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Mafia Goddess
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Yea their messiness and inefficiency annoys me sometimes. But on the other hand if they are your supervisors it's great because they never get angry. I remember as an intern i had to confess to my ESFP boss that I didn't think something through and we lost like $1000 because of it and he was like "oh no worries, that can happen". He's the one who used to always lose contracts and that cost way more money. He was a lot older than me but he was a charmer and people thought we were flirting sometimes but it was just the way we were xD he was like a second dad almost who kept inviting me to ridiculously expensive dinners and VIP parties because we both loved good food, music and wines. I didn't ever go for dinner with him though because it would have come off wrong. But the VIP parties were great because he'd introduce me to all the potential future employers and talked good about me to them. I didn't even know they were the CEOs so i casually chatted and danced with them and they said they've never seen an intern who was that confident and happy haha white wine....i owe that ESFP many job offers and i really liked him and miss him. He and the ISTJ were the people i liked most in the office

Anyway, sorry for deviating! I have at least 2 (young) ESFPs at my new job and i have to say its different with them. One is basically constantly on drugs and super chill (too chill for my likings) and the other very, very loud. But some ESFPsare actually quite energized ans efficient, from my experience mostly the older ones.
See, that's interesting. My manager is very much like that -- plays the "daddy" role -- with my younger less experienced team mates, and I wonder if part of the reason we have difficulties getting is because I'm older (than my younger team mates, not him) and more established in my career, and therefore the dynamics of our relationship may be more threatening to him in some ways. The thing is, having recognized this dynamic, I've tried to approach him from the standpoint of asking for his help and guidance to function better within the team structure, but that hasn't really gotten me anywhere in the long term either.

But you're also right that the upside is that he doesn't really care about my messiness and my procrastinating ways, even when it leads to issues! I've had other bosses who were more STJ who really gave me a hard time with my "process" so it is definitely a benefit that my current manager is worse than I am in this respect! :wink:
 

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Mafia Goddess
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Hmm you guys made me think of another question but it's a mean one.

Do any of you instinctively try to get the ' important' people to like you? By important I mean people who could be useful to you in any way or people who can make your life easier? And is itanipulation when you genuinely like them and accept favours but also do nice things for them?

I just went over my life in thoughts and I realized I have always done this without noticing :O i think i once read that it's a type 7 thing but do any of you ENFPs do this?

Warning: The below is boring to read. I tend to think by talking (writing) :) just skip the below.

Like in high school teachers liked and respected me (i never ever kissed their @ss though), to the point where classmates would always send me to the teacher when they wanted to postpone an exam or stuff like that. Now in the professional world the other employees usually say I'm the boss's 'favorite' to the point where again they send me to him when they want something from him that he would normally never allow.

We had this one important partner company which my company didn't like. Their director was a dictator basically who frustrated his employees and even made some of them cry with his behaviour. Many of them quit because of him. Now the very first time i met him (and didn't know who he was), i knew instinctively it'd make my life easier if i get along with him. So i ignored his initial rudeness and was nice to him. It worked wonders. Our director even asked me to get stuff from him and i was the intern :O everyone in my (and his) company knew he liked me because it just felt so out of place that he's getting me coffee or complimenting on my hair in meetings with everyone around when he was basically being an @ss to everyone else. He even invited me (only me :S) to their company dinners/activities although i was working for the other ocmpany. The good thing is it eventually brought the two companies closer together which i love because i loved the guys from that other company and got along great with them. I could never understand why my colleagues didn't like them. It also made work easier because they were basically friends and would do more for me than the average client.

Now i really never wamted to accept their 'niceness' and go bad mouthing about them behind ttheir back. I geguinely liked them. Some people do that and it makes me want to throw up. The thing is, like with that dictator-director, because i was always nice to him (i'm nicw to everyone), he was always nice to me and i don't have any reason to dislike him or go talk bad about him. I do not like how he treats his employees but he's always been fair to me, so...i judge him based on how he's with me. Don't know if that's right or wrong :-/ i did actually like him and defend him when colleagues would bad mouth about him.
Yep, I do it all the time. Like you said, it's not manipulation in the sense of being fake, but looking at how is the best way to facillitate both harmony and a desired outcome. There is no point in contributing to discord if you can see a way to create harmony and a win-win situation, and given that our ability to see those pathways is a gift, why not use it? It is definitely something I did unconsciously when I was younger and learned how to harness as I grew older. It doesn't always work, but I have found that it has often made "difficult" people and situations much easier to work with. I also consider it a valuable asset in the job that I do -- I joke about being manipulative with my clients, but it's really just helping people who might be stuck in maladaptive patterns to see how doing things a different way might actually be in their best interest. And if they like the messenger it makes them more likely to listen to the message. And if they sometimes wind up thinking it was their own idea in the end, even more power to it!
 

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Mafia Goddess
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The kind approach works on a lot of people. It's not only women who posses this ability. Although maybe women can make it work on more people because they are seen through women-bias colored glasses.

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You're right. I had a male intern (who I think was also an ENFP) who was even better at this than me. For example he went into a meeting where the other professionals were completely opposed to a certain idea for supporting a client, and he managed to approach the issue in such a way that he left the meeting with them all convinced that they had come up with the idea he was proposing on their own. I was very much impressed!
 

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i know ESFP do =) my cousin and I would talk about sweets the whole day or snack and food...who doesnt love sugar?
I actually know a couple people who aren't fans of sweets. It all just comes down to personal preference.
 

