tends to focus on the objective side of things. And consider that if they ever are dissected and reproduced artificially, they'll be used to sell us things... For that reason alone, I'd prefer that some mystery about them remains.
I ran a low key ( so to speak) ground in my previous response; I was feeling the playing ground out. Thank you for being contrary! :happy:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Introspiritual
21 - 40 of 81 Posts
Top