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I kind of thought the quotes around "nice guys" implied that they really were pricks, so I think they would fall into this category.

As opposed to truly nice guys, "nice guys" pretend to be the genuine article, and when you get through the candy coating you find the tiny little prick inside waiting to get out.

P.s. they also make it harder for real nice guys because they convince women that nice guys are really jerks and on top of that, dishonest about it.
Nah, "nice guys" give pricks a bad name. Pricks are more upfront about their motivations and intentions. You know where you stand with a prick. "Nice guys" are more like fraudsters, akin to a snake-oil salesman. They are selling you "a nice guy" but under that "nice guy" shell is just a whiny, confused, insecure, little bitch who gets their kicks when playing with the emotions of other people.
 

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Nah, "nice guys" give pricks a bad name. Pricks are more upfront about their motivations and intentions. You know where you stand with a prick. "Nice guys" are more like fraudsters, akin to a snake-oil salesman. They are selling you "a nice guy" but under that "nice guy" shell is just a whiny, confused, insecure, little bitch who gets their kicks when playing with the emotions of other people.
You and I have different definitions of "prick." someone who's up front about their intentions, even if they're blatantly shallow and /or perverted, is still being respectful enoug to allow a woman to decide for herself whether she wants to play along. That's not being a prick. For me, a prick is someone who is disrespectful top to bottom with no qualms about leading a woman to believe anything he wants her to to get what HE wants.
 
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You and I have different definitions of "prick." someone who's up front about their intentions, even if they're blatantly shallow and /or perverted, is still being respectful enoug to allow a woman to decide for herself whether she wants to play along. That's not being a prick. For me, a prick is someone who is disrespectful top to bottom with no qualms about leading a woman to believe anything he wants her to to get what HE wants.
Yes, but pricks are under no illusion that they are "nice guys." They embrace their "prickiness" and women who end up with pricks understand all that being with a prick entails. The actions of a prick and "nice guy" might be the same, but the "nice guy" actually believes he's a "nice guy," and the "nice guy" image he projects adds a malicious element to the deceit that is perpetuated. "Nice guy" fraud in a different context: Investing your money with Bernie Madoff because of his reputation and image as being a responsible, legitimate, financial guru. The level of manipulation exacerbates the fraud as opposed to the second scenario: investing your money with a prick. I think a prick in this context would be organized crime. If you invested money with a mob boss and got screwed over, this could be expected on some level and wouldn't come as a shock. Hence, dealing with pricks, it's easier to predict certain actions, motivations, and outcomes as opposed to "nice guys." I realize I just went on some non-sensical tangent.....
 

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Perfect example of how context matters. If I were that chick, I would be supremely pissed that someone directed tat song at me (especially if I were wearing a white dress!!!). If he subsequently came up and said exactly what you said there, it's so endearingly adorable I would be in a puddle in the floor in minutes. That is so cute.
Intentions should be true... but actions can be a bit more variable.

It may have been a genuine mistake or perhaps it was just a plan for breaking the ice... knowing that I would have an easier time to recover from something somewhat more melodramatic than if she was offended and went on the defensive for simply approaching her directly.

While I'd like to pretend I was as much of a cynical and manipulative bastard back then... if I could have gotten to the exit without crossing her path, I probably would have fled the scene and made a vow never to return. Now in my recovery attempt, I might have layered on a little thick (too much time reading poetry, classic novels and watching old movies) but the intention and the sentiment was true... and it opened up the doorway to having a real conversation with much of the tension and anxiety out of the way, for both of us, I believe.


Though karaoke bars and open mic nights are more manipulative games... if only as a byproduct of stepping outside of their regular routines and lives, to perform, to adopt another persona or to let all their masks fall to be themselves without the pressures of being someone else... especially at those venues that serve alcohol... You don't have to be a great singer, just emotive... and you chameleons know you can fake it as well as she can. ;x

neither the guppies nor the sharks do that well in the social pool... but I've lost my train of thought as now I've got an urge to play e.v.o.
 

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Yes, but pricks are under no illusion that they are "nice guys." They embrace their "prickiness" and women who end up with pricks understand all that being with a prick entails. The actions of a prick and "nice guy" might be the same, but the "nice guy" actually believes he's a "nice guy," and the "nice guy" image he projects adds a malicious element to the deceit that is perpetuated. "Nice guy" fraud in a different context: Investing your money with Bernie Madoff because of his reputation and image as being a responsible, legitimate, financial guru. The level of manipulation exacerbates the fraud as opposed to the second scenario: investing your money with a prick. I think a prick in this context would be organized crime. If you invested money with a mob boss and got screwed over, this could be expected on some level and wouldn't come as a shock. Hence, dealing with pricks, it's easier to predict certain actions, motivations, and outcomes as opposed to "nice guys." I realize I just went on some non-sensical tangent.....
No, analogies really help me a lot. I see where you're coming from. I guess I figure if you invest your money with a loan shark who is up front about being a loan shark and you get burned, shame on you and I feel no pity for you. But if you invest with a Madoff, the blame is squarely on his shoulders--you couldn't have seen that coming, since he presented all the right faces to you and lied beautifully.

So I guess the distinction matters to me at the moment of consoling a victim of prickness, or thinking they should have known better.
 

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Though @Rift's analogy about sharks and guppies has a lot of truth to it... Sharks are lonely too.
 