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I actually know a couple people who aren't fans of sweets. It all just comes down to personal preference.
That's true , It wasn't my intentions to generalize types as sugar addicts - sorry :)


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Older me...if you try your best to help them and are genuinely nice to them, it's not abuse, right? I would hate it if it was...

Have you ever noticed in your wokrplace (and outside too actually) that the feminist kind of girls fight back such 'dictators' and it makes it even worse? It reminds me of the whole female / male energy theory. You can't fight strong male energy with male energy. It would take a lot of effort and struggle to get 'even' with them but most women can't come up with a truly higher male energy than those types of guys. I always wonder why they try so hard and feel threatened when they could just relax and be themselves and use their female energy because then his male energy works effortlessly in their favour...all this stuff about women being weak when they are truly being a woman is BS. Men may rule the world but women rule men :p i believe women in their female energy can make any and the strongest men be on their side and work for them without asking them to :)
Yes, I totally agree, , one should not attempt to fight someone back using the other energy, but your own!
And a strong grounded woman, with all her femininity, can be even more powerful than a macho macho.
 

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I am an ENFP (women) married to a ESTP (man). Any ideas on connecting better?
What is wrong may I ask ? Perhaps a weekend together or a mini vacation somewhere


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See, that's interesting. My manager is very much like that -- plays the "daddy" role -- with my younger less experienced team mates, and I wonder if part of the reason we have difficulties getting is because I'm older (than my younger team mates, not him) and more established in my career, and therefore the dynamics of our relationship may be more threatening to him in some ways. The thing is, having recognized this dynamic, I've tried to approach him from the standpoint of asking for his help and guidance to function better within the team structure, but that hasn't really gotten me anywhere in the long term either.

But you're also right that the upside is that he doesn't really care about my messiness and my procrastinating ways, even when it leads to issues! I've had other bosses who were more STJ who really gave me a hard time with my "process" so it is definitely a benefit that my current manager is worse than I am in this respect! :wink:
Well what is so bad about them acting like a dad? My ESFP only did the good side of what a dad is. He never tried to tell me what to do, tried to control me etc. He just looked out for me and tried to make me happy. And he did watch out for me on nights out and tell guys off (although the other male colleagues and one female colleague did that too) . I can't see anything wrong with all that.

Maybe you need to talk to him about the things he does that bother you?

 

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If someone is struggling I want to help them get past it.....
i agreee with you completely =) my cousin(whos also my bff) ESFP cousin and I have always been there to support each other through our toughest times =)
 

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You're right. I had a male intern (who I think was also an ENFP) who was even better at this than me. For example he went into a meeting where the other professionals were completely opposed to a certain idea for supporting a client, and he managed to approach the issue in such a way that he left the meeting with them all convinced that they had come up with the idea he was proposing on their own. I was very much impressed!
Hahaha I do that too. It's the only logucal thing to do when you're dealing with someone who won't listen to anyone else's opinion or thinks they are the smartest. The idea obviously has to come from themselves for them to be able to accept it. So we ask the questions which guide them in the direction of our idea. We make them feel like we're looking for advice, like we trust them to be brilliant, like they are always the ones who decide and when they ifnally get to your idea 'by themselves', we say "that's actually a brilliant idea!" :) it's kinda what psychiatrists do, isn't it? And it probably is a form of manipulation. But as long as everyone is happy...
 

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Yep, I do it all the time. Like you said, it's not manipulation in the sense of being fake, but looking at how is the best way to facillitate both harmony and a desired outcome. There is no point in contributing to discord if you can see a way to create harmony and a win-win situation, and given that our ability to see those pathways is a gift, why not use it? It is definitely something I did unconsciously when I was younger and learned how to harness as I grew older. It doesn't always work, but I have found that it has often made "difficult" people and situations much easier to work with. I also consider it a valuable asset in the job that I do -- I joke about being manipulative with my clients, but it's really just helping people who might be stuck in maladaptive patterns to see how doing things a different way might actually be in their best interest. And if they like the messenger it makes them more likely to listen to the message. And if they sometimes wind up thinking it was their own idea in the end, even more power to it!
100% agreed :)
 

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The kind approach works on a lot of people. It's not only women who posses this ability. Although maybe women can make it work on more people because they are seen through women-bias colored glasses.

But that doesn't make it right that some guy bosses everyone around. That's a lot of wasted energy, frustrated people and ineffective leadership.
Yes of course both men and women can use this. Male and female energy has not much to do with gender. Women can have more male energy than men and vice versa. If you have a female ESTJ next to a male INFP, the male is probably having/using more female enrgy than this female (and vice versa for the male energy).


And i agree it doesn't make it right how he treated his employees. I tried making things between them and him bettter because i got along with him AND them. It worked to a degree :)
 

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Yes of course both men and women can use this. Male and female energy has not much to do with gender. Women can have more male energy than men and vice versa. If you have a female ESTJ next to a male INFP, the male is probably having/using more female enrgy than this female (and vice versa for the male energy).
The female energy is a more cooperative way, very useful for interaction with people. The male energy is a more forceful way, very useful to get things done, but that energy used on people seems ineffective.

I used to say that things are hard, so they require a hard approach (more J-ness). People are soft, they require a soft approach. (more P-ness).

Also, relaxing is a lot easier if you have a connection to female energy. People who haven't learned to connect to it are missing something beautiful.
 

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Oh oh
I'm developing a little crush in someone I really shouldn't
:p
But it's so hard to keep the intensity of my interest when I meet a kindred spirit !!!
Just haven't decided if I should turn it off (and how) or turn it all the way up and go for it!
:-D
 
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