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I can't handle goofy.

I can be flexible about a lot of nuances and idiosyncrasies but... I just... Goofy is a turnoff for me major.

I grew up in a very stern and stoic household and have grown to value that. Unfortunately it's been my experience that everything is great during the initial dating/ honeymoon phase then it's like, the goofy ball drops outta nowhere and it's soon over.
 

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I can't handle goofy.

I can be flexible about a lot of nuances and idiosyncrasies but... I just... Goofy is a turnoff for me major.

I grew up in a very stern and stoic household and have grown to value that. Unfortunately it's been my experience that everything is great during the initial dating/ honeymoon phase then it's like, the goofy ball drops outta nowhere and it's soon over.
I've not had goofy show up. Usually possessiveness, or a control freak...then I'm out.
 

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I've not had goofy show up. Usually possessiveness, or a control freak...then I'm out.
I've a few of that- but either I shut it down quick and its no longer an issue, or I realize it's a deep- seeded issue that I want no part of and I'm out.

Either way possessiveness rears its head early on. Goofy sometimes takes quite awhile to manifest.
 

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I used to have the most passive aggressive, gossipy ESFJ housemate ever. It was hilarious. I'd hear him gossiping behind my back and then, when he was confronted, grovel and BS to my face. I once heard him gossiping about how "I never gossip about her, that's ridiculous!" :laughing:
Part of me wonders if it's just a mom thing or maybe a mom with an ENTJ female daughter. :)

My mom is an ENFJ and likewise is always telling me I should change; I tell her that's about as likely as her changing.
I don't get why people think they even have the right to expect you to change who you are. You are who you are, and if they don't like it, they can vote with their feet and problem solved, as far as I'm concerned.

I find that Fe people just in general have a shaky understanding of the cognitive developmental milestone Theory of Mind, and I've not met many Fe Sensors who understand it at all. It is as if they literally do not grasp that others are not carbon copies of them, and hence project their own motivations, intentions, feelings, etc. on others fucking CONSTANTLY.

As if this wasn't bad enough, just to add insult to injury, they will then turn around and project their tendency to project onto other people, too. :frustrating:
 

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I don't get why people think they even have the right to expect you to change who you are. You are who you are, and if they don't like it, they can vote with their feet and problem solved, as far as I'm concerned.

I find that Fe people just in general have an imperfect understanding of the cognitive developmental milestone theory of mind, and I've not met too many Fe Sensors who understand it at all. It is as if they literally do not grasp that others are not carbon copies of them, and hence project their own motivations, intentions, feelings, etc. on others fucking CONSTANTLY.
This is eye- opening.
Explains why my mom kept trying to 'turn me straight' through church, Jesus, praying away the gay, & attempting to force men into my life.

Even gave my cell number to an ex-con who served a decade for drug and gang related charges.

How did she meet him?

In the prisoner reentry program she helped fund at the local community center.

Growing up with her was exhausting.
 

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I don't get why people think they even have the right to expect you to change who you are. You are who you are, and if they don't like it, they can vote with their feet and problem solved, as far as I'm concerned.

I find that Fe people just in general have an imperfect understanding of the cognitive developmental milestone theory of mind, and I've not met too many Fe Sensors who understand it at all. It is as if they literally do not grasp that others are not carbon copies of them, and hence project their own motivations, intentions, feelings, etc. on others fucking CONSTANTLY.
Exactly. For my mum, there's something "in it for her" if she can change me, but with my housemate it wasn't even that. We didn't have much in common and hanging out was unproductive - he usually spent a large part of it bitching about mutual friends :rolleyes:. As for his gossip about me, it was just saying things I did that weren't even negative in a way that made them sound melodramatic and negative, like "She has a CAR... not sure if she ever uses it."

Their own motivations or their friends'. True conversation between an ESFJ female friend and an ISFP one who was crying about her singlehood one time:

ISFP: I'm so ugly, guys never look at me!
ESFJ: Oh, they do, of course they do! Here's a secret: guys grow up less fast than girls. Me, for instance, my boyfriend's the same age and SO much less mature than me.
ISFP: I'm not most guys' "type".
ESFJ: People have different types! My best friend Annie, you know my best friend? We were watching that movie the other day, Step Up, with Channing Tatum in it? Have you seen him? He's smoking hot, I totally would! And she was like "I don't find him hot at all..." He's gorgeous!

In the end I had to step in, not great with crying people but weirdly with my Fi I was able to console her much better than ESFJ friend.
 

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This is eye- opening.
Explains why my mom kept trying to 'turn me straight' through church, Jesus, praying away the gay, & attempting to force men into my life.

Even gave my cell number to an ex-con who served a decade for drug and gang related charges.

How did she meet him?

In the prisoner reentry program she helped fund at the local community center.

Growing up with her was exhausting.
 

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1) Once I honestly start giving a damn about them as a person -- not as a data point or some kind of case study, not as some kind of function or service provided, but as a person -- I become vulnerable. This occurs whenever there's an "Fi Fortress" breach, whether it is alloyed with romantic feelings or not. But in the case of a romantic relationship, there is ALWAYS an accompanying breach. Granted, my romantic relationship sample size is pretty small -- only two, and I'll be 39 this September -- but both were like this, and the dynamic (romantic relationship = requires trust and giving a damn about them as a person = Fi fortress breach) is the main reason why there's only been two.
More than two for me...but, I'm older...Your words described exactly how I think all relationships work for me. And once someone is behind the fortress and starts stabbing at the vulnerable side, they're catapulted out.
 

