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I think that's a very Ni thing to expect. I find Ne users can have a lot of trouble sticking to the topic or even knowing what the topic is sometimes.
hah. fair point well made.

Also, could be a type thing or just me but I had no idea that form of "derailment" could be so annoying.
yeah . . . it's a gamut, and i pretty much spoke to the strong end of the curve to make that particular point. it's a point that is valid but it's not a point that is always in play. for myself, the degree of annoyance that's based on derailment alone is mostly based on how much i'm invested, i think. not to sound too precious about it, conversations that genuinely interest me are pretty hard to come by, so i take the loss of one of them like a deprivation. i can live along with the general flow and just kind of make my own entertainment along the way, don't get me wrong. but it's always a disappointment when something seems to be going to be genuinely interesting . . . and then just kind of devolves back into that same-old type turf that pretty much all conversations seem to take place on.

i can go either way about it, depending on individual case. can bend the conversation's wrist up between its shoulderblades and frogmarch it straight on down the same line that it started out on. or i can just let it go and bow my real self out while leaving a shadow presence behind to continue, for decorum's sake. so it's not like it cannot be managed.

The only time I recognize derailments in conversations is on forums and scheduled meetings where you have threads or agendas dedicated to specific topics. Aside from that I wouldn't care enough to get annoyed.
i can see that. it's not that different from work-related things where people wander too wide, yeah. i guess the difference is that i enjoy conversations but i'm pretty desultory in my own contribution to many of them. i'm not sure if it's really true to say 'if i'm actually participating then i'm invested.' but i think ti's pretty true to say that anything that elicits any form of personal disclosure is . . . yeah, i probably am. on the other hand, if i'm not and then someone tries to emo-grope me i'll probably take exception anyway - on some level.

But now I know not to go off-topic with an INTJ. :tongue:
hah. idk, maybe topic evolution is fine. i guess the best advice i can give is probably more like: when you're talking to an intj, try to deal with their input on its merits. and bear in mind that they're probably interested in the ideas. so i sometimes feel like poor salman rushdie.

he said when the satanic verses came out and there was all that kerfuffle, his constant plea to the west was 'please criticize the text'. and of course nobody did. to this day, i bet if you found 50 people who still have an opinion about that whole thing, maybe 15 would have actually read the damn book. the rest would just want to be posturing about freedom of speech and religion blah blah.

and of those 15 who took the trouble to read it, i make a random guess that you might find TWO who had anything whatever to say about the book itself. just as a book.

I think what I meant by the "safest course of action" was based on my inf-Fe phobias and my experiences with family members.
i think you're right in general. i did take your remark as an observation of what you think is probably going on with the folks-who-do-this. so me getting onto a personal soapbox about that is a jumping of the contextual rails as well. there's no real way for one member of the general public to know that the other member of hte general public they're talking to is an intj, so the generic play-it-safe rule is the explanation that does make sense.

I've had them blow up at me multiple times for not being sympathetic enough,
oh god, that is just-kill-me-now turf. i have to say though, rarely [never] do i ever get the vibe that any person who pulled the robotic sorry-to-hear-that on me was feeling even the remotest, most infinitesimal flicker of any fear that i might do something like that to them. i honestly don't think i vibe like a person who needs or wants the world's sympathy, so it's a bafflement to me why so many seem to insist on applying it anyway.
 

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"Back in the day", when I was still stupid enough to try and have an at least semi intelligent conversation with someone, and people would ask about my back ground, etc - growing up , family etc - the general small talk icebreaker shit and I would like tell them the truth about how I grew up in a series of foster homes, was never adopted, blah ,blah, blah.........



<<<<<<<<--------------------take it frum a koon!

..........and they would be like "Oh thats so sad" along with many of its derivations, etc. and I would be like , yeah well I'm kinda over it since I was 10 or 11 and seeing as I'm sort of an adult now and in fact I'm living proof that parents are totally overrated anyhow........ :ambivalence::idunno:
Lol I do that to this day
When some nosy fuck asks me about my fams and other personal info
I tell them that my parents died in a meth lab explosions back in 69
I was raised by my god parents who were black native Americans :shocked:

When I meet some one for the first time and they ask for my name I will give them my real 1st name
Than for unknown reasons they insist on my surname
I will often make one up
I don’t feel comfortable giving a total stranger my last name
 

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Lol I do that to this day
When some nosy fuck asks me about my fams and other personal info
I tell them that my parents died in a meth lab explosions back in 69
I was raised by my god parents who were black native Americans :shocked:

<<<<<<<----------------------take it frum a koon!

