[Ann Kane]

Pick Up Artist tactics, "theory" what have you. What is yoru experience and opinion on this stuff?

ok this may be laughable, in its cheesy "guy in a bar" form, but I've noticed a lot of guys manifesting this kind of behavior, to various degrees. the more clever ones are very subtle, and make you think they'er not doing anything. those are the ones I'm watching for.

Seems more of a feeler guy thing, they have more of a vested interest in their emotional ego, and less confidence in their ability to be thinker witty. (sorry) so they resort to emotional strategy, which is what they do best. Nts will do intellectual strategy. I'm not interested in that, as I'm already familiar with it. I'm interested in recognizing feeler game. I draw them like flies. They see my ENTPness, even if they dont know what it is, and they want to own me like a toddler on a leash at Disneyland. So I've decided to learn to understand and recognize, and master, this kind of conscious behavior. I want to reverse roles on the players. I"m already intuitive. I can compartmentalize and act. I need to know quickly when im seen as a person, and when i'm seen as a target. And then decide quickly how far to play into their delusion, and when to shock them with my awareness.

Also, im extremely interested in predicting guys' behavior. Now what i say by predicting, means not jumping to one conclusion like its infallible. I approach it like, narrowing it down to the most likely options- the way elves saw visions of possible versions of the future. When you recognize an agenda and pattern in someone, its pretty easy, though you wanna keep an open mind about at least 2 most likely scenarios about how this person will proceed.

For example. Dude excluded me from early invite, thinking i'm sure to make a point about my not going to his other events. I keep letting him read my stuff, he'll interpret that as either "im all good" indifference, or as me trying to get his attention. I predict he will most likely send last minute invite, thinking he is clever like i've been waiting. IF he doesn't, he'll probably send one in the future. When people do things that are reactionary, they WILL be checking for a reaction. Without one that indicates partiality, he'll have step forward a bit more, or forget. If he forgets, i decide whether or not to step out myself. (probably not in this case.)

 

[FuzzyLittleManPeach]

Ahhh social dynamics is so fun. I know exactly what you're referring to, and I tend to play into these games just to prove my own predictions correct (and out of curiosity). Sometimes I don't feel like it haha, it just depends.

This ESTP I know uses really good manipulative tactics, but his weakness was in revealing to me that he has the capacity to use them in the first place. So I watch him from a distance and EVERYBODY falls for his "salesman" routine, and then he comes around trying to tailor my perception of things, and I promptly laugh in his face.

 

[bellisaurius]

I enjoy reading it because I like it as a rawer countepart to more touchy-feely-we're-all-the-same-and-special-stuff. There's some valuable material in them hills in terms of general manipulation, but I often get the impression of bragadiccio that bugs me, so it's easy to OD on.

I'd guess as a girl with self awareness it adds a new dimension when dealing with someone who's not natural at either being confident (too much or too little) to think about, but overall most of it's been part of the game for a long time anyway. If I were in the market, I'd probably use a technique or tactic, but like most of us, I enjoy playing with people for the sake of playing, so that wouldn't be unusual.

As an aside, I find one of my weird attractions is to sarcasm in a girl. Be aware that tossing a guy aside with this can just make the whole game more fun for him, which may not be your actual intent.

 

[Dashing]

If I was a girl I'd complete support that whole PUA business. It's just smoothening out flirtations and such, you're still dealing with the same person. All it means is they've learned how to deal. Not like me, I wallow in shame. The only thing I've learned from threads like these is that girls are just as bad as guys so it doesn't really matter.

 

[bellisaurius]

If I was a girl I'd complete support that whole PUA business. It's just smoothening out flirtations and such, you're still dealing with the same person. All it means is they've learned how to deal. Not like me, I wallow in shame.

Pity sex is sex too!

 

[Dashing]

Pity sex is sex too!

It's definitely the same motion!

 

[Ann Kane]

Ahhh social dynamics is so fun. I know exactly what you're referring to, and I tend to play into these games just to prove my own predictions correct (and out of curiosity). Sometimes I don't feel like it haha, it just depends.

This ESTP I know uses really good manipulative tactics, but his weakness was in revealing to me that he has the capacity to use them in the first place. So I watch him from a distance and EVERYBODY falls for his "salesman" routine, and then he comes around trying to tailor my perception of things, and I promptly laugh in his face.

guys reveal this one way or another, and its usually their ego. The small things they say that reveal how selfconscious they are. Part of them wants to brag about their successes, even the most sensitive of infjs. ''I feel gratified by...'

