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Yea I am pretty sure it is circumstantial, especially since this is kinda normal to not hear from her for a while, and I just need to understand that; she's at school, she works, etc. Plus we don't text, we talk over facebook. Often enough I don't see her online, or message seen, for a week at a time.

She also gets very caught up in the things she is doing which I've heard is an INTP attribute(?). For example once she hadn't replied for 3 weeks than I sent her a little message, or something, and she got back to me like nothing happened and felt bad for having forgotten to reply. Still don't see how someone wouldn't have the time to respond with even a short message "I want to but I am to busy so I can't". Then again she doesn't really message like that and I've never said that I appreciate even that type of response.

I don't like to message multiple times in a row so if she never replied it leaves me hanging as to when I might talk to her again. Although is it an annoyance to get multiple message in a row? I don't necessarily find it annoying but I know if your busy and caught up in something it could be?
It is very INTP to forget to reply to things. I get very caught up in things, too, to the neglect of other aspects of my life. If it's normal behaviour for her, I expect you have nothing to worry about.

If I were you, I'd talk to her about it. She probably has no idea that other personalities want more communication, more often - to us not talking to someone for a while doesn't mean we're not thinking about them, and I think we don't realise other people don't see it the same way. For me, it really was something I had to consciously learn - that I should talk to people regularly in order to maintain relations - and I still have some trouble with it now. I'm having trouble thinking of how you could phrase it, but just tell her that you'd like it if she could shoot you a message a bit more often... and you get she's busy, but you'd like it if she could tell you when she's unavailable rather than leaving plans hanging in the air. It probably hasn't occurred to her. If you get the tone right she probably won't take offense. I mean, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.

As for multiple messages - in terms of the awful games that run through dating, it's kind of a faux pas to send two in a row... not so much because it's annoying to receive, but because it gives the impression of there being more interest on one side than the other. "She who texts first loses", and all that. But in this case, it sounds like she's forgetful - and a second notification will jog her memory. I think that if you're trying to make plans and need a clear yes/no response and aren't getting one, it's totally fine to send multiple messages.
 

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If I'm interested in someone there is no way I don't get back to them, though I am very conscious of how and when I do it so as not to seem overeager. The text waiting game is definitely there too like @Effy said. And the more the more interested one caves, the less likely the other party initiates because you'll seem like a puppy after a while.
Though with friends I'm waaaay more casual about getting back to them. They know me, I know them and it's nothing personal. I've got an ISFJ who has probably left me 5 voicemails over the past two months about nothing in particular. If it wass omething specific I'd be more likely to get back to him.
 

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It is very INTP to forget to reply to things. I get very caught up in things, too, to the neglect of other aspects of my life. If it's normal behaviour for her, I expect you have nothing to worry about.

If I were you, I'd talk to her about it. She probably has no idea that other personalities want more communication, more often - to us not talking to someone for a while doesn't mean we're not thinking about them, and I think we don't realise other people don't see it the same way. For me, it really was something I had to consciously learn - that I should talk to people regularly in order to maintain relations - and I still have some trouble with it now. I'm having trouble thinking of how you could phrase it, but just tell her that you'd like it if she could shoot you a message a bit more often... and you get she's busy, but you'd like it if she could tell you when she's unavailable rather than leaving plans hanging in the air. It probably hasn't occurred to her. If you get the tone right she probably won't take offense. I mean, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.
Thanks, I think I will bring it up with her in time, once she messages me back, hah. Still I often feel like my thought process is "I want, I want I want". I just need to balance that with "I understand where your at". Although I don't feel so bad because I now remember she got after me once for being hard to contact when we were making plans.

:tongue:

Though with friends I'm waaaay more casual about getting back to them. They know me, I know them and it's nothing personal. I've got an ISFJ who has probably left me 5 voicemails over the past two months about nothing in particular. If it wass omething specific I'd be more likely to get back to him.
We are friends and so far I've usually let her be when I've messaged, unless I have something interesting to show her. Past action gives no reason that I would want any differently and I can see her just being causal with it.
 

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ETA: I text back to someone when I'm interested. Although I play the 'do not reply too fast' game too, no one wants to look desperate.
That's like the biggest attraction builder ever. The longer you wait to get back to them, the more they wonder about what is he/she up to?
You'll start thinking "What did I do wrong? Did I say something? Why aren't they getting back to me? I just want an answer one way or another," then they respond and you go through the roof even if it's just a "Hey, I've been busy. What are you up?"
 