When I meet some one for the first time and they ask for my name I will give them my real 1st name
Than for unknown reasons they insist on my surname
I will often make one up
I don’t feel comfortable giving a total stranger my last name
Ehzakly! Tell em ur name is Jack.
"Ohhh SOooo glad to mee u too. Yeah I'm Jack! Jack Meekhoff."
 

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Wrong silly thread. Move along.
 

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For the past week I've been messaging a man I met on a dating site. He said he tested as INTJ. I get that he is a science guy and loner, which is great; I myself shy away from those who describe themselves as romantic or cuddly.

In his profile he described his personal qualities and what he was looking for in a close relationship. There was also a bit of humor and self-deprecation, e.g., "Weird, huh?"

His first one or two messages contained some of the above elements as well. But the last few have been quite impersonal, with discussions about science, history, work (we're both retired), fitness activities, and so on.

When I try to steer the conversation in another direction, it falls flat. For example, I told him why his profile picture caught my eye (it suggested certain qualities that I was looking for), and he responded by telling me where the photo was taken.

It is really a treat to find someone who is intelligent and can discuss anything under the sun. But on the personal side, he seems to have shut down rather than open up. We might never run out of things to discuss, but that doesn't mean we're relationship material.

Any thoughts on this, or suggestions for opening up other areas of discussion? I don't mean heavy relationship talk, just something maybe more lighthearted or personal, so we can get to know each other on other levels. He's shown that he's capable.
 

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For the past week I've been messaging a man I met on a dating site. He said he tested as INTJ. I get that he is a science guy and loner, which is great; I myself shy away from those who describe themselves as romantic or cuddly.
That's him; that's you.



In his profile he described his personal qualities and what he was looking for in a close relationship. There was also a bit of humor and self-deprecation, e.g., "Weird, huh?"
How close do you fit his bill?



His first one or two messages contained some of the above elements as well. But the last few have been quite impersonal, with discussions about science, history, work (we're both retired), fitness activities, and so on.
That's him. He wants to see if you like that.



When I try to steer the conversation in another direction, it falls flat. For example, I told him why his profile picture caught my eye (it suggested certain qualities that I was looking for), and he responded by telling me where the photo was taken.
You want to control him?



It is really a treat to find someone who is intelligent and can discuss anything under the sun. But on the personal side, he seems to have shut down rather than open up. We might never run out of things to discuss, but that doesn't mean we're relationship material.
Keep going until you discover something?


Any thoughts on this, or suggestions for opening up other areas of discussion? I don't mean heavy relationship talk, just something maybe more lighthearted or personal, so we can get to know each other on other levels. He's shown that he's capable.
Listen to what he has to say and give a reaction. See if he elaborates or shuts it off. Maybe he will like you. Maybe not.
 

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@BigApplePi asked, and I reply:

--How close do you fit his bill?

Very well, according to the brief description on his profile. I'm careful to avoid contacting/responding to anyone I think I can't please, can't keep up with, etc.

--You want to control him?

No, I wanted to change the subject. I think it's reasonable and necessary to discuss what each of us wants. He used this kind of vocabulary in his profile and first messages. I don't know whether he doesn't want to talk about it any more, or doesn't want to yet, or.... Just trying to understand.

Also, I'd like to know other aspects of his personality. Humor, values, etc.

I was wondering if there was a particular way I should ask him things. Or whether we're "too much alike" and I don't have the means of drawing him out that, say, a feeler or extrovert might have.

--Listen to what he has to say and give a reaction. See if he elaborates or shuts it off. Maybe he will like you. Maybe not.

Okay. He writes a few paragraphs daily, as do I. I guess that's good. Thanks!
 

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For the past week I've been messaging a man I met on a dating site. He said he tested as INTJ. I get that he is a science guy and loner, which is great; I myself shy away from those who describe themselves as romantic or cuddly.

In his profile he described his personal qualities and what he was looking for in a close relationship. There was also a bit of humor and self-deprecation, e.g., "Weird, huh?"

His first one or two messages contained some of the above elements as well. But the last few have been quite impersonal, with discussions about science, history, work (we're both retired), fitness activities, and so on.

When I try to steer the conversation in another direction, it falls flat. For example, I told him why his profile picture caught my eye (it suggested certain qualities that I was looking for), and he responded by telling me where the photo was taken.

