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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I've got an experiment that could show whether people are biased against porn, but there's no function to include images without URL's. The experiment itself is simple, it involves looking at screenshots of pornstars facial expressions during sex scenes. The questions I would ask are:

Do you think that the woman is being abused, coerced, degraded, humiliated, is in pain, hates what she's doing, is faking her emotions and experience, or likes what she's doing, is genuinely aroused and horny, and performing in porn for pleasure, and lastly what type of sex act is she performing in?

Is there a solution to attach the screenshots here without URL's?
 

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ha, might want to refrain from posting those pics. won't get the result you're after anyhow...


as far as the OP is concerned, it depends. i really don't have a preference for a particular type of porn (aside from general kink; something seeming "wrong" in a way), i more look for the ones where the people actually do seem to be enjoying it. it's not just some odd, random, cold act--whatever kind of sex they're having, there's a baseline of eroticism that comes out in the mannerisms of each.

and of course, there will be opposites... so, "it depends".
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't understand the low feedback, there are lot of people championing the Anti-porn campaign, Fight The New Drug, I would've thought it lies in their and Anti-porn supporters in general's interest to prove me wrong.
 

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Most porn look very fake and over the top. Maybe they are enjoying it but they have to overact, you know in like the movies. There are some good ones that seem genuine like they enjoy what they are doing but who knows those could be the fake ones.
 

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I don't understand the low feedback, there are lot of people championing the Anti-porn campaign, Fight The New Drug, I would've thought it lies in their and Anti-porn supporters in general's interest to prove me wrong.
Yes, I recently got into an argument online over how the right to free speech makes porn a necessity for a free society but I maintain that if that is freedom, I want nothing to do with it. Porn is very destructive and needs to addressed as the societal problem it is. Is there a place for erotica? Sure, yes. But, what is currently being peddled is simply not right. We are taking advantage of women, using and abusing them, and it is not ok..not if you are doing that, not if you are not but not calling those who are out for it.

As humans, we are better than this. And as men, we need to not let women be abused so readily. Those are our people, we are responsible for them. Education is key.

Nobody likes to be told they are wrong, I think a kind approach is best. But at least it is starting to be recognized as a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've uploaded them. Having seen the porn scenes myself, I think I have quite an accurate understanding of how they feel in it, but that's open to interpretation. The screenshots are chosen for their ability to be interpreted in different ways in regards to a person's bias or prejudice, or not, towards porn.

Image codes: Screenshots
 

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I already know I'm going to answer in the negative. I don't think pornstars and prostitutes really get off on their partners all that much, especially since they're often asked to do things that aren't all that pleasurable from their angle. I think porn is free speech though as long as it's consensual.

Edit: I just looked at the photos, I definitely see them as expression of pain over pleasure. I'm not sure a still is really the most accurate way to do this experiment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you, it's very interesting that you think they are expressing pain over pleasure, I think most people if they saw the porn scenes live rather than a still, they'd think differently, obviously I can't show them here, but the screenshots are all taken in what I would see as heightened arousal, and orgasm for some.
 

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I don't have a moral problem with the actual content of pornography (if it isn't genuinely sadistic and doesn't contradict the idea of sympathizing equally with everyone's happiness-suffering) but in the long run I think it has a negative drug like effect on the brain and desensitizes people sexually. I think it's better to masturbate to your imagination if you're not having actual sex.

I don't see the problem with porn stars faking an orgasm or arousal. Pornography and sex work is about selling a fantasy, it's a legitimate service that people benefit from but it seems to me that most people don't take the idea of sexual pleasure being a legitimate and important part of general psychological well-being seriously (wanting sexual gratification is considered a trivial and sometimes perverted concern - even when arousal is completely non sadistic and doesn't stem from any lack of identification with the other person's pleasure or stress - and sexual pleasure isn't considered 'real happiness'). Depending on how turned off I was I could easily see myself having sex or sexual contact with some women I'm not attracted to for altruistic reasons, even if I gained no personal erotic or sexual pleasure from it it would make me happy to cause them pleasure.
 