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That's like the biggest attraction builder ever. The longer you wait to get back to them, the more they wonder about what is he/she up to?
You'll start thinking "What did I do wrong? Did I say something? Why aren't they getting back to me? I just want an answer one way or another," then they respond and you go through the roof even if it's just a "Hey, I've been busy. What are you up?"
Truuuue. Except when somebody else turns up and starts paying you more attention at the same time as the first person's keeping you waiting. Young people are fickle. Myself included.

I really do noooot have the text game down pat. The push/pull is something I really can't get the hang of.
 

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That's like the biggest attraction builder ever. The longer you wait to get back to them, the more they wonder about what is he/she up to?
You'll start thinking "What did I do wrong? Did I say something? Why aren't they getting back to me? I just want an answer one way or another," then they respond and you go through the roof even if it's just a "Hey, I've been busy. What are you up?"
If someone plays that game with me too long I'll turn away from them. I'm not desperate for someone who doesn't enjoy my presence, and I don't see the logic or appeal personally in hiding their liking for me.

Could be because of a shitty experience with the silent treatment that went right into emotional abuse, but I really find that sort of thing highly unattractive and even personally offensive.

I'm fine with people not responding to me for days or weeks, but then I'll assume we're just contacts who talk from time to time, NOT intimate friends.
 

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If someone plays that game with me too long I'll turn away from them. I'm not desperate for someone who doesn't enjoy my presence, and I don't see the logic or appeal personally in hiding their liking for me.

Could be because of a shitty experience with the silent treatment that went right into emotional abuse, but I really find that sort of thing highly unattractive and even personally offensive.

I'm fine with people not responding to me for days or weeks, but then I'll assume we're just contacts who talk from time to time, NOT intimate friends.
In dating, especially, regular contact is much more important. If it's not there, either they've moved on or I'm going to.
 

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Truuuue. Except when somebody else turns up and starts paying you more attention at the same time as the first person's keeping you waiting. Young people are fickle. Myself included.

I really do noooot have the text game down pat. The push/pull is something I really can't get the hang of.
Texting ruined everything. No one is too busy not to text unless they're in Antarctica or something. And you can only use that excuse once.
We need some Te sprinkled in when it comes to dating.
"Do you like me? If I don't hear from you by 6pm you will never hear from me again,
Regards"
 

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If someone plays that game with me too long I'll turn away from them. I'm not desperate for someone who doesn't enjoy my presence, and I don't see the logic or appeal personally in hiding their liking for me.

Could be because of a shitty experience with the silent treatment that went right into emotional abuse, but I really find that sort of thing highly unattractive and even personally offensive.
I'll play it a little with a shy girl, because they are tougher to read and I still need more info. I can tell if they're at least somewhat interested but I'm terrible at taking it to the next step otherwise. It's not a matter of forcing someone to like you but knowing when to make your move. Nothing's worse than going for the kiss and getting ear instead of face.
 

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Considering it's taken me almost a week to come back to my reply/update, I feel this is a perfect demonstration of what a few of you were just posting about. Especially since, for me, this was/is an emotional thing. I don't know about other INTPs, but I tend to fight with forgetfulness or a lack of focus on things that stir up frustration and a sense of difficulty. Not the fun challenge sort of difficulty, but "ARGH, this no worky right!" sort of difficulty. Despite a lot of rounding out on my personality over the years, I still find emotions very difficult to sit and be with, let alone articulate.

I've been doing a bit of reading and thinking this week since my post, and have read the replies a few times to just process things in.

1) MBTI for me has become a system that gives me vocabulary and insight into how I and other people work and how we can mesh. It's made me feel less 'weird' if still sort of rare-ish, and most of all it's allowed me to feel more appreciative of other people's strengths without feeling like I need to be the same in order to respect the differences. It's allowed me to see that there are many kinds of ways in which people are internally consistent, logical and prosocial, even if it can be hard to see the sense in another person operating so differently from yourself.
It's also made it rather clear to me that some types of people I'm simply more likely to share view modes and goals and values with than with others.
This was so well put I wanted to QFT. I've only put a toe in the water on MBTI knowledge, but it's already started to feel like the Rosetta Stone for people.

As to what you wrote for #2 plus what I've read over time in this thread, it got me thinking that my relationships have been rapid by INTP standards. I've never had a relationship build over a course of years. It's usually weeks, months if the guy is "patient." I'm also very choosy, but that's been regarded as a flaw, so I have seen it as such until very recently.