It is really a treat to find someone who is intelligent and can discuss anything under the sun. But on the personal side, he seems to have shut down rather than open up. We might never run out of things to discuss, but that doesn't mean we're relationship material.

Any thoughts on this, or suggestions for opening up other areas of discussion? I don't mean heavy relationship talk, just something maybe more lighthearted or personal, so we can get to know each other on other levels. He's shown that he's capable.
It's possible that he's not into you like that (yet).

A dude I'm talking to complained about me being impersonal at first. That was because I wasn't thinking of him as a romantic interest or even a friend, since we became acquainted for the purpose of learning.

I put people in boxes, so if this person is an e-buddy, that's where they'll remain until they (virtually) raise their hand to say they like me like that. (Yes, even people I meet on dating sites. I treat everyone as a virtual friend first). Once that info is made clear, I don't have an issue with "opening up." In fact, I'm happy to offer information as they need so that they can evaluate me properly.

Anyway, had he not explicitly asked for more info because he wanted to know me on a deeper level, I would have remained a clueless ninny talking about music and current events.
 

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@islandlight.

When I read your post I sort of forgot this was an INTJ thread. I'd say go to "Ask INTJ's Questions" thread. Find out everything you can about INTJs. They are Ni, not Ti. You won't know right away what that Ni is about. They are Te, not Ne. As an INTP you will be willing to be all over the place with your Ne. Not so with INTJs. Their way of talking will be with reasonable Te. I don't know how biased I am about INTJs, but I think of them as being narrow, but smart compared to me. I'm not as narrow ... whatever that means. It's the Ti. They are not interested in wild Ti thinking.
 

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Thank you both.

Things seem to have opened up a bit. Questions seem to be key. Not personal questions, but asking for details or opinions about the facts that have been mentioned. Now we're finding out a bit more about what the other thinks is stupid, unfair, etc.

I find descriptions and even examples of Ni difficult to understand. At least so far he seems to find my stuff interesting rather than shocking.

I thought I sort of knew what Te was, but maybe I'll review that too. And of course INTJs in particular.

I believe my daughter is INTJ, and I think of her as the sanest person I know. But her life is on rails--mine being a trainwreck by comparison.

I can see that dating guy is focused. Even though he's done with all the build-a-career raise-a-family stuff, he obviously has some kind of plan for the next stage of his life.

@ponpiri , I can be a clueless ninny too, in similar ways.
 

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Thank you both.

Things seem to have opened up a bit. Questions seem to be key. Not personal questions, but asking for details or opinions about the facts that have been mentioned. Now we're finding out a bit more about what the other thinks is stupid, unfair, etc.

I find descriptions and even examples of Ni difficult to understand. At least so far he seems to find my stuff interesting rather than shocking.

I thought I sort of knew what Te was, but maybe I'll review that too. And of course INTJs in particular.

I believe my daughter is INTJ, and I think of her as the sanest person I know. But her life is on rails--mine being a trainwreck by comparison.

I can see that dating guy is focused. Even though he's done with all the build-a-career raise-a-family stuff, he obviously has some kind of plan for the next stage of his life.

@ponpiri , I can be a clueless ninny too, in similar ways.
I'd guess he's interested even if he doesn't exactly know how to talk about it. If you weren't interesting to talk to, he'd just ghost you, and if you were only interesting as friend material (actually, never underestimate that as a way into a guy's pants), he'd only talk to you on rare occasions when he was feeling sociable.

Suggestion: Ask him about his future plans and whether he sees room in those plans for a new love interest. Tell him about your plans and how he might fit into those. If you want him to open up more, ask "what if" questions that require both thought and a little bit of emotional vulnerability, not enough to be scary, but enough to feel a connection with the person shared with. Then get more daring with the questions as you go.
 
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Thank you, @xwsmithx . I've taken notes.

He's commented that he finds various aspects of my life interesting. That's a nice change from most people, who find me either boring or weird.

He has spelled out (in his profile) what he's looking for; I guess I could ask for more detail.

I wanted someone local, and he lives 3 hours away. But his photo (a nice science guy with a backpack) and profile blew me away. He has suggested meeting halfway between our towns for an initial meeting of one hour. Very practical! So we'll see how that goes.

Unfortunately, I hate asking personal questions. I think it will go fine, whatever the outcome. For show and tell, I'll show him how I've modded my car, as he's into that. Who wants to sit and talk for a whole hour?
 
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