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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've always been on the fence about whether I'm a J type or a P, and these recent Big Five personality tests make it abundantly clear why that's true. In MBTI theory, all of these should either be to the left or to the right, yeah? But this makes it quite clear that I don't have much desire for order or cleanliness, which is very true. I am a bit reckless and am a bit uncomfortable when things are decided. That being said, I am also very strong in self-discipline which this also clearly shows.

How would you interpret these results, and how would you label me, J or P, given what you see here?

Edit: this seems to be showing up as an extremely small picture, but click on it and it will get bigger :)

IMG_2914.jpg
 

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Extraverted perceiving function + introverted judging function, probably.

Pe - recklessness.

Ji - sticking to your word, staying focused etc - likely Ji-Pe because Pe doms have a harder time staying focused, unless they actively work on their auxiliary Ji (which they should, lol)..

Doubtful of a Je function in dominant or auxiliary position (though it's possible in auxiliary if you haven't worked on it) due to preference for being a dirty bin chicken.
 

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I wouldn't focus so much on whether you're J or P, but rather if you're a Fi dom or Si dom if you're in between ISFP and ISFJ. Fi and Si as a dominant function can look really similar at times as they're both subjectively oriented functions which place high importance on their principles (Si) and their values (Fi) and both have a leaning towards sentiments. Fi will be more individualistic and, combined with Se, likely a bit more easygoing while Si will be more planned and, combined with Fe, outwardly warm.

If you want something more definite though, your little blerb sounds like an ISFP thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Extraverted perceiving function + introverted judging function, probably.

Pe - recklessness.

Ji - sticking to your word, staying focused etc - likely Ji-Pe because Pe doms have a harder time staying focused, unless they actively work on their auxiliary Ji (which they should, lol)..

Doubtful of a Je function in dominant or auxiliary position (though it's possible in auxiliary if you haven't worked on it) due to preference for being a dirty bin chicken.
I read this several times and can't make heads or tails of it lol.

Does Pe = either Se or Ne? Likewise, is Ji either Fi or Ti?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I wouldn't focus so much on whether you're J or P, but rather if you're a Fi dom or Si dom if you're in between ISFP and ISFJ. Fi and Si as a dominant function can look really similar at times as they're both subjectively oriented functions which place high importance on their principles (Si) and their values (Fi) and both have a leaning towards sentiments. Fi will be more individualistic and, combined with Se, likely a bit more easygoing while Si will be more planned and, combined with Fe, outwardly warm.

If you want something more definite though, your little blerb sounds like an ISFP thing.
Instead of talking about my personality, I'd rather just stay focused on trying to correlate J/P to the facets of the Big Five model which has way more support amongst scientists who study personality. To me this makes the limitations of the MBTI model abundantly clear. How can J/P possibly capture the fact that someone likes to keep their options open and make reckless decisions, yet they still have tremendous self-discipline and adherence to their duties?
 

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Instead of talking about my personality, I'd rather just stay focused on trying to correlate J/P to the facets of the Big Five model which has way more support amongst scientists who study personality. To me this makes the limitations of the MBTI model abundantly clear. How can J/P possibly capture the fact that someone likes to keep their options open and make reckless decisions, yet they still have tremendous self-discipline and adherence to their duties?
Ah I see. J/P cannot, unless you include the cognitive portion of the theory. If you exclude the cognitive functions from the mbti theory and focus on dichotomies, mbti does a very poor job of actually describing an individual (at least in my opinion). Still, The Big System does basically the same thing, correlating the personality to 5 letters, 4 of which are eerily similar to Jungs system and 1 that correlates to personal health. The facets of the big five act similarly to the cognitive functions in mtbi. By making things more specific and by describing by how different facets/cognitive functions may manifest within a personality and effect each other, it's easier to create accurate personality models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ah I see. J/P cannot, unless you include the cognitive portion of the theory. If you exclude the cognitive functions from the mbti theory and focus on dichotomies, mbti does a very poor job of actually describing an individual (at least in my opinion). Still, The Big System does basically the same thing, correlating the personality to 5 letters, 4 of which are eerily similar to Jungs system and 1 that correlates to personal health. The facets of the big five act similarly to the cognitive functions in mtbi. By making things more specific and by describing by how different facets/cognitive functions may manifest within a personality and effect each other, it's easier to create accurate personality models.
So which cognitive function stack captures a person's nature to be reckless but also self-disciplined?
 

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So which cognitive function stack captures a person's nature to be reckless but also self-disciplined?
I often see this sort of things in Pi doms, specifically Fi doms. Fi as a function is oriented around it's internal values, therefore is more likely than the other perceiving types to be very self-disciplined (especially if paired with a 6 or a 1 fix in enneagram and/or the presence of a sp instinctual varient). Paired with an extroverted perceiving function (Se/Ne) provides a more easy going or even reckless attitude. Think of the "controlled risk taker," one who knows where the limits are and will adhere to their values, but aren't afraid to test those limits.
 

