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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Rant on creationism

So recently I came across this statistic, 46% Americans believe in creationism, 32% believe in theistic evolution only 15% in evolution without divine intervention. I live in a very small conservative, bible belt, cowboy town where the percentage are probably much higher, 70-85% this place sucks is my twitter bio:rolleyes:. Evolution is not just a theory, it's a proven scientific fact.

I remember the day that I first began to realize how unlike me others were. It was in Sunday school, I was 6, the topic Adam and Eve. As I listened to the Sunday school teacher droll on suddenly a question popped into my head. So I raised my hand and proudly asked "but what about the dinosaurs?". My Sunday school teachers response, "well they hadn't been dug up yet". If I possessed the same vocabulary as I do now my response would have been something on the lines of WTF?!?! But, alas, I was only 6 so I just stood there frozen in a state of indignant rage. It made NO sense. what. so. ever. NONE. I had heard the story of creationism before, but I never imagined that anyone could actually believe this shit. In my head Adam and Eve belonged right next to Santa Claus and The Tooth Fairy.

Although some say such beliefs are harmless, this is simply not so. When it becomes apparent the a section of the population is quite gullible it is inevitable that there will be a people who use these followers for their own selfish agendas. This has been proved and reproved countless times throughout history the most recent being with Christians and the gay rights movement. This is why it seems so clear to my that no matter what thinking for your self is always the best policy.

Why is it that so many choose to take the word of some archaic book instead of relying on common sense and scientific fact? Why? Is it that scary to be different? Personally, I believe are difference should be cherished because that's what makes us human (that is in tell we EVOLVE into something better, or perhaps worse:proud:).
 

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Why is it that so many choose to take the word of some archaic book instead of relying on common sense and scientific fact?
It's very simple. When you grow up hearing the same story over and over again, everyone around you believes it, and lots of smart people also believe it, you just end up believing it as well until something happens that really makes you question the whole thing.
 
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This thread is unique and provocative! :kitteh:
Given that this is the INTP subforum, legitimately can't tell if sarcastic :tongue:

I had a much milder experience with what you're describing, because though I was raised Catholic, it was by liberal parents who also espoused the value of scientific reasoning and who believed in evolution (I really dislike phrasing it that way). But at my church I definitely encountered at least a little bit of what you're talking about, and it's very frustrating.

One of the things that bothers me is when people call evolution a theory. Natural Selection is a theory. Evolution is a fact. All fossil evidence, DNA evidence, and organism lineages point to its absolute truth. It is a scientific fact in the same way that gravity pulling things to earth is a scientific fact. Natural Selection, which explains in part why evolution occurs, is a theory. Just like how Newton's Theory of Gravitation, or General Relativity are theories explaining why gravity occurs. But you actually cannot deny that evolution occurred and continues to occur, unless you intend to go against every measure of rational thought that exists and take on the philosophical position of radical doubt or something similar.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You mentioned theistic evolution, but then didn't elaborate as to what your thoughts on it were. I'd be interested to know what you think about it.
I've always considered it as possibility, but kind of an unlikely one... If there is a god who created him (or her, maybe it??)?? Why does there even need to be a god in the first place?

While I defiantly don't consider myself to be a christian, I can't really say I'm an atheist ether. Saying I'm an atheist is saying I know and really I don't know and I don't think I'll ever know... So that's why I consider myself to be an agnostic. I like how it leaves things open ended
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Given that this is the INTP subforum, legitimately can't tell if sarcastic :tongue:

I had a much milder experience with what you're describing, because though I was raised Catholic, it was by liberal parents who also espoused the value of scientific reasoning and who believed in evolution (I really dislike phrasing it that way). But at my church I definitely encountered at least a little bit of what you're talking about, and it's very frustrating.


