[purrmonsterr]

I didn't really know where to put this so I'll just start a new thread, hope that's ok.

So I'm an INTJ female dating an ENFP male. It seems that most of the reasons I was attracted to him in the beginning of our relationship are the very reasons I'm about to lose my mind 3 years later. He was passionate, caring and easy going, but now that passion is just a drain on my ever-shrinking energy supply, his caring has turned into a smothering neediness and his easy going attitude is more like just not caring about anything important in his life including responsibilities, his future, even showering or brushing his teeth. To put it harshly, he's kind of a loser and I just don't like him.

He wants me to be his mother and dote on him and take care of all of his responsibilities for him and I am NOT that kind of woman. I expect a life partner to be my equal, not my child. With all that said, he is a good guy. I know he'll make some girl the happiest, luckiest person and he deserves the same, but in the words of Johnny Cash, it ain't me babe.

Obviously I need to break up with him and I told him so the other day but our lives are very intertwined after 3 years together so it's not as easy as just saying "see ya" and being done with it as we share a home, bills, debts, etc. And also because he still thinks we're going to be married and have babies and live happily every after (even after the break up talk). He's acting like everything is the same and he'll probably try to have sex with me but even the thought makes me cringe.

I would just like some tips on how to handle him, myself and the situation in general while we finalize this thing.

 

[INeverJustThink]

Is he 22-26. Sounds like most guys I know that age. Lol, I'm an INTJ and I know that I went through an impulsive loser phase myself until I finally found my life's work. However, if you see no end in sight and you need it to be over you just tell them its over, move on, and make a clear distinction in how you interact after that point. Use your reason to think about how best to settle your mutual finances. (personally I would never share anything financially with anyone unless married). I would also be honest with him. Let him know the things that he's doing that makes him so unattractive to you right now. And speak to him rationally. Logical thinking actually helps calm people down. (Which is why I think us INTJs are so stoic) btw, I'm not sure I've ever met an INTJ female before

 

[phony]

He was passionate, caring and easy going, but now that passion is just a drain on my ever-shrinking energy supply, his caring has turned into a smothering neediness and his easy going attitude is more like just not caring about anything important in his life including responsibilities, his future, even showering or brushing his teeth. To put it harshly, he's kind of a loser and I just don't like him.

Maybe he's depressed.

 

[purrmonsterr]

Is he 22-26. Sounds like most guys I know that age. Lol, I'm an INTJ and I know that I went through an impulsive loser phase myself until I finally found my life's work. However, if you see no end in sight and you need it to be over you just tell them its over, move on, and make a clear distinction in how you interact after that point. Use your reason to think about how best to settle your mutual finances. (personally I would never share anything financially with anyone unless married). I would also be honest with him. Let him know the things that he's doing that makes him so unattractive to you right now. And speak to him rationally. Logical thinking actually helps calm people down. (Which is why I think us INTJs are so stoic) btw, I'm not sure I've ever met an INTJ female before

Yes, he's 24 and I'm 25. I've often wondered if it's an age thing and something he'll outgrow but I don't think I want to wait it out. I can see him becoming very motivated once he finds a calling but he's resistant to anything new or different and he holds himself back because of it. He's very insecure about his abilities (or lack of) but makes little to no effort to improve and I just can't imagine myself waiting around for him to overcome it.

The only reason we share finances is because we've lived together for some time now so both of our names are on leases and bills, stuff like that. Thank god nothing major. How do people get through divorce? That's probably the 2nd reason I'll never marry. Eek.

I always speak to him rationally and I think my emotional disconnect makes him even more insecure about his own emotions so he tends to explode. However, when we had our talk he started by saying he was going to try not being emotional and he really did make an effort. I can't believe the difference it made in our communication. I opened up more in that hour than in all of our time together before. But it didn't last and I don't know if we'll ever be able to break that barrier.