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If a person keep eating the same food over and over again, wouldn't they eventually get bored of it?

Human's eyes are deceptive. Never judge a book by its cover. Porn stars may seem like they are enjoying themselves, but are they really enjoying themselves, or are they just putting up an act because this is the only way to lure audience to watch their movies? Do you think porn stars are really able to reach their orgasms within just one scene? Have you ever wondered how many times they have to re-take a scene just to reach an orgasm? Have you ever wondered how porn stars truly feel from having sex with all sorts of people, even people whom they find unattractive?

And imagine you are a businessman in a porn industry. How would you try to attract audience to watch your movies? Wouldn't you hire a bunch of porn stars and tell them to look as if they are enjoying themselves at all times?

It's not difficult to figure out how the brain of a businessman in a porn industry works, if you really take the time to think about it.

Conclusion: Everything about porn is fake. It's just a money-making tool and many people have fallen into the trap.
 

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I am not in any way expert on porn and women orgasm, but strictly depending on my gut ability to read emotions in face, only second picture I would link to positive enjoyment with sixth and seven being hard to judge because of closed eyes.

But I do not really judge physical arousal, rather perception of lack of mixed feelings.

Pictures 3 and 4 are actually a bit distressing.
 

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I like porn that says stuff like 'first time' or 'virgin' because it looks a hella lot more humane aka real

I don’t think you necessarily need to see faces, from a female perspective there are certain positions that are a lot more pleasurable (female on top; least pleasurable is when some dork tries to throw my legs over my head for deepest drive, I mean…). Consider female anatomy if you want to consider her pleasure. The clit is the key to orgasm. Much of porn involves what looks to me as a man masturbating into a woman (hard driving pounding) while she lays there and takes it while pretending to enjoy it. Actually women are taught to live for their man and his pleasure, so they may even think they are sort of enjoying it, but I bet not a quarter the fun as the man is having. I’ve had orgasms, they feel really freakin nice. I’ve watched others pleasure themselves with no concern for my pleasure, that’s a pretty shitty feeling if you’re in that position often enough.

 

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The clit is the key to orgasm.



I've read something similar. Apparently, only around 30% of women orgasm from vaginal intercourse.


Women are taught to live for their man and his pleasure
No, they are not.

they may even think they are sort of enjoying it
How can someone mistakenly think they are enjoying something that they aren't enjoying?

I’ve watched others pleasure themselves with no concern for my pleasure,
Much of porn involves what looks to me as a man masturbating into a woman (hard driving pounding)
I don't want to pry into your personal life, and I'm not necessarily trying to make a point, but what would a man who was concerned with his partner's pleasure having vaginal intercourse with her look like in contrast with a man who was not concerned with his partner's pleasure having vaginal sex with her. I could understand saying he has no concern if he's not performing cunniingus or making an effort to last longer or something like that but unless she's giving specific requests that he ignores, wouldn't that just be him not being a compatible lover? Besides faster or slower, how many different ways can you penetrate someone?

If porn is marketed toward men, it's probably because men are the primary consumers. And like I said, porn is about fantasy. I have to cut off here.


 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am not in any way expert on porn and women orgasm, but strictly depending on my gut ability to read emotions in face, only second picture I would link to positive enjoyment with sixth and seven being hard to judge because of closed eyes.

But I do not really judge physical arousal, rather perception of lack of mixed feelings.

Pictures 3 and 4 are actually a bit distressing.
With risk of sounding really crude, so my sincerest apologies. I'm trying to balance the porn debate with what I hope can be an objective and unbiased view.

I can tell you from watching the scenes, the first and second screenshots both seem to be of the woman enjoying sex, it's in the middle of a creampie, which she seems completely ok with.

The third and fourth screenshot is of a pornstar who is quite sexually agressive or assertive, and is an anal scene. It turns into an anal creampie, which the two pornstars share avidly. The pornstar in the screenshots also squirts a few times, which seems to be linked to female orgasms. The science behind female ejaculation | Features | Lifestyle | The Independent

The fifth screenshot seems to be from an anal orgasm, which is debatable.

