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I was recently fired from a professional-level position. The firing came out of the blue, even after many accolades on what a fine job I was doing, and how I was contributing to the organization. So when asked why they were letting me go without prior written notice, or given the ability to improve a short-coming, they first said, "It's not a good fit." (This answer of course, is a safe, human-resources cover-my-legal-ass response).

Finally, the President of the company told me, "Well, you just ask too many questions and make a lot people feel uncomfortable." The HR drone chimed in, saying, "I'm surprised you DON'T know!" When I asked her to elaborate on that remark, she simply looked at her shoes. So when I pressed them for specifics on what KIND of questions made them feel uncomfortable--because I seriously wanted to know why I was getting fired--the President of the company merely replied, "See! You are doing it right now by pressing this issue!" (WTF?)


Then I started thinking about a time 15 years ago or so where I was fired--again, out of the blue--with no reason other than "It's not a good fit." Of course, these two jobs were for small businesses, and I have learned that I fit in better with a large corporation.

But seriously? What about my personality is SO abrasive that it causes employers to let an INTJ go without warning? Are they THAT afraid of a mastermind that they know any response will be dissected and proven unsubstantiated, so they just drop the bomb and run? :confused:

Anyone else have a story similar to this, or insight as to what is up with INTJs getting the boot?
 

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Right away, before reading the body of your post, I was going to say lack of social skills. I feel for you, playing politics at work doesn't come easy for me either. Unfortunately, in this world it's not about actual skill but politics. Have to play the game.

Try reading "Winning Friends and Influencing People", if that makes you barf then go into a profession where you don't have to deal with people. Engineer? Radiologist? Pathologist?

People should never claim themselves to be masterminds, let someone else label you as one. Dissecting what people say is annoying, but I understand you were frustrated and upset, so did the HR lady. That's why she bit her tongue.
 

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Are your colleagues primarily women?
In an earlier thread on job interviews some women pointed out that they stood a better chance of getting the job if the interviewer was a man than a woman. Whether this is a problem for NT women in general or it's a problem for XNTJ women and INTJ women in particular, I don't know. In a group of men there isn't a tendency for the men to feel a dislike towards someone taking a leading position the way there is among a group of women (or so I've read). To non-NT women the INTJ woman is sending vibes that she is in charge (and it doesn't really matter if it's actually the case). While evolution has made men accept the alpha male the evolution has apparently made women react against an alpha female. Maybe this has relevance to your situation.
 

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That sounds like jealousy to me. Competent employee. Unreasonable boss. Quite sad, but that's definitely something that would anger me for a while, at least until I've fully thought it through and determined a different course of action as far as a job or career goes.
 

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I have been fired after producing exceptional results because of my lack of joy greeting authority figures. Being cordial will be seen as weakness by some and pretentious by others. I guess there's no room for results-oriented teamwork anymore in corporate America. Might as well line up for my daily hugging session and look forward to mindless chatter about the "weather".
 

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Lots of people get fired, regardless of type. xNTJs make excellent leaders, but you gotta find a job where they're actually looking for leadership skills, training people, etc. otherwise the hens feel pecked at.:tongue:
 

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Are your colleagues primarily women?
In an earlier thread on job interviews some women pointed out that they stood a better chance of getting the job if the interviewer was a man than a woman. Whether this is a problem for NT women in general or it's a problem for XNTJ women and INTJ women in particular, I don't know. In a group of men there isn't a tendency for the men to feel a dislike towards someone taking a leading position the way there is among a group of women (or so I've read). To non-NT women the INTJ woman is sending vibes that she is in charge (and it doesn't really matter if it's actually the case). While evolution has made men accept the alpha male the evolution has apparently made women react against an alpha female. Maybe this has relevance to your situation.
I think another reason why this is true, is because most women are herding creatures. They want to be liked by other women or at least accepted even if it is on the superficial level. NTJ women don't really care if other women like them. The games that women play to try and get you under their thumb wont work on me. I simply wont play the game. Nothing they can do can make me uncomfortable, or can shake my confidence. I think that strong sense of self that alot of NT women possess, is whats really off putting for other women, especially SF women.
 

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OP,

Your situation is the primary reason I don't want to work for corporate america. I score low on extroversion, but Im just not a people person to begin with. I hate having to go through the motions and would much rather not have to come into contact with others. This is why I want to become a translator and then open up my own small business.

