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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi there, I know you ESTJ's are known for being honest and straightforward, but is it possible that some ESTJ's are womanizers??
Ive recently been talking to an ESTJ that I met on vacation last year.. I met him briefly but when we met we added each other on social media and that was that. A month ago we started talking and he began talking about marriage and having children and about me moving to his city to live with him so that we can build a future together yada yada, now I normally wouldn't have engaged him since I don't do "online dating" and I like to know a person before I give any chances, but I liked the fact that he was very straightforward and we started talking daily by text and video calls and we really started to like each other. Last week he flew to me and visited and the chemistry was amazing, he was very serious in demeanour and opened up to me about about personal things and his childhood and broken relationships, and we bonded. But the same night the waitress asked me about my ethnicity and I told her, and our people (his and mine) have been at war for many years and despise one another. (but I don't care, I am not religious or into politics or any ideology that divides). After dinner we carried on and he was still very affectionate and still spoke about children and getting married. He asked what my parents would think of him and I told him that its not an issue since unfortunately I do not speak with them (and never will) and I told him about that. Again he was very understanding, affectionate and protective.... But the next morning he sent me a text saying he's heading to the airport and that he can't stay another night (even though he was considering it the night before) and that he has to leave because his workers called him and they need him to come back. Since he left he's been a less affectionate even kind of cold (over text) and now communication has slowed down.
Although I might be a bit sad I am ok with whatever happens but I always need to know why (about everything). I asked him if anything changed and he didn't really answer that question but instead told me that he misses me very much- we spoke after that but now not so much. I know some of you might say maybe he's busy or whatnot, but he's been online on WhatsApp 24/7 but not talking to me.

Is it possible that I got played? Do ESTJ's play mind games? Could it be a power play? Or is it our difference in culture that is a deal breaker and he just doesn't want to tell me?

I know he liked me very much and so did I, but now I'm left wondering.
Any insight would help! Thank you.
 

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FoxyFox,

Don't ever let your guard down on the basis of someone's supposed MBTI type. All types are capable of all actions, the good and the bad.

Speaking frankly, anyone who discusses marriage and children within a month of actually talking to you regularly should be avoided. This is a red flag in dating and signals either extreme co-dependency or some other major issue is at play. Normal people don't begin planning a future with someone they've only known for four or five weeks, no matter how intense those weeks were. It would be worthwhile to consider his absence a good opportunity to leave him and look for someone who is not trying to rush things.

As a warning, I strongly recommend not engaging him even if he suddenly switches back to being warm and affectionate with you. This is a hot/cold game that is often played by people who are either players or abusive. Whichever it is, your answer is same: someone who switches between hot and cold does not care about you. They're interested in you only when it suits them.

Please take care of yourself. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
FoxyFox,

Don't ever let your guard down on the basis of someone's supposed MBTI type. All types are capable of all actions, the good and the bad.

Speaking frankly, anyone who discusses marriage and children within a month of actually talking to you regularly should be avoided. This is a red flag in dating and signals either extreme co-dependency or some other major issue is at play. Normal people don't begin planning a future with someone they've only known for four or five weeks, no matter how intense those weeks were. It would be worthwhile to consider his absence a good opportunity to leave him and look for someone who is not trying to rush things.

As a warning, I strongly recommend not engaging him even if he suddenly switches back to being warm and affectionate with you. This is a hot/cold game that is often played by people who are either players or abusive. Whichever it is, your answer is same: someone who switches between hot and cold does not care about you. They're interested in you only when it suits them.

Please take care of yourself. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Wowww I was reading your replies on other members ESTJ questions and was thinking about msging YOU directly about this!

I guess I just thought that it was normal ESTJ behaviour to start out a relationship are very straightforward with all the cards on the table. I just didn't know since my dating resume isn't that impressive- I have had one very long 12 year relationship, one 2 year and one 1 year, each guy a different type (and thought everyone approaches dating differently). I think you are right about the abusive part.. I found something about him online that indicates that he is violent/abusive. But he told me a different story and I didn't really believe him but I was hoping it was a one bad mistake kind of thing. But I really appreciate your reply, I wasn't considering that perspective at all and I think you are right.
 

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Wowww I was reading your replies on other members ESTJ questions and was thinking about msging YOU directly about this!

I guess I just thought that it was normal ESTJ behaviour to start out a relationship are very straightforward with all the cards on the table. I just didn't know since my dating resume isn't that impressive- I have had one very long 12 year relationship, one 2 year and one 1 year, each guy a different type (and thought everyone approaches dating differently). I think you are right about the abusive part.. I found something about him online that indicates that he is violent/abusive. But he told me a different story and I didn't really believe him but I was hoping it was a one bad mistake kind of thing. But I really appreciate your reply, I wasn't considering that perspective at all and I think you are right.
ESTJs can be straightforward, but it's not quite in the way you're thinking of. An ESTJ may be honest up front that they want a long term relationship, or that they don't want kids, or that they have a no-sex-before-marriage requirement. They're generally not going to hide those things they see as important and just hope you'll eventually come around and see things their way down the road.

But straightforward doesn't equate with impulsive or rushing things. Generally speaking, ESTJs want to know exactly what they're getting into and what to expect...that means getting to know who you are and what kind of person you are under a variety of circumstances. That can't be done in a month, or even a few months.

There are of course, exceptions. But as I said, they indicate a person is motivated by things/reasons that aren't to your benefit.