1. Well, I know which traits to expect and which ones I like the most for a relationship and how to handle them. I kept an ENFP happy for a loong time except on the social hierarchy and adventure part I guess. But I was a sympathetic listener and handled her mood swings like a champ, the togetherness, her constant change of mind on what to do, and basically every emotional need. I knew what to do. And it helped me understand what I did not liked about it too.
So now I know I want the traits emboided by NFs, most likely xNFJs. I know what tradeoffs I will have to make and had time to decide if it is worth it or not (it is). Made me realize I look for someone that complements me, with all the work and compromises it requires, and not a mirror who will be comfortable to be with and pretty much fail at the same stuff.
The INTP profile also taught me about myself as I simply hadn't paid atention to my inner self that much. Keirsey's book was like reading the user's guide on myself, kindof.

2. As I replied on 1, I have accepted the tradeoffs. YES, I still feel the ambivalence but I conciously remind myself of my decisions regarding making room in my life for "her" and why I made them. Hence the importance of knowing this stuff for self awareness.
You're a brave soul. I have 2 ENFPs in my life, one as family, one as an amazingly great friend. I was also raised with a very strong xNFJ influence, both toxic and healthy (which is contributing to my current confusion, I'm sure). Maybe it's just too much NFs in my life already, but as much as I love 'em to death I couldn't be in a relationship with one. You nailed what it's like being close to an ENFP though, lol. I like that they're agreeable to getting their brains picked. The ENFPs in my life have helped me understand a lot of emotional patterns that were otherwise foreign to me and I appreciate how they can be protective if they think I'm being mistreated.

Would you mind telling me the name of that book? I looked it up and saw a number of books. Is it the Please Understand Me series?
 

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That's like the biggest attraction builder ever. The longer you wait to get back to them, the more they wonder about what is he/she up to?
You'll start thinking "What did I do wrong? Did I say something? Why aren't they getting back to me? I just want an answer one way or another," then they respond and you go through the roof even if it's just a "Hey, I've been busy. What are you up?"
The thing here is using a reasonable 'silence window'. No way I would let a week pass between their text and my response. I don't want to look desperate, but I must appear interested. One night seem to be the best IMO (so that my silence may elicit questions and anxiety and perhaps he may fall asleep thinking about me or who knows, maybe even dream of me, mwahaha). Maybe a whole day, at the most. But days, weeks? No way. If I'm interested, I'm interested.

Seriously it's so much easier now, with texting. You can manage the tempo, take the time to use the exact words, and you don't have to let your voice be heard (it may give you up). I am old so I lived though those years when you had to call, for real, OMG! on the phone!!!. Now *that* was nerve wrecking, especially as a teenager just getting started on the dating game. Not just because of the way the other part would react but all those other factors: What if his mom picks up the phone? What if someone else is listening on the line?What if I stutter or mess up my words? What if my voice sounds awful?, etc.
Younger generations should consider themselves lucky. [/old fart comment]
 

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Seriously it's so much easier now, with texting. You can manage the tempo, take the time to use the exact words, and you don't have to let your voice be heard (it may give you up). I am old so I lived though those years when you had to call, for real, OMG! on the phone!!!. Now *that* was nerve wrecking, especially as a teenager just getting started on the dating game. Not just because of the way the other part would react but all those other factors: What if his mom picks up the phone? What if someone else is listening on the line?What if I stutter or mess up my words? What if my voice sounds awful?, etc.
Younger generations should consider themselves lucky. [/old fart comment]
Haha, yes exactly. Land lines were scary. Especially if you got dad.
Deep voice: "HELLO!?"
Me: "Huh, huh hi is Amy there?"
Deep voice: "WHO IS THIS? "
Me: "Muh muh . . Matt."
Deep voice: "AMY HAS NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE NAMED MATT. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYONE AMY KNOWS. YOU'RE NOT FOOLING NO ONE. NO ONE TALKS TO MY DAUGHTER. NO ONE! *loads shotgun*
Me: *click*
 

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As to what you wrote for #2 plus what I've read over time in this thread, it got me thinking that my relationships have been rapid by INTP standards. I've never had a relationship build over a course of years. It's usually weeks, months if the guy is "patient." I'm also very choosy, but that's been regarded as a flaw, so I have seen it as such until very recently.
Hm, I should note that the close friendship developed pretty fast, from having just met to talking every day taking a day to a week. From there things progressed to disclosing rather personal things quite quickly, too, a few months at most, moving from 'we roleplay together and have fun' to 'we're becoming close personal friends'.

The 'and now we're dating' is almost a formality after that that happens once both parties feel like it's a good time to officially commit, by then we'd already been very close for a long time.
 