Look on the bright side though, you wont have to deal with these kinds of people anymore. How the hell is asking questions a negative thing? Only stupid people think like that. People who don't want to feel challenged think like that. People who aren't confident in their own abilities think like that. Its like bosses who never want to be questioned by their underlings. If you're confident in your leadership ability, then you wont have to worry about being overtaken or made to look silly. It seems like they are simply threatened by you. Rather than deal with their own short comings or insecurities they'd rather take it out on you. I'd suggest you find a job that caters specifically to your skill set, where you don't have to come into contact with shitty people.

One thing I realized is this: People who rather work with someone they like over someone that is competent and qualified for the job.

Yes, its a sad sad world out there.
 

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Honestly, this sounds somewhat like sex discrimination since you didn't live up to the perceived acceptable notions that a woman in the workplace is supposed to conform to. Were male employees who acted similarly ever fired because they did not "fit in?' These are just questions you might want to ask because what you're telling me just doesn't add up.

1. You were a competent employee who did her job and I'm assuming didn't have many screw ups
2. Awards and accolades
3. No formal complaints about your behavior
4. No supervisor ever warned you about modifying your behavior
5. Fired out of the blue because you didn't conform to how a woman should act in the work place

Your situation sounds eerily similar to a case I just read, so that's why I'm proposing this notion to you.


A Slap at Sex Stereotypes - TIME

Hopkins v Price Waterhouse
 

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That makes a lot of sense. Besides the woman thing (which I privately referred to as "the chickens", there was a lot of nepotism within the management structure, where all the business unit leaders were men (imagine that!) who either were related to the board or graduated from a certain alma mater. This is why I cringe at the thought of working for another small business.
 

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@downsowf: Sex discrimination DID cross my mind, based on the nepotism and myopia, as well as events that led up to another female engineer being fired several months before I was let go. There was also no reprimand to any of the male colleagues who made jokes about "ugly engineers are usually female" and "hire the woman, they'll do way more for less than you can imagine". Of course, the burden of proof of lies with me, the plaintiff, and I just didn't have the finances or stamina to draw out a long court battle. But now I know why no details about why I was getting let go were provided.

Some of the sexual innuendo that I was aware of, and the way the male leadership team treated women made me cringe. Any publicly traded company would nip that sort of thing in the bud, but at that place, it was overlooked without so much as reprimand. And for the most part, the majority of administrative women that do work there are nearing retirement age, so I believe they put up and shut up just to get their paychecks and retirement package.

I'm just glad to be out of that place. As I refer to it: "A festering blister on my resume."
 

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I was recently fired from a professional-level position. The firing came out of the blue, even after many accolades on what a fine job I was doing, and how I was contributing to the organization. So when asked why they were letting me go without prior written notice, or given the ability to improve a short-coming, they first said, "It's not a good fit." (This answer of course, is a safe, human-resources cover-my-legal-ass response).

Finally, the President of the company told me, "Well, you just ask too many questions and make a lot people feel uncomfortable." The HR drone chimed in, saying, "I'm surprised you DON'T know!" When I asked her to elaborate on that remark, she simply looked at her shoes. So when I pressed them for specifics on what KIND of questions made them feel uncomfortable--because I seriously wanted to know why I was getting fired--the President of the company merely replied, "See! You are doing it right now by pressing this issue!" (WTF?)


Then I started thinking about a time 15 years ago or so where I was fired--again, out of the blue--with no reason other than "It's not a good fit." Of course, these two jobs were for small businesses, and I have learned that I fit in better with a large corporation.

But seriously? What about my personality is SO abrasive that it causes employers to let an INTJ go without warning? Are they THAT afraid of a mastermind that they know any response will be dissected and proven unsubstantiated, so they just drop the bomb and run? :confused:

Anyone else have a story similar to this, or insight as to what is up with INTJs getting the boot?
Do you think you come across like you're questioning authority? I've had to tone down my tendency to ask a hundred questions to understand a process change or policy change. It seems to piss people off, even when you're doing it with only the need to fully understand the motivation and the reasoning behind the change.
 

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Yeah, because sometimes when you question authority innocently they may perceive it as a threat depending on the subject at hand (no authority figure wants to be outshined or picked apart by subordinates). Maybe that was part of it?
 