In line with that, it's worth observing that the man's actions don't line up with that part of the ESTJ persona. Look at the hot/cold thing. That's a game. It's not straightforward or honest. An ESTJ would usually just tell you where things stand or why they've changed. If they're not interested anymore, they'll be up front about it. Not ignore your question when you ask why things have changed but then reaffirm they miss you, despite their actions indicating otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
ESTJs can be straightforward, but it's not quite in the way you're thinking of. An ESTJ may be honest up front that they want a long term relationship, or that they don't want kids, or that they have a no-sex-before-marriage requirement. They're generally not going to hide those things they see as important and just hope you'll eventually come around and see things their way down the road.

But straightforward doesn't equate with impulsive or rushing things. Generally speaking, ESTJs want to know exactly what they're getting into and what to expect...that means getting to know who you are and what kind of person you are under a variety of circumstances. That can't be done in a month, or even a few months.

There are of course, exceptions. But as I said, they indicate a person is motivated by things/reasons that aren't to your benefit.

In line with that, it's worth observing that the man's actions don't line up with that part of the ESTJ persona. Look at the hot/cold thing. That's a game. It's not straightforward or honest. An ESTJ would usually just tell you where things stand or why they've changed. If they're not interested anymore, they'll be up front about it. Not ignore your question when you ask why things have changed but then reaffirm they miss you, despite their actions indicating otherwise.

Thank you very very much, your input actually helped a great deal.. after your reply I stopped wondering what went wrong and started wondering why I overlooked the warning signs! I backtracked and noted all the hugeeee red flags. HUGE.
In the very beginning when I asked him how he can be so interested in someone he doesn’t even know only from social media- he said that it was because I seemed real and genuine. I read somewhere that people with antisocial personality disorders prefer genuine people who show genuine emotions.. and looking back he sometimes would ask me why I’m not reacting to certain things he would say, and it’s actually because I don’t always express how I’m feeling as a defense, but it’s interesting how he wanted to see reactions!

I am slightly embarrassed to say this but, he would he even go as far as to say that he loved me. Each time he did I would tell him to stop saying that and that it’s impossible and I don’t believe it (but silly me in the back of my head I thought ok ESTJ’s are innocent with their feelings so maybe he thinks* he is!) but the very last time I told him to stop saying it he actually got angry and told me not to tell him how he feels!!
I do feel silly for even entertaining him but you see how some people can rationalize a persons behaviour because when they think their types characteristics are a certain way!

Again I really appreciate your help. I am not even the slightest bit sad anymore in fact I am relieved (and slightly amused). Lol
 

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@Foxyfox

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better overall and not so down about it. I hope you find someone out there who is everything you want/need in a partner!
 

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I only know two ESTJ's. One of them is blunt, harsh, never smiles, plays the victim card often and is just plain mean and doesn't even realize it.

The other ESTJ i know, while has similar, "doesn't smile much", is actually kind of sweet, loves cats, is much more socially aware and caring of others. He can sometimes say things that can offend some people, without giving it a second thought, but it's not really that bad and I admire how he "GETS THINGS DONE" and doesn't get offended AT ALL.... Ever....

My question is on the first, less mature ESTJ i know. Maybe you guys can give me some advice on bettering our relationship? (he's my supervisor) I see him almost everyday and I ask him a question,.. then doesn't answer me for like 5 min,.. i'm thinking he ignored me, then all of a sudden responds... (super awkward!) -- He grunts sentences at me, like "Someone at door", "Open envelopes".... like a caveman and gets SUPER easily offended. The only reason he "likes" me is because I'm competent at the work I do. I really just don't quite understand his mind,... while I understand his emotions (he holds on to deep pain with an almost "life is unfair and it sucks" sort of vibe) I just can't grasp my mind around how his mind works...
 

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^ I VERY much strongly suspect that one of my previous supervisors is an ESTJ. I worked with him for almost two years and he was the best supervisor that I have had, ever. I don't say that lightly; I've been in the workforce over 30 years so I've had my share of both good supervisors and supervisors that needed taken out with the trash.

Anyway, there were times that I'd ask him something and if he did not know immediately, I would have to wait. He would inevitably be finding out the answer and then sure enough, a few minutes later, would answer my question. He is very quick to decide things, but if it's a matter of actual policy/procedure, he'd look it up if he didn't know it.

As far as the short sentences, he was like this in email as well. Instead of a two-paragraph header at the top of a long email string that had made the rounds, his "comments" at the top were usually along the lines of "fix this", or "execute this action", etc. He trusted that I'd read the rest and just get it done.

He easily ignores about 90% of the people at work because he's either got his nose buried in his phone while walking (answering emails) or just doesn't see the need to make random small talk about nothing when he's got stuff on his mind that needs done, etc.

Having said that, I proved myself through just doing the job. He was frosty to me at first, but once he got to know me, he opened up and proved that yes, he does have a sense of humor. I do still see him frequently; he usually has the "get out of my way" look on his face all the time, but will always speak to me. There WERE days that he had that "don't talk to me" look on his face so I'd just ignore him unless he came to me with a task.

True story: A couple of years ago in my old department, we had a door decorating contest during the Christmas season. He refused to participate (no surprise there) but took me aside and asked me to change his name on the directory to "E. Scrooge"... I kid you not, and it stayed up there almost a month.

Hope this helps.
 
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