I have a vision of my future and I just don't see him in it unless he changes drastically, but I know that it's unreasonable of me to expect that. I don't want to be unfair to him but I also don't want to rip his soul to shreds which is what would happen if I left and that's what I'm most concerned about. Like I said, he's a good guy and I don't want to be the one to do that to him but I also don't want to lead him on or stay in a relationship that I'm unhappy with.

Like you said, I need to make a clean break but man it's just so hard. So many things to consider. I often picture him dating this girl I work with, I think they would be perfect together. If I could arrange that somehow I would feel a lot better.

You were right on the money about most of this and I appreciate your response and advice. I don't know if I've met an INTJ anybody irl but I didn't really know what it meant until recently anyway. I've typed several people I know or knew and I haven't applied INTJ to anyone yet but then I'm just guessing.

Maybe he's depressed.

I could probably deal with that if it were the case but he actively and enthusiastically dismisses simple responsibilities because he assumes someone else will be there to catch his fall. He has a lot of insecurities and maybe I should look more into that and the affect it has on his actions and choices but I don't know what I could do about it anyway.

 

[INeverJustThink]

Well you are both still young. So even ending it now doesnt mean 10 years from now you wont bump into each other and fall in love all over again. (Im not saying its likely) You may see no future with him the way things are going now, but maybe this is the wake-up call he needs. Trying to set him up with someone else would be very offensive IMO. If you really wanted to do this you couldn't make it known however, it would probably do a good job communicating how serious you are with your desire to move on. And thats the important thing. He has to believe he's lost you in order for him to move on. Since he's an intuitive feeler this realization will not come until he's seen it in your actions. He will naturally be reading between the lines for whats real as an intuitive similar to what we do, but he will be watching your actions, and attitude in order to probe for what you are really feeling. If he's really lost you. Since he is a P type, its going to take a lot of information in order for him to finally make the judgement that its over so he can start to move on. Although ENFPs are my favorite P types, I find them frustratingly stubborn (most P types) Which was surprising to me. I thought the PERCEIVING trait would mean that you are less stubborn at first but instead I've found that P types have a very hard time changing their opinion (once they finally form one) and conceding a good argument when they have an indefensible position (because they think there could be a better argument out there somewhere that really makes them right if only they knew it) I get really frustrated with people who can't make the judgement that their position is wrong, or wont tell you you're right when you just proved it. Thats what I love about our type, we seem stubborn but its only because we have extremely well thought out reasons for our positions but if someone trumps us with a better argument, we quickly concede. ;-)

Goodluck

 

[ilythia]

I didn't really know where to put this so I'll just start a new thread, hope that's ok.

So I'm an INTJ female dating an ENFP male. It seems that most of the reasons I was attracted to him in the beginning of our relationship are the very reasons I'm about to lose my mind 3 years later. He was passionate, caring and easy going, but now that passion is just a drain on my ever-shrinking energy supply, his caring has turned into a smothering neediness and his easy going attitude is more like just not caring about anything important in his life including responsibilities, his future, even showering or brushing his teeth. To put it harshly, he's kind of a loser and I just don't like him.

He wants me to be his mother and dote on him and take care of all of his responsibilities for him and I am NOT that kind of woman. I expect a life partner to be my equal, not my child. With all that said, he is a good guy. I know he'll make some girl the happiest, luckiest person and he deserves the same, but in the words of Johnny Cash, it ain't me babe.

Obviously I need to break up with him and I told him so the other day but our lives are very intertwined after 3 years together so it's not as easy as just saying "see ya" and being done with it as we share a home, bills, debts, etc. And also because he still thinks we're going to be married and have babies and live happily every after (even after the break up talk). He's acting like everything is the same and he'll probably try to have sex with me but even the thought makes me cringe.

I would just like some tips on how to handle him, myself and the situation in general while we finalize this thing.

I don't think I'll ever be in a relationship with an ENFP.

They're great as friends and conversation, but they have these commitment problems and I really want some consistency in my relationships. They can also be quite vain which I find unattractive. I have an extremely inconsistent ENFP friend and everytime I'm with him I become more certain that I would never commit to that type.