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@downsowf: Sex discrimination DID cross my mind, based on the nepotism and myopia, as well as events that led up to another female engineer being fired several months before I was let go. There was also no reprimand to any of the male colleagues who made jokes about "ugly engineers are usually female" and "hire the woman, they'll do way more for less than you can imagine". Of course, the burden of proof of lies with me, the plaintiff, and I just didn't have the finances or stamina to draw out a long court battle. But now I know why no details about why I was getting let go were provided.

Some of the sexual innuendo that I was aware of, and the way the male leadership team treated women made me cringe. Any publicly traded company would nip that sort of thing in the bud, but at that place, it was overlooked without so much as reprimand. And for the most part, the majority of administrative women that do work there are nearing retirement age, so I believe they put up and shut up just to get their paychecks and retirement package.

I'm just glad to be out of that place. As I refer to it: "A festering blister on my resume."
Wow. Just because someone becomes desensitized to misogynist comments from other employees in the workplace doesn't mean this is acceptable behavior; in fact, if the top management turned a blind eye to such behavior, and it seems, from what you said, perpetuated a work culture where women need to be "put in their place," this is, at the very least, disgusting, intolerable business conduct. It's unfortunate this happens routinely for women in the work place and most women are taught to "smile, listen, and be a lady" by men who are threatened of being overtaken by intelligent women or by ladies who are too cowardly to fight for what they have rightfully earned and that don't want other women to succeed.

"An employer who objects to aggressiveness in women but whose positions require this trait places women in an intolerable and impermissible Catch-22: out of a job if they behave aggressively and out of a job if they don't."- Justice Brennan.
 

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tits or gtfo

Yep, this is why I'll try to work as a university prof, and not in a company.
lol @ thinking you're going to hide from politics, as a university professor. According to studies done by Waterloo researchers, there is a significant correlation between excellence, and getting mobbed - sometimes to suicide - in university faculties, with the target always untenured associates, and the bullies always tenured/seeking tenure. In fact, academia is more likely to produce bullying than the average workplace type. Workplace Mobbing in Academe You're welcome.

Sorry to hear that OP. You're like me, someone that rattles people's cages. /inflection. I go through the same shit from time to time. I have a compete jerkstore of a boss right now. When he took over, he told me the previous boss had done my performance review, and that I "wouldn't be getting a raise." He never bothered to let me see it, and it's past the time for my current review, and I want to peg that fat little fucking ignorant piece of shit to the wall with an addendum to my review, because I know I will be libeled in it. The way I see it, I don't have anything to lose.
 

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lol @ thinking you're going to hide from politics, as a university professor. According to studies done by Waterloo researchers, there is a significant correlation between excellence, and getting mobbed - sometimes to suicide - in university faculties, with the target always untenured associates, and the bullies always tenured/seeking tenure. In fact, academia is more likely to produce bullying than the average workplace type. Workplace Mobbing in Academe You're welcome.
Shit. Any way I can... avoid such an environment? Freelance work, I guess?
 

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I was recently fired from a professional-level position. The firing came out of the blue, even after many accolades on what a fine job I was doing, and how I was contributing to the organization. So when asked why they were letting me go without prior written notice, or given the ability to improve a short-coming, they first said, "It's not a good fit." (This answer of course, is a safe, human-resources cover-my-legal-ass response).

Finally, the President of the company told me, "Well, you just ask too many questions and make a lot people feel uncomfortable." The HR drone chimed in, saying, "I'm surprised you DON'T know!" When I asked her to elaborate on that remark, she simply looked at her shoes. So when I pressed them for specifics on what KIND of questions made them feel uncomfortable--because I seriously wanted to know why I was getting fired--the President of the company merely replied, "See! You are doing it right now by pressing this issue!" (WTF?)


Then I started thinking about a time 15 years ago or so where I was fired--again, out of the blue--with no reason other than "It's not a good fit." Of course, these two jobs were for small businesses, and I have learned that I fit in better with a large corporation.

But seriously? What about my personality is SO abrasive that it causes employers to let an INTJ go without warning? Are they THAT afraid of a mastermind that they know any response will be dissected and proven unsubstantiated, so they just drop the bomb and run? :confused:

Anyone else have a story similar to this, or insight as to what is up with INTJs getting the boot?
Asking too many questions? Tell them that's exactly what a homicide detective will be doing if you don't get your job back. ( Just kidding...)
 
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