One of the things that bothers me is when people call evolution a theory. Natural Selection is a theory. Evolution is a fact. All fossil evidence, DNA evidence, and organism lineages point to its absolute truth. It is a scientific fact in the same way that gravity pulling things to earth is a scientific fact. Natural Selection, which explains in part why evolution occurs, is a theory. Just like how Newton's Theory of Gravitation, or General Relativity are theories explaining why gravity occurs. But you actually cannot deny that evolution occurred and continues to occur, unless you intend to go against every measure of rational thought that exists and take on the philosophical position of radical doubt or something similar.
Actually my parents are also very liberal it's the the town I live in that's stupid... My mom is INFP and my dad ENTP and there like the coolest people I know:happy:

I also hate how evolution is considered a theory. It's like saying the theory that this table is a table.
 

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I've always considered it as possibility, but kind of an unlikely one... If there is a god who created him (or her, maybe it??)?? Why does there even need to be a god in the first place?

While I defiantly don't consider myself to be a christian, I can't really say I'm an atheist ether. Saying I'm an atheist is saying I know and really I don't know and I don't think I'll ever know... So that's why I consider myself to be an agnostic. I like how it leaves things open ended
I consider myself an agnostic too. It puts me at peace lol.

I've had pretty much the same experiences as you, so I had all these thoughts too. I live in a small town that holds all these beliefs. I'm not a really judgmental person, I've learned to coexist with religious people and I learned to respect their beliefs, but it really irks me when they choose to not see the understanding that evolution can bring. The evidence is there, has been tested, and can be found again and again. I only wish that people where I live were more open-minded, there is nothing I can really do to change them. I have some religious friends who understand and support evolution, and that doesn't bother me, as long as they've opened their minds to its obvious evidence.
 

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Actually my parents are also very liberal it's the the town I live in that's stupid... My mom is INFP and my dad ENTP and there like the coolest people I know:happy:

I also hate how evolution is considered a theory. It's like saying the theory that this table is a table.
Vent, my friend, vent. But it's not as bad as you think.
 

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I also hate how evolution is considered a theory. It's like saying the theory that this table is a table.
The only thing that makes it a table is your perception of it. And that perception is based on years of being indoctrinated to think a certain way, just like all those other tableism sheep.

Conformist.
 

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The people who still believe in pure creationism are typically either ignorant or just like the comfort they get from the structure of their religion. I'm cradle-Catholic and I do believe in God (or at least a God/higher being/something more/purpose of some sort), but I am also a scientist. I've looked up the official Catholic position and they appear to be somewhere between evolution and intelligent design, so those who still are hard-core creationists in the religion are not only wrong in reality, but also wrong in the Church's eyes as well, which is interesting considering most members of the Catholic church are horribly far behind not only in the times, but the attempts of the Church to adapt to scientific discoveries as well.

I dont agree with many of the Church's ideas (specifically on social issues), but I do like to believe (notice the "like to believe" because that is important because there is no way I can prove it and I am comfortable with that) that there is some other force guiding the creation/evolution/advancement/whatever of life (and not just the evolution of modern humans). I think that life itself is beautiful and the more I've learned of physics, biology, chemistry, and science in general in my studies and workplace, the more beautiful the system is to me.

In the same way that raging creationists have idiots and ignorant, stupid people, we must also realize that there is the same on the other side who are raging atheists and they're just as closed-minded on both sides. I like speculation and I believe that everyone should be free to ponder these things because the more we do, the more we learn and the more ideas/theories/etc. we can come up with! I particularly like these kinds of topics haha as you can probably tell. And the more existential, the better. :p

But on the theory thing, even scientific "facts" can be proven wrong because in the scientific world, technically everything is based off of statistical evidence at best, so its all just technicalities. Evolution is considered a theory because it is difficult to statistically validate because it takes place over such a long period of time. However, in terms of empirical evidence, its practically certain, but we still have to call it a theory haha.
 

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...Saying I'm an atheist is saying I know..
NO!

Being an atheist does not mean you 'know' there's no god. What it usually(as in not always) means is that you don't think there's a supernatural man in the sky having a super dollhouse party!
 

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Look at evolution objectively for long enough and you can poke holes in its logic. Hence, its status as a theory.
 
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