I enjoy reading it because I like it as a rawer countepart to more touchy-feely-we're-all-the-same-and-special-stuff. There's some valuable material in them hills in terms of general manipulation, but I often get the impression of bragadiccio that bugs me, so it's easy to OD on.

I'd guess as a girl with self awareness it adds a new dimension when dealing with someone who's not natural at either being confident (too much or too little) to think about, but overall most of it's been part of the game for a long time anyway. If I were in the market, I'd probably use a technique or tactic, but like most of us, I enjoy playing with people for the sake of playing, so that wouldn't be unusual.

As an aside, I find one of my weird attractions is to sarcasm in a girl. Be aware that tossing a guy aside with this can just make the whole game more fun for him, which may not be your actual intent.

Interesting. Yeah, i thk this xnfj i know gets baffled when my logic shuts him down, and i thk he kinda enjoys it, its like a logic spanking. Gotta remember to keep the feisty, they like that. Let them thk im riled up, when really, im just emphasizing. Then they can feel like the collected logical one. The best manipulation ever perhaps is when someone thks theyve gotten under your skin and u lost your cool

 

[Psyphon]

@Ann Kane you should have posted this on a feeler board. You're gonna get a bunch of thinker answers in here hehehe

I'm not even gonna start talking about how I play the game because I'm guessing you have a handle on that by now (I'm quite sure everyone of us has psychoanalyzed the hell outta each other by now and you all quite familiar with my possible coarse of actions), but even if I did I don't think my standpoint would be relevant to your question about a feelers way of doing things.

 

[Ann Kane]

@Ann Kane you should have posted this on a feeler board. You're gonna get a bunch of thinker answers in here hehehe

I'm not even gonna start talking about how I play the game because I'm guessing you have a handle on that by now (I'm quite sure everyone of us has psychoanalyzed the hell outta each other by now and you all quite familiar with my possible coarse of actions), but even if I did I don't think my standpoint would be relevant to your question about a feelers way of doing things.

WEll maybe you have good insight on how to apply thinker game...after all, i'll probably have more success fighting fire with fire. Bettering my own game will help me see the insufficiency in others.
have you ever encountered feeler game? of course the gender direction makes a difference. female ENTPs are more vulenrable to NF game.

when you come across subtle manipulation, for the purpose of "creating attraction", how do you turn the tables? do you call them out? ignore them? ignoring them doesn't draw the infj/p's attention, perhaps the ENFJ/P however.

Besides, you know the NFs are just going to spend the whole time proclaiming their moral highground *rolls eyes*

 

[Playful Proxy]

@Ann Kane Just remember that sometimes you could simply be being paranoid and have thrown aside a perfectly good guy. I find it interesting how the females oppose PUA so viscously and the men are attracted to it. It's a weak theory, but does that help prove its validity? I personally don't think PUA is all that big of a manipulation tactic and it just gives socially challenged guys a fighting chance with those who are natural. By going against it, you are just oppressing them further and accepting the guys who were 'born with it'. It's like rejecting some kid who wears glasses because he needs them to see and accepting a kid without glasses. It's not like it affects the fact that now, both can see.

Are you afraid that you will be placed under the magical trance of PUA and be unable to control yourself?

 

[Psyphon]

@Ann Kane Here's a few ideas:

1) get too damn smart for them. start talking about a subject WAY above their head and just drone on and on until they can't stand you

2) throw on some fake tears and start sobbing telling them about how your on your period and how hormonally/emotionally unbalanced it makes you

3) turn the game around and ask to see his phone so that you can put your number in. then instead of putting your number in start flipping through his numbers and photos and asking him questions about the people and things you find in there (especially the other girls obviously)

4) excuse yourself to go to the bathroom and then find an unsuspecting gay guy or ugly girl (whichever you think would make him more uncomfortable) and give them $20 and tell them that you'd like them to please go and flirt with him and buy him a drink and that they can get themselves one too and keep the change, but not to tell him that you sent them. Then when you go back say: "oh I can see your busy now ... have a nice night"

5) get to a busier club and just get lost on the dance floor

6) have a guy friend go out with you and tell him that you'll help him out with the girls for the night if he'll help you out with the guys for the night. Have a signal or "code word". If some guy comes around that you need to get the hell away from you then just give the signal. When he comes over he has to say a specific line though. I've found it's the most effective line to get guys to back off out of everything I've ever tried. He needs to say "That one's mine". the other guy will smile, apologize to both of you, and leave ... every time.

