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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just curious because I've never really thought about it until now, but does weak control of Se make one impulsively take on too many hobbies /activities or otherwise put too much on their plate because they just want to be able to "do everything" - particularly by themselves?

This is true with me, I have more interests than I feel most sane people would care to take on.
I also feel a strong desire to maximize the quality of any area of my life I feel lacking in, otherwise I start to get insecure. Like I'm not being the best I could theoretically be.
If I see something that seriously impresses me I often think to myself "wow, I wish I could do that.... wait... maybe I could..!" (Oh god... spare me brain....)
I feel a desire to do everything (a bit of an exaggeration but it feels like that) and take it on all on my own. I think I partly want to prove to myself and maybe others that one can do anything if they put their mind to it.

I have this big ideal in my head I want to reach, I see a way better self, but I see it requiring multiple disciplines to achieve and a lot of knowledge that I do not have, I get overwhelmed often because there's too much data, not enough time in the day and too many conflicting points of focus that want my attention. As much as I love my interests, I hate not being able to fully focus on one of them without feeling like I'm ignoring things...

I know Ne can go to infinity and beyond with generating ideas and abstractions. So is Se similar, but with more concrete stuff like activities and fact gathering?


To summarize.

My imagination regarding the future being all like

How my mind feels in the present day to day reality.

External Result:
 

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I can't see your pics since I've blocked pics but relative to the inferior function, it's always in opposition to the dominant function and will randomly erupt in an unconscious manner. IF a function comes naturally to you where it manifests the majority of time, it might be worthwhile to reevaluate your type. On the other hand, if it only manifests when you're relaxing or when your dominant function strategy isn't working, then look into types with Se as tertiary/relief function to the dom.
 

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I think you nailed it. Also guilty of similar things.

From hearing other Se doms speak of it... They say they like novel experiences which can lead to reckless impulsive behaviour.

Ne would then crave novel ideas.

But for Ni Doms, we ultimately want to give order to that Ne novel idea thing, and want to go deeper (NiTi?) which then creates the overwhelm. Ne doms seem to be more ok with mess and with lots of ideas and not necessarily having to go deep with anything (though they can, but less compelled to)

But yes, the practical real world component of executing everything has its limits and not being practical about it can cause chaos. Not sure if its due to lack of Se Si or Te (maybe all the above?)
These cognitive functions seem to be where all the useful practical real world stuff lies.

maybe the Se inf creates that anxious overwhelm
the Si 8th creates the disorganization. (even though INFJs can be good at creating a system in theory with awesome bells and whistles with NiTi, but maintaining it is another thing) and the Te 7th not getting plans working with other people, and asking for help, resources, where it's needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I can't see your pics since I've blocked pics but relative to the inferior function, it's always in opposition to the dominant function and will randomly erupt in an unconscious manner. IF a function comes naturally to you where it manifests the majority of time, it might be worthwhile to reevaluate your type. On the other hand, if it only manifests when you're relaxing or when your dominant function strategy isn't working, then look into types with Se as tertiary/relief function to the dom.
I'm not sure about it coming naturally, I'm rather attracted to Se but I find it pretty awkwardly hit or miss when I try to engage with it more actively beyond stuff I have experience in like the arts. What's being referred to here is mostly stressful because I suck at juggling it all. It feels like chaos.

But if it's worth something I could always do one of those questionnaires on here.

I think you nailed it. Also guilty of similar things.

From hearing other Se doms speak of it... They say they like novel experiences which can lead to reckless impulsive behaviour.

Ne would then crave novel ideas.

But for Ni Doms, we ultimately want to give order to that Ne novel idea thing, and want to go deeper (NiTi?) which then creates the overwhelm. Ne doms seem to be more ok with mess and with lots of ideas and not necessarily having to go deep with anything (though they can, but less compelled to)

But yes, the practical real world component of executing everything has its limits and not being practical about it can cause chaos. Not sure if its due to lack of Se Si or Te (maybe all the above?)
These cognitive functions seem to be where all the useful practical real world stuff lies.

maybe the Se inf creates that anxious overwhelm
the Si 8th creates the disorganization. (even though INFJs can be good at creating a system in theory with awesome bells and whistles with NiTi, but maintaining it is another thing) and the Te 7th not getting plans working with other people, and asking for help, resources, where it's needed.
Oh cool, so you understand it too? That's interesting to read. I don't know, it might have something to do with bad Te too. Maybe INTJs don't deal with this so much?
Though I have heard that Se-inf can make someone struggle with performance anxiety. That makes sense.
 
