hah. fair point well made.I think that's a very Ni thing to expect. I find Ne users can have a lot of trouble sticking to the topic or even knowing what the topic is sometimes.
yeah . . . it's a gamut, and i pretty much spoke to the strong end of the curve to make that particular point. it's a point that is valid but it's not a point that is always in play. for myself, the degree of annoyance that's based on derailment alone is mostly based on how much i'm invested, i think. not to sound too precious about it, conversations that genuinely interest me are pretty hard to come by, so i take the loss of one of them like a deprivation. i can live along with the general flow and just kind of make my own entertainment along the way, don't get me wrong. but it's always a disappointment when something seems to be going to be genuinely interesting . . . and then just kind of devolves back into that same-old type turf that pretty much all conversations seem to take place on.Also, could be a type thing or just me but I had no idea that form of "derailment" could be so annoying.
i can go either way about it, depending on individual case. can bend the conversation's wrist up between its shoulderblades and frogmarch it straight on down the same line that it started out on. or i can just let it go and bow my real self out while leaving a shadow presence behind to continue, for decorum's sake. so it's not like it cannot be managed.
i can see that. it's not that different from work-related things where people wander too wide, yeah. i guess the difference is that i enjoy conversations but i'm pretty desultory in my own contribution to many of them. i'm not sure if it's really true to say 'if i'm actually participating then i'm invested.' but i think ti's pretty true to say that anything that elicits any form of personal disclosure is . . . yeah, i probably am. on the other hand, if i'm not and then someone tries to emo-grope me i'll probably take exception anyway - on some level.The only time I recognize derailments in conversations is on forums and scheduled meetings where you have threads or agendas dedicated to specific topics. Aside from that I wouldn't care enough to get annoyed.
hah. idk, maybe topic evolution is fine. i guess the best advice i can give is probably more like: when you're talking to an intj, try to deal with their input on its merits. and bear in mind that they're probably interested in the ideas. so i sometimes feel like poor salman rushdie.But now I know not to go off-topic with an INTJ. :tongue:
he said when the satanic verses came out and there was all that kerfuffle, his constant plea to the west was 'please criticize the text'. and of course nobody did. to this day, i bet if you found 50 people who still have an opinion about that whole thing, maybe 15 would have actually read the damn book. the rest would just want to be posturing about freedom of speech and religion blah blah.
and of those 15 who took the trouble to read it, i make a random guess that you might find TWO who had anything whatever to say about the book itself. just as a book.
i think you're right in general. i did take your remark as an observation of what you think is probably going on with the folks-who-do-this. so me getting onto a personal soapbox about that is a jumping of the contextual rails as well. there's no real way for one member of the general public to know that the other member of hte general public they're talking to is an intj, so the generic play-it-safe rule is the explanation that does make sense.I think what I meant by the "safest course of action" was based on my inf-Fe phobias and my experiences with family members.
oh god, that is just-kill-me-now turf. i have to say though, rarely [never] do i ever get the vibe that any person who pulled the robotic sorry-to-hear-that on me was feeling even the remotest, most infinitesimal flicker of any fear that i might do something like that to them. i honestly don't think i vibe like a person who needs or wants the world's sympathy, so it's a bafflement to me why so many seem to insist on applying it anyway.I've had them blow up at me multiple times for not being sympathetic enough,