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What's the image? File shows as corrupted/ broken link.
Alternatively



(if these ones don't show, it's just Martin Freeman pointing above him saying "What the fuck is that?")
 

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This is eye- opening.
Explains why my mom kept trying to 'turn me straight' through church, Jesus, praying away the gay, & attempting to force men into my life.

Even gave my cell number to an ex-con who served a decade for drug and gang related charges.

How did she meet him?

In the prisoner reentry program she helped fund at the local community center.

Growing up with her was exhausting.
What's your mother's type? As exhausting as my mother is sometimes, she'd never give my number to an ex con!!!
 

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How do you deal with people you're interested in who are worse with emotions than you are?
 
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Alternatively



(if these ones don't show, it's just Martin Freeman pointing above him saying "What the fuck is that?")
All are quite appropriate, actually.

Also appropriate for her duplicitous tendencies.

Read:

Political & social views that go with the crowd of whoever she's around.

Oh? So now that you're at dinner with Governor Wilder, you're an Insta-democrat? GTFO.
 

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How do you deal with people you're interested in who are worse with emotions than you are?
Is this the INTP guy I think you mentioned on another thread?

Not sure if I'd date someone like that (though I do like INTJ guys...) but I'd say just be straight up and direct, and keep reminding yourself they aren't great with emotions in case they don't give a nice response. (Asked out a very self-centred ISFP dude once... never again...)
 

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All are quite appropriate, actually.

Also appropriate for her duplicitous tendencies.

Read:

Political & social views that go with the crowd of whoever she's around.

Oh? So now that you're at dinner with Governor Wilder, you're an Insta-democrat? GTFO.
People like that actively make me feel unsafe. Like, if you were talking to Hitler, would you suddenly become a Nazi? Are you such a people-pleaser that you won't stand for anything but making people happy?

Reminds me of that recent study that came out of some university. When given directions to by a scientist who seemed to know what they were doing and be in charge, some people (the ones perceived as more "conscientious") would administer electrical shocks to an unknown human subject until the subject died. (The subject was actually just an actor, but the people didn't know that.) Meanwhile, the more "anti-social" people would resist, and the subject would live. It's sickening.

Is this the INTP guy I think you mentioned on another thread?

Not sure if I'd date someone like that (though I do like INTJ guys...) but I'd say just be straight up and direct, and keep reminding yourself they aren't great with emotions in case they don't give a nice response. (Asked out a very self-centred ISFP dude once... never again...)
*sheepish* Yeah. He's driving me crazy so I've been on a bit of rant-fest.

Thanks. I'm trying to do that, but I can't figure out at what point I'm allowed to just throw in the towel and say it's more effort than it's worth.
 

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*sheepish* Yeah. He's driving me crazy so I've been on a bit of rant-fest.

Thanks. I'm trying to do that, but I can't figure out at what point I'm allowed to just throw in the towel and say it's more effort than it's worth.
We've all been there lol :)

Whenever you want TBH. I don't usually like these "relationship guru" books, but there's one called He's Just Not That Into You I read a while back, which had some very good advice that, if someone doesn't make you happy (before or after you start dating them) they're not worth it.

I had a tendency to go for "difficult" guys myself (usually the "complicated," "deep" ones) because I felt that I wasn't worthy of the "normal," emotionally available sort. I'm not sure if this is an NT girl thing, as my ENTP friend has similar things to deal with. Sometimes the smartest, most intriguing guys are the most horrible when it comes to treating women right. The trick is finding a guy you relate to/is intellectual enough without being socially stunted and who is able and willing to empathise enough for a good relationship. Sometimes actively looking for another guy with all/most of the good (but not bad) characteristics of the one you liked helps.

If you must go for it, don't take what he does too personally I guess? Gl anyway :kitteh:
 

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...but I can't figure out at what point I'm allowed to just throw in the towel and say it's more effort than it's worth.
Do it sooner, rather than later. From an older, single ENTJ female, it's hard enough for us to find someone mutually "acceptable."

Just make the distinction between "effort" and "work." All relationships require effort. If it seems like "work," and you or the other person is trying to impose change on the other...NEXT.....
 

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How do you deal with people you're interested in who are worse with emotions than you are?
Honestly I'm still navigating those waters. Too soon for me to give you sound advice.

I will say, my INFP gf is sensitive- but articulates well the 'whys' behind her feels. That helps me to understand her thought process and gives a solid foundation for communication.

She also uses the silent treatment on me whenever I piss her off. I asked her about it and she said it's because she takes time to inwardly figure out things then when she's ready to approach them she confronts me. This is in contrast to my approach, which is address it head on; let the cards fall where they may; and deal with it confrontationally until the matter is resolved.

So I may not agree with why she does or feels certain ways about things or the way she chooses to handle situations. But her willingness to explain it helps our communication.
 
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