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I had lunch with my ESTP client and he made me a very nice artisan sandwich and i just thought "yeah nice.. whatever" but was like "HHHMMMMMMM!!! YUMMM!! That's sooooo good!!! Oh maaan!" He was thankful 11/10 my thankful level was 5/10 lile meh. I think perhaps for them sensory experiences are IT... They draw meaning and wonder from Se like we INFJs find it exciting about discussing a deep topic and establishing a new connection and seeing a deeper meaning and seeing how everything links and understanding something we like even better.
This lunch demonstrated to me a clear difference in our Se from Dom to Inf.

The ESTP client would always encourage me to work on their open office where there's 100 distractions and I just want to go home and work in private.

Another instance was thinking on the spot in front of a camera. In a uni project. I would usually lock up and draw blanks, and they would be thrive and have fun and always come up with stuff like its easy! They behave in front of a camera like I would behave when talking about my favorite topic in depth and believe everyone's excited to hear what I have to say. (With my Ni Ti)
 

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Inferior Se essentially makes everything you do reflect on your character, since it makes it more difficult to separate actions from your subjective meaning behind them. As such, it sometimes can make the user take on a whole lot of unrelated subjects, because the he/she can categorize all those things into one abstract framework, that he/she can “improve” themselves with.

For example, I’ve worked multiple jobs (completely unrelated to one another) with high turnover rates (jobs where employees don’t stay for very long) because most can’t deal with the stress, environment, etc. For some reason though, quitting to me is like acknowledging that I lost, and that alone makes me convinced to stick by it. In short, I rationalize it as a challenge, or as a form of “resistance” that, while tough, can make me a better person when I walk out on the other side. This feeling also manifests when it comes academia, martial arts, etc.

It also results in a lot of pressure from what I’ve noticed. Just because everything you do tends to reflect on you personally with inferior Se, I know I personally hold myself back a lot of the time. I’m generally picky in what I engage in since if I do badly, that looks bad on everything else. That’s where the performance anxiety comes from. Higher Se users have a better time separating subjective meaning from what they do. So they simply do things because they enjoy it, or it’s because it needs to be done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I had lunch with my ESTP client and he made me a very nice artisan sandwich and i just thought "yeah nice.. whatever" but was like "HHHMMMMMMM!!! YUMMM!! That's sooooo good!!! Oh maaan!" He was thankful 11/10 my thankful level was 5/10 lile meh. I think perhaps for them sensory experiences are IT... They draw meaning and wonder from Se like we INFJs find it exciting about discussing a deep topic and establishing a new connection and seeing a deeper meaning and seeing how everything links and understanding something we like even better.
This lunch demonstrated to me a clear difference in our Se from Dom to Inf.

The ESTP client would always encourage me to work on their open office where there's 100 distractions and I just want to go home and work in private.

Another instance was thinking on the spot in front of a camera. In a uni project. I would usually lock up and draw blanks, and they would be thrive and have fun and always come up with stuff like its easy! They behave in front of a camera like I would behave when talking about my favorite topic in depth and believe everyone's excited to hear what I have to say. (With my Ni Ti)
The thing with that first example though is that taste itself is a pretty subjective thing. What might be a 10/10 sandwich for one person can be average or even disgusting to another person. I've had sandwiches I consider amazingly delicious, if there was a scale for sandwich quality I'd at least give them a 9/10, and ones that are just kinda okay or even gross. (Uuuuh, never want sauerkraut again....).

But yeah I understand, I'm not good at thinking on the spot either. Haha People who can do that are impressive.


Inferior Se essentially makes everything you do reflect on your character, since it makes it more difficult to separate actions from your subjective meaning behind them. As such, it sometimes can make the user take on a whole lot of unrelated subjects, because the he/she can categorize all those things into one abstract framework, that he/she can “improve” themselves with.

