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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In most situations i've noticed that I show my first function Ni, then Fe, then Ti, and Se.

Ex: In school i'd start out the year as my regular Ni. Then in the middle of the first semester I start to show my Fe side. Then the first half of second semester I show my Ti side. Lastly i'd show my Se side towards the end of the year.

It's like the closer you get to the people, the more you're willing to share. Maybe true for all types aswell. Maybe I just had a random coincidence. What's your opinion?

Just my theory's. Just my thought's.
 
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I believe I do the same. When meeting new people Ni is like this big playing field/map/umbrella of figuring out what's going down. Once that's done I can start to show more of myself....Fe Ti Se. Se hardly comes out though unless I'm really cool with you or just drunk. :D
 

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MOTM August 2012
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You don't use the functions like that. They're not tools. They function as part of a psychological system (that in truth is much greater than just the functions). What you're saying would be the equivalent of "during first period I use my lungs, then during homeroom my stomach, and then my heart during lunch," or whatever. The reality is that all of those processes are working all the time, whether you are aware of them or not as part of larger systems (digestive, circulatory, etc). Functions are the same way. They help your ego accomplish its goals by filtering information.

Now what you should be aware of is that, apart from your dominant Intuition and maybe Feeling, you're often not as aware of these processes as you might think. Because the functions don't degrade in strength they degrade in consciousness. Meaning you are less consciously aware of the process. So you may not really have any real awareness of Extraverted Sensation for example. It may be profoundly influencing you, your moods, your dispositions, etc., but you may have no real idea of where that is coming from or what it really means to have Inferior Sensation.

For most Ni-doms to adopt a Se-mindset would be probably one of the hardest things they'd ever be asked to do (assuming they could do it at all). Because it represents the polar opposite of their normal Intuitive mindset. Extraverted Sensation is a perspective of perception of an object at surface value without interjecting any thing from within. It is just "Red object." Not apple (that's thinking), not tastes good (that's Feeling) just 'red object.' For the Introverted Intuitive (or any introverted type) who is used to always looking at things from a subjective perspective (in this case having something of a sixth sense or gut-notion about the object) this would represent a conflict. You are either ignoring what is there in favor of your own internal notions (Ni) or you are ignoring your notions and simply looking at the object for what it is (Se). Doing both consciously would potentially be problematic (because how would you know which perception was valid? It's like wearing sunglasses with only one lens - is the world shaded or is it not?) That's why we call the function attitudes preferences. You prefer one to the other (and in the case of Ni/Se, you have habituated Ni to the point where it becomes your default perspective thus repressing Sensation to the back of your mind almost unconscious).

So in reality when people say they're using Ti or Fe or something, they're often talking about something behavioral (I do this when...) which is not function usage. Functions are like mindsets or perspectives. Filters. Not things we do in a moment. But they can influence what we do in a moment (mainly the inferior function moreso than anything else, the other three functions get protected by your persona, and how you wish to come off in public and how you wish to present yourself, etc).

But often whether or not you act a certain way in a moment day to day might have more to do with some other psychological process than just the functions. For example, because of my Fe, I think Megan Fox is hot (because the appeal is to an outer or objective standard of beauty of my Southern California based peer group). But Fe does not make me want to go out and date a girl that looks like Megan Fox or her herself (if I could). It's just a form of evaluation. Too often you hear people say "my Fe made me do this, or my Fe makes me do that." And this is not the case. Fe is just evaluation. Ni is just intuition (notions, gut-feelings, etc). Ti is just your own understanding of concepts. Se is just perceiving the object at surface value. That's it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@LiquidLight
Wow, you clarified that so well for me. :) I'm kind of in a daze of what to write right now because of the new information, but I greatly appreciate your help. I'm gonna save what you said in 'notepad' so that I can read over it many times until it's clear to me. Thanks!
 

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@LiquidLight

Well-put. *applause* The llama god is awed by your knowledge just as well. :tongue:


But really, thank you for that post. I'm just beginning to gain a grasp of the cognitive functions, so your distinguishing between the actual "usage" of a function vs the "influence" of that function upon a certain behavior has been well noted. =)
 

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MOTM August 2012
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The problem is that Jung was a psychoanalyst, effectively a real psychologist who dealt with people with pathologies. And so his theory of the functions was devised to help understand or quantify what psychological processes might be taking place that might lead to say narcissism, for example (common to Te-types). So Jung's ideas deal with the underlying psychology of humanity. The nuts and bolts of how people think, not from a chemical or neurological level like modern psychology does, but more from the level of trying to devise a way of capturing the essence of how we interpret life. In this way Jung and those like him are much more, almost spiritual in way, with concepts like the anima and so forth. Mind you Jung's stuff is grounded heavily in accepted scientific theory (things like complexes, etc are still widely used terms today).

Myers on the other hand was a behavioralist, not a psychologist. So the MBTI took Jung's theories and tried to build a behavioral model out of it. Herein lies the problem: people come to MBTI, which markets itself as something of a cross between elucidating how we interact and a psychology of sorts and the issue is that MBTI is not really sound psychology. Certainly nothing as robust as Jung's theories, or anything you'd study in a research institution. MBTI is sort of an oversimplification of Jung to make, basically broad statements about how people behave that is sort of grounded in some of the ideas of Jungian psychology but certainly not that reverential to it. Its a behavioral interpretation.