So there you go ... there's a few ideas.

 

[bellisaurius]

@Ann Kane Here's a few ideas:

1) get too damn smart for them. start talking about a subject WAY above their head and just drone on and on until they can't stand you

This. This, this this. It was part of one of the most entertaining evenings I ever had with a girl. I used to read a book while I was at the bar, and this girl sits next to me, and basically says I'm posing as an intellectual. I took up the challenge, and we slogged it out debating up and down from topic to topic, slogging it out like two battleships, and was -for what was like the first time in my life- actually losing in the broad based knowledge department. Then I did something I never do because I actually wanted to score a point:

I shut up.

Boy, did that ever work. She sat there fidgeting for like half an hour before she finally reopened the conversation. The rest of the night was great except for the weirdness at the end of it, when her gay friend comes over an referred to her as a him. At that point, I noticed a rather pronounced adam's apple, and was too off balance to remember to look further and get her number. Weird night.

 

[FuzzyLittleManPeach]

Are you afraid that you will be placed under the magical trance of PUA and be unable to control yourself?

It wouldn't be a trance, we would be fully aware of what is going on :wink:

 

[Ann Kane]

@Ann Kane Just remember that sometimes you could simply be being paranoid and have thrown aside a perfectly good guy. I find it interesting how the females oppose PUA so viscously and the men are attracted to it. It's a weak theory, but does that help prove its validity? I personally don't think PUA is all that big of a manipulation tactic and it just gives socially challenged guys a fighting chance with those who are natural. By going against it, you are just oppressing them further and accepting the guys who were 'born with it'. It's like rejecting some kid who wears glasses because he needs them to see and accepting a kid without glasses. It's not like it affects the fact that now, both can see.

Are you afraid that you will be placed under the magical trance of PUA and be unable to control yourself?

A worthy question. I'm not afraid of being placed under a magical trance...its a curse, and I'm already under it. I have a sort of Stockholm Syndrome. From a young age, I was under the influence of emotionally abusive males. that set a pattern that has escalated to an even worse marraige, which I know struggle to counteract the psychological effects of: the strong abuse-victim attraction to people that they can try to nurture, and the narcissists craving to take advantage of those they intuitively sense have that craving.

Its not simply a matter of logic taking over. Logic will be there, and the subconscious will laugh in its face.

I'm interested in recognizing ALL sorts of manipulative strategies, but i'm starting with PUA stuff, because it seems to cover the most relevant vulnerable area. Its extremely important I analyze the fools I run into, even when i'm backing off, because I WILL DEFINIATELY run into them again, and i need to make grasping them, a habit.

As far as decent guys just trying to talk to a girl, most guys who do, will send signals somehow. I run into guys in health food stores, etc, that all they have to do is strike up a conversation when i'm in line. For example, this one guy, all he did was ask hwo my day was. Now, if i wanted to talk, i would have made it easy for him, and if I didn't, i would have just said "fine". But i think this guys' cool, so i went with cheerfully breaking the ice. Just today, i ended up in his line again, and briefly mentioned something in the news, which led to brief convo, all because he had tried to start a conversation, now we have a precedent of conversation.

No artistry needed. Its that simple.

and im' sure he picked up on something last time, when i got so engrossed talking to him, that I forgot to finish running my card, and he had to point it out to me.

very simple, when people are real, and not self centeredly insecure

 

[Trivial]

It wouldn't be a trance, we would be fully aware of what is going on :wink:

Yes, state of high perception of his environnement. Hypnotisis theory from NLP.

I'm come from the french PUA communauty.
Don't forget the communauty get a high level of knowledge in psychology because all advanced theory is come from now NLP. Cf Ross Jeffries was a pionner.
Mystery was show off a general strategy step by step, usefull when you begin.
But with the time every man take this own style with high degree of perception, that give him a powerfull ressource for adaptation with different caracteristic of girl or boy because social dynamic is not about just pick up a girl, and don't use a routine, but play with his perception and the hyper calibrating of the people.
And for information the mbti result of PUA is usually ENTP, ENTJ and INTP

Life is a game

 

[E_N_T_P]

Yes, state of high perception of his environnement. Hypnotisis theory from NLP.