For example, I’ve worked multiple jobs (completely unrelated to one another) with high turnover rates (jobs where employees don’t stay for very long) because most can’t deal with the stress, environment, etc. For some reason though, quitting to me is like acknowledging that I lost, and that alone makes me convinced to stick by it. In short, I rationalize it as a challenge, or as a form of “resistance” that, while tough, can make me a better person when I walk out on the other side. This feeling also manifests when it comes academia, martial arts, etc.

It also results in a lot of pressure from what I’ve noticed. Just because everything you do tends to reflect on you personally with inferior Se, I know I personally hold myself back a lot of the time. I’m generally picky in what I engage in since if I do badly, that looks bad on everything else. That’s where the performance anxiety comes from. Higher Se users have a better time separating subjective meaning from what they do. So they simply do things because they enjoy it, or it’s because it needs to be done.
Yeah, I think you're right about this. I appreciate your well thought out comment. The performance anxiety is very strongly felt, I think because I'm well aware of how pathetically clueless I can seem (like a child who needs an adult almost) when dealing with reality, particularly when taken by surprise - I might as well be a Magikarp then. lol

There's been some embarrassing moments in the past over this and people got angry because I didn't know what to do.
It's true that all my interests I get into (might even call them obsessions) do end up connecting in some weird imaginary framework - irregardless of how dissimilar they seem - and so they all seem like building blocks that are purposeful in building some future ideal I have.
I feel almost guilty about doing stuff that I can't see a strong purpose behind like that, it then feels like a distraction. (Which can make it quite difficult to relax and just have casual fun - I do have a certain envy for high Se users in particular for this - their fun-loving nature can be very attractive to me, it's something I value their help in to a degree - it's why I liked being with my ESTP bestfriend, they'd get me more in that mindset of just trying to enjoy the moment (he was big into a variety of martial arts too when we were younger and he liked to try his moves out on me a lot lmfao).

Oh and yeah, totally, It's pretty hard for me to quit things too since you mention it, don't like the feeling of being a quitter.
I usually just put things on the backburner ("I'll finish you off later") if there's the sense I'm not at the level yet to achieve its full potential.
---

Also with Se-inf, do you randomly start feeling a strong urge to work out after long period of going without much intentional exercise? I don't know why that happens to me other than I start thinking I'm not looking my potential best, and not giving a good image to people. I get worn out by it eventually though.
 

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It's true that all my interests I get into (might even call them obsessions) do end up connecting in some weird imaginary framework - irregardless of how dissimilar they seem - and so they all seem like building blocks that are purposeful in building some future ideal I have.
Is this a Ni dom thing? Do other types not tend to structure themselves this way?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Is this a Ni dom thing? Do other types not tend to structure themselves this way?
I'm not sure, is this something that you see as true for yourself, too?
 
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Hmm, well I don’t have any Se in my stack, but I definitely do this. It took a long time to choose my primary vs. secondary areas of focus, and I still struggle somewhat with over-commitment. I want to read, write, code, draw, do math, animate, play music, exercise, explore the world, learn about geology, learn physics, play video games, go to the carnival, participate actively in 69420 forums, keep up on watching a bunch of cartoons, spend time outdoors…I need 48 hours in a day. I figured this was aux-Ne. But, I can see it relating to Se in some ways too, I suppose.

I also want to excel at everything I do. I have a hard time getting myself to try new things because I fear they might spark my interest somehow, and I will have to fit yet another thing into my already full plate. And then I will want to become super good at it, not just average, which will create additional stress, haha.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh btw, I do remember hearing once that Ni types are much more likely to be generalists rather than specialists who like to take in and memorize all the small facts and details about a subject (which would seem more true for higher Si).

Hmm, well I don’t have any Se in my stack, but I definitely do this. It took a long time to choose my primary vs. secondary areas of focus, and I still struggle somewhat with over-commitment. I want to read, write, code, draw, do math, animate, play music, exercise, explore the world, learn about geology, learn physics, play video games, go to the carnival, participate actively in 69420 forums, keep up on watching a bunch of cartoons, spend time outdoors…I need 48 hours in a day. I figured this was aux-Ne.