The sixth screenshot was chosen due to its difficult way to decide what it means, it is however, just before ass to mouth, from the woman in the screenshot. The seventh screenshot is a pornstar having anal sex, but again, it was chosen due to its neutral facial expression, it's debatable what she's feeling, but watching the porn scene, she does seem to enjoy it.

The eighth screenshot is taken just before an extensive ass to mouth scene, which she does seem to enjoy. It was chosen due to the pornstar's neutral facial expression. Ass to mouth isn't exactly desirable if you think about it, but for some it's a turn on, myself included.

The ninth and tenth screenshot are from a DP scene, and what appears to be an orgasm, where she rolls her eyes up, and also loses her ability to speak after she says she can't move.

The eleventh screenshot is from an anal scene, and she sticks her tongue out and shuts one eye which seems to indicate she likes what he's doing. However, again, that's up for debate.

The last two screenshots are just before the pornstar in the screenshots is asked whether she wants to do ass to mouth, and she says yes Sir, yes please, and does the tongue gesture last pictured. She is known to like anal sex, and from what it appears, she likes ass to mouth as well. However, all these screenshots are up to debate in what they mean for the women, as I have written. It however is interesting to hear all your opinions.

Is it a valuable experiment to add to the porn debate?
 

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With risk of sounding really crude, so my sincerest apologies.
No need to apologize, I am not emotionally invested or interested in porn or porn debate. Lets say that I am more interested in phenomenon of ability to feel out moods and emotions from visual hints.

I'm trying to balance the porn debate with what I hope can be an objective and unbiased view.
That might be a little over-optimistic, because you are depending on your judgement of pleasure and emotion behind act. It's like trying to get "objective" view on wrestling by watching the matches.

Is it a valuable experiment to add to the porn debate?
It depends on what it brings to you. For me the interest ends in epistemic problems of your method of experiment.

But there is actually one side of porn debate that I think is really good to open - the dishonesty and hypocrisy about porn and erotica and resulting sexual exploitation as described by Stefan Grosjean.


Stefan is erotic art photographer from Switzerland and founder of Fair Trade Nudes who works with adult industry models so he likely have pretty accurate idea about how it works. I admire both his reasonable approach to fight sexual exploitation by pointing at the hypocrisy and his photographic skills.
His Frequently told lies about porn might interest you, though waring - there is NSWF illustration picture with pinnochio a nude lady symbolizing the myths about porn.


Following excerpt might be of use to you and your experiment:

Frequently told lies about porn said:
“Women in porn have real orgasms”
Usually it’s all pretended for the camera. Just like the actors in a Hollywood romance pretend to be in love with each other in front of the camera. It’s called acting.

“Women in porn never have real orgasms”
While most women in porn only pretend to love it, there are also a few who genuinely take pleasure in doing it. I had the chance to talk with two or three of them and I admired their courage to swim against the current.
 

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I've uploaded them. Having seen the porn scenes myself, I think I have quite an accurate understanding of how they feel in it, but that's open to interpretation. The screenshots are chosen for their ability to be interpreted in different ways in regards to a person's bias or prejudice, or not, towards porn.

Image codes: Screenshots
They look downright bored to me. Except for images three and four, which make me uncomfortable.
 

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I've uploaded them. Having seen the porn scenes myself, I think I have quite an accurate understanding of how they feel in it, but that's open to interpretation. The screenshots are chosen for their ability to be interpreted in different ways in regards to a person's bias or prejudice, or not, towards porn.

Image codes: Screenshots
1 and 2: Not really having the best time, kinda bored but not in pain. Vaginal penetration.

3 and 4: Having the best time. Being pushed to the edge, force. Excellent. Some sort of penetration. Looks like she's cumming in 3 and just after cumming in 4.

5: Face is relaxed, possibly feeling amazing and she's either slobbered on her chin from feeling amazing and not caring or someone else has done so. Vaginal penetration.

6: Face is relaxed but she's not in great pleasure so bored? Just getting into it? Directing and not feeling much? Either vaginal penetration or receiving oral.