I'm come from the french PUA communauty.
Don't forget the communauty get a high level of knowledge in psychology because all advanced theory is come from now NLP. Cf Ross Jeffries was a pionner.
Mystery was show off a general strategy step by step, usefull when you begin.
But with the time every man take this own style with high degree of perception, that give him a powerfull ressource for adaptation with different caracteristic of girl or boy because social dynamic is not about just pick up a girl, and don't use a routine, but play with his perception and the hyper calibrating of the people.
And for information the mbti result of PUA is usually ENTP, ENTJ and INTP

Life is a game

How do you know MBTI types?
If you’re short, fat and ugly you have to resort to trickery to find a girlfriend, it’s no different than women showing off their body to get a man. Is it?

 

[Ann Kane]

Yes, state of high perception of his environnement. Hypnotisis theory from NLP.

I'm come from the french PUA communauty.
Don't forget the communauty get a high level of knowledge in psychology because all advanced theory is come from now NLP. Cf Ross Jeffries was a pionner.
Mystery was show off a general strategy step by step, usefull when you begin.
But with the time every man take this own style with high degree of perception, that give him a powerfull ressource for adaptation with different caracteristic of girl or boy because social dynamic is not about just pick up a girl, and don't use a routine, but play with his perception and the hyper calibrating of the people.
And for information the mbti result of PUA is usually ENTP, ENTJ and INTP

Life is a game

Interesting. What do you mean hyper-calibrating of people? Can you elaborate?

 

[fengshui222]

And for information the mbti result of PUA is usually ENTP, ENTJ and INTP

really interesting! who would be a PUA ENTP ?
is it what you think or what PUA said about there MBTI results?
Anyway, I highly suspect mystery is an ENTP, but i could be wrong.

 

[Trivial]

How do you know MBTI types?
If you’re short, fat and ugly you have to resort to trickery to find a girlfriend, it’s no different than women showing off their body to get a man. Is it?

Limited thing, girls doesn't really care about your body, and girl don't want to see her as "I show you my body" is a shield to get off uninterresting man, who doesn't see her as a woman, but just a "hot dog".
It's about a french forum of seduction were the goal is more personnal development, so people discuss about this MBTI profil.
Total population 161 100,00%


NT 103 63,98% NF 44 27,33% ST 8 4,97% SJ 6 3,73%

NTP 68 42,24% :crazy: we rule the game! Introduce yourself on the hidden way...
Interresting to see how people is predominate by Ne and the perception.
It's quite fun to be around other ENTP PUA in a pub. We don't go to pick up but prefer analysis, speak about theory and philosophy, and sometimes girls.
Very passive ahah

Interesting. What do you mean hyper-calibrating of people? Can you elaborate?

To be a good PUA, its important to know a lot about the theory, technical step but the background is almost the point of pick up: Body language and cold reading. That's give us the beginning of the game to introduce a "hook".
Synergology theory is use now to understand the unconscient and predict the attitude of the people, also NLP with vakog. PUA notice quickly pattern and variation in this environnement as a feeback for his perception and adaptation.
Yes, i can elaborate when i am on the field or social situation.

really interesting! who would be a PUA ENTP ?
is it what you think or what PUA said about there MBTI results?
Anyway, I highly suspect mystery is an ENTP, but i could be wrong.

I don't know, perhaps Mystery is a ENTP or ENFP, he has a high F and go sometime withdraw. I think Neil Strauss would be a INTP for exemple, he is a writer.
We don't use the term of PUA in France, because the goal is more lyfestyle development by seduction. But the MBTI result is very accurate, and quite fun to see how we are intellectual type and discuss about new or elaborate theory, and he is true we speak so much....

 

[E_N_T_P]

Limited thing, girls doesn't really care about your body, and girl don't want to see her as "I show you my body" is a shield to get off uninterresting man, who doesn't see her as a woman, but just a "hot dog".
It's about a french forum of seduction were the goal is more personnal development, so people discuss about this MBTI profil.
Total population 161 100,00%


NT 103 63,98% NF 44 27,33% ST 8 4,97% SJ 6 3,73%

NTP 68 42,24% :crazy: we rule the game! Introduce yourself on the hidden way...
Interresting to see how people is predominate by Ne and the perception.
It's quite fun to be around other ENTP PUA in a pub. We don't go to pick up but prefer analysis, speak about theory and philosophy, and sometimes girls.
Very passive ahah

....

Thank you. Seems to me that ENXXs are naturals with women, so I bet they just enjoy playing the game and showing off. Women are emotional, so they can be manipulated. But they’re irrational and thus unpredictable, so you use the ultimate weapon -- Ne. Yeah?