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Texting ruined everything. No one is too busy not to text unless they're in Antarctica or something. And you can only use that excuse once.
We need some Te sprinkled in when it comes to dating.
"Do you like me? If I don't hear from you by 6pm you will never hear from me again,
Regards"
Agreed. Agreed. I really think F-types have a huge advantage when it comes to dating and relationships.

I really have a hard time playing coy for propriety's sake and not being super blunt. If I've been seeing a guy but haven't heard from him in a little while, and I want to see him again, my natural inclination is to want to message him suggesting we do exactly that. Not even the small talk, just straight-up "we should hang out". The potential payoff outweighs the potential loss. If he reacts favourably and is still interested, I get what I want; if he doesn't respond or turns me down, I don't get what I want; if I don't act at all, I still don't get what I want. If he's no longer interested the result of sending a single text is exactly the same as not sending a text at all, so it seems obvious to me that the option working in my favour is to be proactive.

Exceeeept that's not conventional wisdom, at least when you're a woman. If the guy isn't making an effort and you approach him, you lose face and risk coming across like a floozy, even though the motivation is very straightforward. The utilitarian kind of approach is apparently too forward. So lately I've packed it in and let sleeping dogs lie. It's deeply frustrating. It feels completely wrong not to make obvious moves towards my own objectives, where those obvious moves exist.
 

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Haha, yes exactly. Land lines were scary. Especially if you got dad.
Deep voice: "HELLO!?"
Me: "Huh, huh hi is Amy there?"
Deep voice: "WHO IS THIS? "
Me: "Muh muh . . Matt."
Deep voice: "AMY HAS NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE NAMED MATT. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYONE AMY KNOWS. YOU'RE NOT FOOLING NO ONE. NO ONE TALKS TO MY DAUGHTER. NO ONE! *loads shotgun*
Me: *click*
Sounds like an ExTJ. :tongue:

My day has been made. That made me LOL. Even though my friends' parents were never like that, and I'm not a guy so I never had that situation with their dads, I still had that equivalent of fear. Just, "Oh noes, I have to talk to someone I don't know and do this thing called 'make a good impression.'"
 

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I'll play it a little with a shy girl, because they are tougher to read and I still need more info. I can tell if they're at least somewhat interested but I'm terrible at taking it to the next step otherwise. It's not a matter of forcing someone to like you but knowing when to make your move. Nothing's worse than going for the kiss and getting ear instead of face.
^This. I feel quiet the same way when it comes to making the next move. If only it was normal for communication to be more open it would make things easier in this situations.


I really have a hard time playing coy for propriety's sake and not being super blunt. If I've been seeing a guy but haven't heard from him in a little while, and I want to see him again, my natural inclination is to want to message him suggesting we do exactly that. Not even the small talk, just straight-up "we should hang out". The potential payoff outweighs the potential loss. If he reacts favourably and is still interested, I get what I want; if he doesn't respond or turns me down, I don't get what I want; if I don't act at all, I still don't get what I want. If he's no longer interested the result of sending a single text is exactly the same as not sending a text at all, so it seems obvious to me that the option working in my favour is to be proactive.
That is a really good way of thinking about. I need to think about it like this more often.


Exceeeept that's not conventional wisdom, at least when you're a woman. If the guy isn't making an effort and you approach him, you lose face and risk coming across like a floozy, even though the motivation is very straightforward. The utilitarian kind of approach is apparently too forward. So lately I've packed it in and let sleeping dogs lie. It's deeply frustrating. It feels completely wrong not to make obvious moves towards my own objectives, where those obvious moves exist.
There's also things that happen like in my situation. The last guy the girl was getting to know basically ignored her when she took initiative. I've seen her take initiative with me in the past but not often and other times it's covered up. She was really hurt and now acts wary to take initiative.
 

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Agreed. Agreed. I really think F-types have a huge advantage when it comes to dating and relationships.

I really have a hard time playing coy for propriety's sake and not being super blunt. If I've been seeing a guy but haven't heard from him in a little while, and I want to see him again, my natural inclination is to want to message him suggesting we do exactly that. Not even the small talk, just straight-up "we should hang out". The potential payoff outweighs the potential loss. If he reacts favourably and is still interested, I get what I want; if he doesn't respond or turns me down, I don't get what I want; if I don't act at all, I still don't get what I want. If he's no longer interested the result of sending a single text is exactly the same as not sending a text at all, so it seems obvious to me that the option working in my favour is to be proactive.