7: Acting like it's great but it's not. As above.

8: Looks like she's in that state of pleasure where you feel amazing but you're tired or she's handling pain. Could be anal.

9 and 10: Lost to pleasure. Perfect. Vaginal penetration.

11: Lol waiting for cumshot, bored/worried. Someone's jerking off in front of her.

12 and 13: Mentally pleased but not physically being stimulated. Giving oral.

None of them look like they hate it but maybe some are just "meh".
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
No need to apologize, I am not emotionally invested or interested in porn or porn debate. Lets say that I am more interested in phenomenon of ability to feel out moods and emotions from visual hints.


That might be a little over-optimistic, because you are depending on your judgement of pleasure and emotion behind act. It's like trying to get "objective" view on wrestling by watching the matches.


It depends on what it brings to you. For me the interest ends in epistemic problems of your method of experiment.

But there is actually one side of porn debate that I think is really good to open - the dishonesty and hypocrisy about porn and erotica and resulting sexual exploitation as described by Stefan Grosjean.


Stefan is erotic art photographer from Switzerland and founder of Fair Trade Nudes who works with adult industry models so he likely have pretty accurate idea about how it works. I admire both his reasonable approach to fight sexual exploitation by pointing at the hypocrisy and his photographic skills.
His Frequently told lies about porn might interest you, though waring - there is NSWF illustration picture with pinnochio a nude lady symbolizing the myths about porn.


Following excerpt might be of use to you and your experiment:
Thanks for this, great article.

I don't know what you mean by epistemic problems in my method of experiment though. As Stefan Grosjean's article pointed out, there are a few women who genuinely enjoy working in porn, and this is a potential side I'm trying to show with the experiment. The only way to know for sure though is to ask the pornstars themselves, if someone believes they're lying because of the view that no pornstar willingly would want to work in porn, it's an attack on their integrity. If the pornstars are lying, then they shouldn't work in porn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
1 and 2: Not really having the best time, kinda bored but not in pain. Vaginal penetration.

3 and 4: Having the best time. Being pushed to the edge, force. Excellent. Some sort of penetration. Looks like she's cumming in 3 and just after cumming in 4.

5: Face is relaxed, possibly feeling amazing and she's either slobbered on her chin from feeling amazing and not caring or someone else has done so. Vaginal penetration.

6: Face is relaxed but she's not in great pleasure so bored? Just getting into it? Directing and not feeling much? Either vaginal penetration or receiving oral.

7: Acting like it's great but it's not. As above.

8: Looks like she's in that state of pleasure where you feel amazing but you're tired or she's handling pain. Could be anal.

9 and 10: Lost to pleasure. Perfect. Vaginal penetration.

11: Lol waiting for cumshot, bored/worried. Someone's jerking off in front of her.

12 and 13: Mentally pleased but not physically being stimulated. Giving oral.

None of them look like they hate it but maybe some are just "meh".
Thanks for this, this is the kind of response I was looking for. The rest of the scene with the first pornstar in the screenshots, seems to suggest she's enjoying the sex. The screenshots are during three anal creampies.

3 and 4 are from an anal scene, and do suggest what you're saying.

5 is anal, and does seem to suggest she's having an orgasm.

6 is just before the pornstar in the screenshot does ass to mouth. She seems to enjoy it.

7, you could be right, it's difficult to tell, but she does seem to enjoy the scene somewhat.

8 is in the middle of her doing ass to mouth, and was deliberately chosen when she was not engaging in the sex.

9 and 10, definitely, it was a DP scene.

11 was her having anal sex.

12 and 13 was a great response from you, mentally pleased, not many would think that, especially when she's just been asked if she wants to do ass to mouth and says yes Sir, yes please. Ass to mouth hygienically is very disgusting and potentially very dangerous to one's health, but for some including myself, it's arousing, and it seems to be the same case for Francesca Le, who's the pornstar in the screenshots. She's also known to love anal, which may be why she's ok with ass to mouth, you'd have to ask her to know.
 
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