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In MBTI theory, all of these should either be to the left or to the right, yeah?
No.

The Step II version of the MBTI has five "facets" for each dimension — just as the NEO-PI-R version of the Big Five has six — and it's possible to come out on the J side (for example) of some of them and the P side of the rest.
@Abraxas has helpfully posted the descriptions of the five subfacets of each of the four MBTI dichotomies (from the MBTI Step II Manual), so you can read a lot of the "official" MBTI take on J/P (and/or E/I, S/N or T/F) in these posts:

Extraversion / Introversion
Sensing / Intuition
Thinking / Feeling
Judging / Perceiving
 

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Perceiver. Dutifulness, self-discipline, and self-efficacy are facets of internal organization, so high scores in these domains suggest introverted Judging.

Striving for achievements, being cautious, and being orderly reflect the way you deal with the outside world, so your relatively low scores in these domains suggest extraverted Perceiving.

Where did you get these results?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Perceiver. Dutifulness, self-discipline, and self-efficacy are facets of internal organization, so high scores in these domains suggest introverted Judging.

Striving for achievements, being cautious, and being orderly reflect the way you deal with the outside world, so your relatively low scores in these domains suggest extraverted Perceiving.

Where did you get these results?
IPIP-300 test.
 

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Kinda weird seeing people that know their basic facets but seek a determinant factor to merge it all in... Its like wanting to know less about oneself, heh.
 

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Kinda weird seeing people that know their basic facets but seek a determinant factor to merge it all in... Its like wanting to know less about oneself, heh.
It's convenient to have a category to place yourself in. It is worth noting that MBTI encourages this type of behavior too, since which category you end up in has wide-reaching implications.
 

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J types are a lot more structured and organized than p types, we have to try harder for organization.
 

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Congrats, youve found why MBTI is not taken seriously anymore (if it ever was) :wink:
 

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@SuperfluousNinja apart from the fact, which you already know, that high conscientiousness tends to correlate with a J preference and low conscientiousness with a P preference, I can't tell you whether any particular mixture of conscientiousness facets would make you more likely a J or a P. For that, it would be helpful to know which big five facets correlate most strongly with the MBTI. The MBTI does have its own system of facets, so you could, for example, come out on the J side of three of them and on the P side of the other two. But I don't know what the correlations are on the facet level. (Does anyone know which J/P facets correlate with which conscientiousness facets?)

That probably doesn't help you much with your question, but there's a lot of research that either hasn't been done or that I don't know about, and it would help if we had that information, so I'm hoping someone here can tell us more about how the facets in the two systems correlate, if that's even a thing that's been studied. In any case, I'm interested in your question because I've had my own confusion with J/P.

As for the cognitive functions, and the idea that everyone's either internally J and externally P, or internally P and externally J, well, first of all, WTF does that even mean? What exactly is this distinction between internally J and externally J? Because external stuff, like your lifestyle, has to come from some kind of internal motivation or attitude. And, secondly, even if we know what it would mean to be internally or externally J or P, can we really be so sure that everyone who's internally J is externally P, and everyone who's internally P is externally J?
@StunnedFox you may be interested in this thread. I was going to call you too, @reckful, but you got here before me.
 

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I'm hoping someone here can tell us more about how the facets in the two systems correlate, if that's even a thing that's been studied. In any case, I'm interested in your question because I've had my own confusion with J/P.
I'm not aware of any studies involving J/P-Conscientiousness correlations at the facet level, although that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any. But I also think the J/P facets are less interesting than I would have hoped, in the sense that, like the five T/F facets, they seem very similar to each other. If you read the J/P descriptions in Gifts Differing, you'll find a significantly richer and more varied collection of J and P personality characteristics than you'll find in the J/P facet descriptions.
 

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I'm not aware of any studies involving J/P-Conscientiousness correlations at the facet level, although that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any. But I also think the J/P facets are less interesting than I would have hoped, in the sense that, like the five T/F facets, they seem very similar to each other. If you read the J/P descriptions in Gifts Differing, you'll find a significantly richer and more varied collection of J and P personality characteristics than you'll find in the J/P facet descriptions.
That’s interesting. I’ve read both Gifts Differing and the J/P facet descriptions, but hadn’t thought of comparing the two sources. Isn’t there something in the manual saying that the facets, taken together, aren’t meant to cover all the characteristics covered by the dimension they’re associated with? I’m sure I recall someone, quite possibly you, posting something like that. Do you (reckful or anyone else who has thoughts on the questions in this post) think the conscientiousness facets are more interesting/worthwhile than the J/P facets? Do you think that, in general, the Big Five facets for each dimension are better than the facets for the corresponding MBTI dimension? Why are the MBTI and Big Five facets so different, I wonder? I agree that the facets are very similar, to the point of being hard to distinguish, and I guess that’s at least one respect in which the Big Five is doing better.
 
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