Exceeeept that's not conventional wisdom, at least when you're a woman. If the guy isn't making an effort and you approach him, you lose face and risk coming across like a floozy, even though the motivation is very straightforward. The utilitarian kind of approach is apparently too forward. So lately I've packed it in and let sleeping dogs lie. It's deeply frustrating. It feels completely wrong not to make obvious moves towards my own objectives, where those obvious moves exist.
I still facepalm when female friends of mind get flustered over this new crush of theirs and I find out they've never even made their existance known to the guy and are convinced they 'shouldn't'. It's quite pathetic. 'Oh no I'm in such agony I THINK he looked at me oh no' 'Just say hello?' 'OMG no what no I can't'.

I find straightforwardness has so far always worked out for me. Onlookers can fuck themselves upside down, what they think doesn't matter, and if the person I approach reacts unfavourably, then they're not the sort of person I'd consort with anyway. The good ones don't mind, and I perosnally perceive it as quite sexist from the female side of the world to assume all guys need to be the ones to summon up the courage and make the first move.

It's unfair to assume the woman has to wait, well, it's just as unfair to assume the man has the 'duty' to be ballsy and can't get away with being insecure or doubtful or shy.

In my utalitarian strategy of finding someone who'll be my equal, it's turned out quite splendidly to 'be myself' quite unabashedly. I don't have the energy to pretend, and I don't ask them to put up a front either.
 

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You're a brave soul. I have 2 ENFPs in my life, one as family, one as an amazingly great friend. I was also raised with a very strong xNFJ influence, both toxic and healthy (which is contributing to my current confusion, I'm sure). Maybe it's just too much NFs in my life already, but as much as I love 'em to death I couldn't be in a relationship with one. You nailed what it's like being close to an ENFP though, lol. I like that they're agreeable to getting their brains picked. The ENFPs in my life have helped me understand a lot of emotional patterns that were otherwise foreign to me and I appreciate how they can be protective if they think I'm being mistreated.

Would you mind telling me the name of that book? I looked it up and saw a number of books. Is it the Please Understand Me series?
The trick for me is that I can do it with just one person, my SO. If there is a romantic interest I have the motivation to handle them, but if the same stuff comes from any other person I am out. But I will agree that ENFPs can be draining.
Plus I never take my SO for granted so for me is like I am always somewhat competing with other guys no matter how loyal she is. That is a powerful motivation, no matter how confident I am about the relationship.
Plus, come on, there is a lot of good to be had from a loyal and cooperative good girl that is kept happy and satisfied, for as long as she does not take you for granted, that is.

The book was "Please Understand Me II", basically a long list of deliberately exagerated stereotypes in type profiles as Keirsey does not consider functions, just basic observable I/E, S/N, T/F, J/P dimensions and for good reason imho. Every time I see people quoting their Ti and Fe and the like I cringe. But that is another debate. The book is old by now, it was just my introduction to the "field". You can read the type profiles everywhere on the net now, so do not bother with it.
 

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I still facepalm when female friends of mind get flustered over this new crush of theirs and I find out they've never even made their existance known to the guy and are convinced they 'shouldn't'. It's quite pathetic. 'Oh no I'm in such agony I THINK he looked at me oh no' 'Just say hello?' 'OMG no what no I can't'.

I find straightforwardness has so far always worked out for me. Onlookers can fuck themselves upside down, what they think doesn't matter, and if the person I approach reacts unfavourably, then they're not the sort of person I'd consort with anyway. The good ones don't mind, and I perosnally perceive it as quite sexist from the female side of the world to assume all guys need to be the ones to summon up the courage and make the first move.

It's unfair to assume the woman has to wait, well, it's just as unfair to assume the man has the 'duty' to be ballsy and can't get away with being insecure or doubtful or shy.

In my utalitarian strategy of finding someone who'll be my equal, it's turned out quite splendidly to 'be myself' quite unabashedly. I don't have the energy to pretend, and I don't ask them to put up a front either.
I don't understand the 'crush' thing in and of itself. I haven't had a crush since I was a teenager. I guess the idea of having romantic feelings for someone one hasn't had any romantic interaction with - or hell, maybe any interaction with - is very strange to me. At that point you're into your idea of the person, not the person themselves - and it seems very strange to assume you know things about a person when you don't really know anything about them at all.

I just meet somebody I find attractive, ascertain through body language whether that's mutual, come on to 'em, swap numbers, we go out, we see each other again or we don't, things follow to the logical conclusion. I don't get the point of pining from afar and never doing anything about it, or even the mindset behind it, unless you subconsciously don't want to be dating anyone and it's all some kind of displacement activity.
 
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