I know the INTJ-ENFP connection is legendary and idealized by so many. But I don't understand its magic.

The thing with such people as you described (but not just ENFP) is that they become more attracted when they feel that someone is slipping from their grasp. I've noticed this in my ENFP friend. When I detach from him and not talk to him for days or weeks he keeps messaging me about random things to start conversation. But when I become engaged in him he just becomes bored. I find this behavior annoying sometimes. This isn't to speak for all ENFP of course. I'm in no way generalizing.

They are also quite irresponsible in my view. It's difficult to sustain a marriage with an irresponsible husband/father. Maybe the ENFP wife/mother would fare better but it's harder to deal if it were the father. My ENFP friend is afraid of having children and getting married in general. Again, not a generalization.

My theory is that the INTJ-ENFP pairing might only work if the INTJ is the male and not the female.

 

[purrmonsterr]

I don't think I'll ever be in a relationship with an ENFP.

They're great as friends and conversation, but they have these commitment problems and I really want some consistency in my relationships. They can also be quite vain which I find unattractive. I have an extremely inconsistent ENFP friend and everytime I'm with him I become more certain that I would never commit to that type.

I know the INTJ-ENFP connection is legendary and idealized by so many. But I don't understand its magic.

The thing with such people as you described (but not just ENFP) is that they become more attracted when they feel that someone is slipping from their grasp. I've noticed this in my ENFP friend. When I detach from him and not talk to him for days or weeks he keeps messaging me about random things to start conversation. But when I become engaged in him he just becomes bored. I find this behavior annoying sometimes. This isn't to speak for all ENFP of course. I'm in no way generalizing.

They are also quite irresponsible in my view. It's difficult to sustain a marriage with an irresponsible husband/father. Maybe the ENFP wife/mother would fare better but it's harder to deal if it were the father. My ENFP friend is afraid of having children and getting married in general. Again, not a generalization.

My theory is that the INTJ-ENFP pairing might only work if the INTJ is the male and not the female.

I observed all of the things you mentioned with my ENFP and that's why I finally moved out (last week, yay!). Although we agreed to continue dating, I don't think it will work out.

I'm interested in your theory about male INTJ/female ENFP relationships. It actually makes a lot of sense to me and I'll probably be doing a little research into that. Thanks for your input.

 

[Jason43]

You're an INTJ who has decided you're out. There's no way to unhurt him. You just need to be done and get it over with.

 

[ilythia]

I observed all of the things you mentioned with my ENFP and that's why I finally moved out (last week, yay!). Although we agreed to continue dating, I don't think it will work out.

I'm interested in your theory about male INTJ/female ENFP relationships. It actually makes a lot of sense to me and I'll probably be doing a little research into that. Thanks for your input.

One probability is that the INTJ "typical" characteristics are more in tune with the idealized version of the male in society, and the ENFP "typical" characteristics are more in tune with the idealized version of the female in society.

Namely:

INTJ characteristics - quiet, unexpressive, brilliant, blunt, powerful, independent, etc.
ENFP characteristics - idealistic, passionate, warm, considerate, dramatic, etc.

Now, this presents a great chance for the female ENFP and male INTJ combination to work out because there isn't much of a conflict of sex roles in their dynamic. But for the female INTJ and male ENFP, conflict might arise because of the confusing sex roles. Who gets to lead? Who should plan for the future? Who should apologize first? Certain questions come up that can frustrate both parties.

Have you ever experienced men being too intimidated of you to ask you out? That's probably because of the INTJ characteristics being associated with masculinity. But you're still a woman, and you'd probably still want a man who is stronger than you and can challenge you. So, as you take care of your irresponsible ENFP and wear the pants, that could eat at you.

So, why is the ENFP-INTJ dynamic so legendary? I'm guessing it's because there are much more female ENFPs than male ENFPs, and more male INTJs than female INTJs. A little bit of arithmetic, and the male-INTJ-to-female-ENFP combinations easily outnumber the female-INTJ-to-male-ENFP combinations. The feedback that the combination is a gift from the gods has more representation.