I also want to excel at everything I do. I have a hard time getting myself to try new things because I fear they might spark my interest somehow, and I will have to fit yet another thing into my already full plate. And then I will want to become super good at it, not just average, which will create additional stress, haha.
Ah, that is certainly relatable! Wanting to excel at everything you do could also have something to do with an enneagram fear / motivation.
I'm honestly not sure though, Ne-auxes could be into all that stuff, but I guess the question you have to ask yourself is why do you want to do all that stuff. Is it a means to explore ideas and possibilities and see how far you can take things, to get fun and pleasure out of it, or maybe you have some overarching goal you're striving for and all this stuff sorta relates to that vision somehow? Or some other reason?
 
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I'm not sure, is this something that you see as true for yourself, too?
Yes. I am not 100% sure about MBTI yet, but so far everything seems to point to me being INTJ.

I feel almost guilty about doing stuff that I can't see a strong purpose behind like that, it then feels like a distraction. (Which can make it quite difficult to relax and just have casual fun -
I relate to this too. Even something like spending time with a friend, going for a walk or listening to music has to have at least a subtle purpose relating to the bigger picture of my web of goals (or let's say... web of improvement paths?). I feel guilty when I do things that I don't see fitting onto these paths.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes. I am not 100% sure about MBTI yet, but so far everything seems to point to me being INTJ.


I relate to this too. Even something like spending time with a friend, going for a walk or listening to music has to have at least a subtle purpose relating to the bigger picture of my web of goals (or let's say... web of improvement paths?). I feel guilty when I do things that I don't see fitting onto these paths.
Ah, well INTJ would make sense at least based on what you just said there.

It's a funny thing to feel guilt about it but I suppose that just shows how strong the core obsession is.
I think there's an element of societal pressure to it as well.
 
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Oh btw, I do remember hearing once that Ni types are much more likely to be generalists rather than specialists who like to take in and memorize all the small facts and details about a subject (which would seem more true for higher Si).



Ah, that is certainly relatable! Wanting to excel at everything you do could also have something to do with an enneagram fear / motivation.
I'm honestly not sure though, Ne-auxes could be into all that stuff, but I guess the question you have to ask yourself is why do you want to do all that stuff. Is it a means to explore ideas and possibilities and see how far you can take things, to get fun and pleasure out of it, or maybe you have some overarching goal you're striving for and all this stuff sorta relates to that vision somehow? Or some other reason?
I suppose it fits with the SX-4 (wanting to be the best). I don’t relate to the desire for fame and recognition that 3s have, it’s more of a personal “prove to myself that I can do it” thing. And a desire to become everything I’ve dreamed of becoming.

I do it for the passion — each thing I’m seriously interested in has struck my heart at one point, and I just knew I had to do it. Example — When I first discovered online art communities and saw all the amazing fantasy digital paintings, I thought — that’s so cool! I have to learn how to do that! Plus, wanting to learn as much as I can about whatever interests me. And I do have an overarching goal, I want to do some sort of huge multimedia project — both digital, mental, and physical, a synthesis of code and art and theme park and music and story — that brings my fantasy world to life. So, I suppose it’s a bit of both. But even when I sit down to watch a show, I have to think about how it will bring me closer to who I want to be (like this show has great animation so it will help me be a better artist, this is good).

But anyway, thanks for your response, hopefully I am not derailing your thread too much :’) This is mostly just me stream-of-conscious-ing.
 
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I've been this way for the last few years, and honestly it drives me up a wall. Have you always been this way, you think? Or was there a time when you were less divided?

When I was younger, I was chided for being too focused. I decided to go with the flow for change, and honestly I'm not terribly satisfied with the results. I realized it wasn't so much about trying something different for growth. It was an excuse to cover up a fear of committing after I failed. I had a bad result on something that took me 10 years to achieve, but stubbornly kept going until I ruined my health and well being and finally hit a breaking point. Harsh criticisms of "I shouldn't have made this mistake. I should have known better. I shouldn't have failed. I'm a coward because I let it break me. There was a solution and I was just too stupid to find it..." etc. etc. kept me down, and I started to float around aimlessly pretending I was cool with doing nothing of significance. I mean, this was a bit too close for comfort:


I think there are some valid points here:

If You Commit to Nothing, You'll Be Distracted By Everything (jamesclear.com)

1. “Complete or Kill.”

The Marathon Monks are an extreme version of the “complete or kill” mentality. But you can take the same approach to your goals, projects, and work.