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Yes, but pricks are under no illusion that they are "nice guys." They embrace their "prickiness" and women who end up with pricks understand all that being with a prick entails. The actions of a prick and "nice guy" might be the same, but the "nice guy" actually believes he's a "nice guy," and the "nice guy" image he projects adds a malicious element to the deceit that is perpetuated. "Nice guy" fraud in a different context: Investing your money with Bernie Madoff because of his reputation and image as being a responsible, legitimate, financial guru. The level of manipulation exacerbates the fraud as opposed to the second scenario: investing your money with a prick. I think a prick in this context would be organized crime. If you invested money with a mob boss and got screwed over, this could be expected on some level and wouldn't come as a shock. Hence, dealing with pricks, it's easier to predict certain actions, motivations, and outcomes as opposed to "nice guys." I realize I just went on some non-sensical tangent.....
Does the same philosophy extend to the female equivalents?

Or do they have more room for redemption...

Or are they just damsels of bad circumstances waiting to be rescued by a real nice guy...
 

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My thoughts exactly whenever I ask out a stripper and the unusual high that sometimes happens when a women actually pays attention to my existence wears off. I really need to find a way to get better control of myself in these situations.
crude but effective...

masturbation reduces anxiety and in most scenarios brings clarity to the mind.
 

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Does the same philosophy extend to the female equivalents?

Or do they have more room for redemption...

Or are they just damsels of bad circumstances waiting to be rescued by a real nice guy...
That's a topic I don't even know how to begin to discuss. I'm not sure what the female equivalent of a "nice guy" would be. I personally don't deal with bullshit so have never been the victim( clears throat). I like to think I know what I'm jumping into before getting involved with a lady. However, the truth is I have no idea. It's impossible sometimes to know what to expect. I think it's easier defining the "nice guy" because all the stories of broken-hearted females have shown a pattern of behavior that characterizes a particular type of guy:"the nice guy." I think women are just relegated by men as "bitches." "Bitch" covers a lot of ground.
 

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Does the same philosophy extend to the female equivalents?

Or do they have more room for redemption...

Or are they just damsels of bad circumstances waiting to be rescued by a real nice guy...
That is an excellent point, rift. The females who do this crap are my definition of bitches. That also includes gold-diggs and drama queens who start stuff just to prove that their man is truly hooked. I think it's equally bad when women do it, but it's a tough call-- on the one hand, women are sort of a little more vulnerable emotionally to sharks, so it hurts more in one sense. On the other hand, men who are victimized by women get no support because they're SUPPOSED to like sex any way they get it, and the women have an upper hand through sexual manipulation the same way the men do with emotional manipulation.

Plus, as @downsouf pointed out, bitches seem to have more tools of manipulation in their toolbox. Bitches are CREATIVE when it comes to tearing a man down.
 

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Does the same philosophy extend to the female equivalents?

Or do they have more room for redemption...

Or are they just damsels of bad circumstances waiting to be rescued by a real nice guy...
Yes, there are plenty of predatory, mean, opportunistic, and/or crazy women out there in the dating pool, for sure. I lived with one of the absolute worst when I first moved to Brooklyn.

That is an excellent point, rift. The females who do this crap are my definition of bitches. That also includes gold-diggs and drama queens who start stuff just to prove that their man is truly hooked. I think it's equally bad when women do it, but it's a tough call-- on the one hand, women are sort of a little more vulnerable emotionally to sharks, so it hurts more in one sense. On the other hand, men who are victimized by women get no support because they're SUPPOSED to like sex any way they get it, and the women have an upper hand through sexual manipulation the same way the men do with emotional manipulation.

Plus, as @downsouf pointed out, bitches seem to have more tools of manipulation in their toolbox. Bitches are CREATIVE when it comes to tearing a man down.
I disagree with this. This subforum alone is all the proof I need that many men are easy targets to emotional manipulation.
 

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I disagree with this. This subforum alone is all the proof I need that many men are easy targets to emotional manipulation.
I would agree with that about this subforum; however I sort of see these guys as a fairly small subset of the overall male population--even in terms of MBTI typology, say, but also in terms of the experiences described here.

Then again, it could just be that most men hide their emotional vulnerability in general.

Edit: and thinking about it again, even if these guys ARE a small subset of the male population, they are probably disproportionately targeted by power- or money-hungry bitches. So I see your point.
 

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I disagree with this. This subforum alone is all the proof I need that many men are easy targets to emotional manipulation.
Simply post up a video to some worthwhile cause and ask us to press the Paypal Donate button and we'd be more than happy to oblige with with that request. For realz! no questions axed.
 

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In NYC, there are girls who take extroverted, successful, confident guys for thousands and thousands of dollars. On the regular. And laugh about it after the guys divorce their wives and they unceremoniously dump the guys.
 

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I would agree with that about this subforum; however I sort of see these guys as a fairly small subset of the overall male population--even in terms of MBTI typology, say, but also in terms of the experiences described here.

Then again, it could just be that most men hide their emotional vulnerability in general.
I almost wish I have been the victim of emotional manipulation. Obviously, I'm joking, but to actually care for someone that much to suspend judgment and get swayed emotionally seems almost romantic if it weren't so sad and stupid.
 

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I almost wish I have been the victim of emotional manipulation. Obviously, I'm joking, but to actually care for someone that much to suspend judgment and get swayed emotionally seems almost romantic if it weren't so sad and stupid.
No sir, you don't... not especially when you part with Scrooge McDucks' Number One Dime.
 

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In NYC, there are girls who take extroverted, successful, confident guys for thousands and thousands of dollars. On the regular. And laugh about it after the guys divorce their wives and they unceremoniously dump the guys.
I may lead a quite sheltered life in this respect, since none of the men I know really have any money. What I tend to see is just down home crazy women looking for someone to impose some kind of external stability on their bizarre mental state and find that it fails only after the guy in question has been turned inside-out and hung out to dry like a wet dishrag no one wants anymore. Then the women run around telling everyone how badly the man treated them, garnering sympathy from the next man who thinks he can fix her and so it goes. :(
 
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