She took the ideas of the functions, but rather than using them as part of a bigger picture like Jung did (where the functions are just components of the ego that filter information, and the ego is just one of many complexes that include the shadow and persona and the anima/animus, etc. a large system of psyche), Myers oversimplifies all human behavior down to the functions and then simplifies even further down to qualifying those processes as either Judging or Perceiving. She essentially says all behavior can be qualified as Judging or Perceiving motivated (which on its own is fine, but then to attach that to functions becomes problematic because the functions may, themselves have little to do with whether or not someone like their room clean for instance). This then creates all sorts of problems because you force people into behavioral categories that may have little or nothing to do with their actual cognitive functions. For example Myers associates impulsivity with Extraverted Perception, but this may, in fact be the result of Feeling (snap value judgments). Perception functions don't make decisions they simply perceive (the coat is black, not the coat is black and now I'm going to impulsively steal it.) In many definitions Extraverted Thinking and Judging are synonymous, which then creates problems because what happens if you get a type, say ENFP, who has an Extraverted Thinking preference? They're called P's yet, in real life might exhibit a lot of 'judging' behavior. MBTI simply does not allow for the fact that such a person could exist (the theory is not self-coherent sometimes) and thus you get all the mistypes and people who try to say "I'm an INFX" (which is technically impossible as INFJ and INFP share no common functions so you can't be a hybrid in MBTI's own theory).

People think because they don't clean their room they must be a P, but in reality what would this really have to do with perception function (and moreover why does it only apply to Extraverted Perceivers and not Introverted Perceivers?) Ne and Se are P but not Ni and Si? How does that work? Is the leading intuitive perception preference of an INFJ not as dominating as the leading intuitive perception preference of an ENFP? And while we're on the subject, INFPs are Feeling (judging) types, so why the P? If MBTI is trying to appeal to Jung and say that we will have a dominant function, then that dominant function should be what determines J/P, even in introverts, not an auxiliary (regardless of whether its Extraverted or not, the auxiliary is NOT the dominant function). Yet in introverts it is the auxiliary that gives them their J/P, which is sort of like saying you're left handed even if you really lead with your right.

So that, in a nutshell, is why we end up having these discussions over and over and over and over again seemingly endlessly (seriously I think I've typed some of this stuff more times than I can remember). And people throw their hands up and say "ugh learn the cognitive functions!" Because really if you're interested in this stuff more than on an cursory, superficial level, and actually interested in trying have a conception of your underlying psychology (remember Jung is just a concept of psychology) then MBTI falls short very quickly, because it was never intended for that. It was intended to place people quickly in jobs after WWII (thus the attention to extraverted functions) not to be a measure of your underlying psychology the way Jung's theories are. In that way MBTI descriptions and Kiersey temperament descriptions are really one in the same (though Kiersey I think gets the social aspects of it more right, even if he basically completely disregards the whole of MBTI/Jungian theory). But remember all that stuff is just superficial. It's measuring your persona, how you act, how you come across, etc. Not who you really are on the inside. So it all depends on what you're willing to get out of it. You can take it for as little or as much as you wish.
 

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People think because they don't clean their room they must be a P, but in reality what would this really have to do with perception function (and moreover why does it only apply to Extraverted Perceivers and not Introverted Perceivers?) Ne and Se are P but not Ni and Si? How does that work? Is the leading intuitive perception preference of an INFJ not as dominating as the leading intuitive perception preference of an ENFP? And while we're on the subject, INFPs are Feeling (judging) types, so why the P? If MBTI is trying to appeal to Jung and say that we will have a dominant function, then that dominant function should be what determines J/P, even in introverts, not an auxiliary (regardless of whether its Extraverted or not, the auxiliary is NOT the dominant function). Yet in introverts it is the auxiliary that gives them their J/P, which is sort of like saying you're left handed even if you really lead with your right.
When I first figured out how the four letters corresponded to the functions, this actually crossed my mind. I thought it was rather weird how the dominant function did not determine the J/P, but it was the extroverted function. I wondered why an auxiliary extroverted judging function made a person a judgement type even when it was not the dominant function. "If my preference is Ni, a perceiving function, then how does that make me a judgement type?" I questioned it, but then shrugged it off. Perhaps it was not such an obscure thought after all..
 

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What's your opinion?
My Fe is the last thing I share with anyone. I still use my Fe in discussions, but it's largely muted and suppressed by Ni + Ti and Se.

I wouldn't consider myself a traditionally, cognitively healthy INFJ.

Suppressing your Fe can contribute toward being Schizoid.

I'm not sure if I am or not. I wouldn't care if I was.

I love most everyone, but that doesn't mean I want to converse with them. It's an odd way of being. I'd rather just stand aside and be around people without actually involving myself. I prefer activities like that, where I can tag along without having to do anything, like socialize.
 
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