If something is important to you, complete it. If not, kill it.

If you’re anything like me, then you probably have a bunch of half–finished, half–completed projects and ideas. You don’t need all of those loose ends.

Either something is important enough to you to complete, or it’s time to kill it. Fill your life with goals that are worth finishing and eliminate the rest.

2. If you commit to nothing, you’re distracted by everything.

Most of us never face a challenge with the true possibility of death, but we can learn a lot from the monk’s sense of commitment and conviction. They have clarified exactly what they are working toward and for seven years they organize their life around the goal of completing the Kaihogyo. Every possible distraction is rendered unimportant.

Do you think the monks get distracted by TV, movies, the internet, celebrity gossip, or any of the other things that we so often waste time on? Of course not.

If you choose, you can make a similar decision in your life. Sure, your daily goals may not carry the same sense of urgency as the Kaihogyo, but that doesn’t mean you can’t approach them with the same sense of conviction.

We all have things that we say are important to us. You might say that you want to lose weight or be a better parent or create work that matters or build a successful business or write a book — but do you make time for these goals above all else? Do your organize your day around accomplishing them?

If you commit to nothing, then you’ll find that it’s easy to be distracted by everything.
The lesson cannot be "don't commit to anything", right? If what drives you in life is building something, creating something, generating something that is valuable, how can you possibly avoid a commitment to it? Perhaps the key is to avoid wrapping ego into it, or attaching too many rigid expectations to what the outcome should say about you as a person (as Impossible Hunt pointed out).

I'm not quite sure if that is your hang-up, but the way you rationalize dividing attention by saying "oh it fits in the framework somewhere...", along with the perfectionism and high expectations, seems like it might be similar.
 

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eah, I think you're right about this. I appreciate your well thought out comment. The performance anxiety is very strongly felt, I think because I'm well aware of how pathetically clueless I can seem (like a child who needs an adult almost) when dealing with reality, particularly when taken by surprise - I might as well be a Magikarp then. lol

There's been some embarrassing moments in the past over this and people got angry because I didn't know what to do.
It's true that all my interests I get into (might even call them obsessions) do end up connecting in some weird imaginary framework - irregardless of how dissimilar they seem - and so they all seem like building blocks that are purposeful in building some future ideal I have.
I feel almost guilty about doing stuff that I can't see a strong purpose behind like that, it then feels like a distraction. (Which can make it quite difficult to relax and just have casual fun - I do have a certain envy for high Se users in particular for this - their fun-loving nature can be very attractive to me, it's something I value their help in to a degree - it's why I liked being with my ESTP bestfriend, they'd get me more in that mindset of just trying to enjoy the moment (he was big into a variety of martial arts too when we were younger and he liked to try his moves out on me a lot lmfao).

Oh and yeah, totally, It's pretty hard for me to quit things too since you mention it, don't like the feeling of being a quitter.
I usually just put things on the backburner ("I'll finish you off later") if there's the sense I'm not at the level yet to achieve its full potential.
---

Also with Se-inf, do you randomly start feeling a strong urge to work out after long period of going without much intentional exercise? I don't know why that happens to me other than I start thinking I'm not looking my potential best, and not giving a good image to people. I get worn out by it eventually though.
No problem, glad I could help.
I think the thing that helped me out, was when I worked at a wire-lining shop. Part of the issue is that I used to think I was above being clueless, and that I could just skip the learning process.
Of course, nobody else really has that expectation of themselves. They know they have to learn. So part of the battle is being easier on yourself, and taking the time to learn.
Of course, I think INFJs and INTJs do this differently. But I don't know for sure.

I actually have the same urge to work out. I have a fast metabolism, so I never get overweight. But I do feel like I need to be physically capable in order to be a better individual, so that usually keeps me on track.
But there are some times where I don't exercise for a long time (outside work anyways). Then after a while, I get hard on myself. In order to make up for it, I then tend to injure myself because I don't pace myself well.
At work a couple of years ago, I worked outside without getting water or shade. My boss would tell me to rest for a few minutes, but I wouldn't listen. I ended up sick in bed for nearly a week because of heatstroke.
Stuff like that I find is what happens when you suppress Se too much. I tend to go overboard and take more than what my body can handle. Then I'm out of commission for a while.
 
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