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Discussion Starter #1
And I am an INTP- sexual 5w4. Maybe some are going to tell me “because you haven’t been with the right person”. I don’t know what a “right relationship” is. I just know that neither of my dating experiences have been enjoyable. It was like spending time with a stranger who maybe has issues (anger, etc) and if he doesn’t, he was an alien, someone who I can’t consider even my friend. I don’t understand this majority of people who prefer the company of their partner to friends, even in the early phases of relationship when they don’t know each other well, and consider their SO the most intimate person of their life.
I’m pretty sociable for an introvert. I enjoy being with my friends and in group hangouts- sometimes very much. I even managed an amateur little hiking group that left me lots of beautiful memories. I usually feel comfortable and accepted to a good extent among the mentioned friends/acquaintances. I also enjoy spending time alone. For example, if I want to visit my favorite sites of the city I definitely prefer to go there with someone I know appreciates it and I am happy with- it’s never my dates, whose behavior easily disappoints me: not liking what I like, thinking about sexual advances everywhere, nagging about their lives, not sharing my feelings and not enjoying the moment. They often seemed indifferent to these issues though, and just wanted to be with a girl, maybe along with some conventional dating rituals.

That said, while I’m not an often horny person, I’m not asexual/demi-sexual either: I can feel attracted to strangers and fantasize about doing sexy things with them. I have sexual fantasies every single day. I do want sex in my relationships- but admittedly, my experiences haven’t been so exciting as the society and media promised. Maybe boring for the most part.

I have no idea of what an “enjoyable” relationship can be. But I know that mine weren’t. I have to deal with my inferior Fe all the time while I am dating someone; going through mood swings, emotion rushes, unusual stress (I hardly ever am anxious otherwise) and losing my energy without a desirable result.
Does it have anything to do with my Myers Briggs/Enneagram type?
 

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Well, neither of us can say that we precisely know what is "right", it's much easier to realize the things that are not or seem like they are not. It's not like you can fill out a survey and be done with it. It's much more subtle than that.
Of course, you shouldn't continue dating someone with whom you can't connect. People prefer the company of their partner in the early phases because they want to get to know each other better, especially in terms of finding out how much they actually connect. They want to share who they are, and expect the same in return.
And since people are usually in a search for a life partner, which is more than just a friend, dating is supposed to be more intimate.

Maybe you should focus on making more friends first, and then decide who you would like to date within that pool. It will probably make you less irritable, than when you come across someone who is different than you.

And no, I don't think that has anything to do with your type.
 

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"Neither" of your dating experiences? As in all two of them?
I have an urge to pretend you just didn't realize the possibility of the existence of people whose first language isn't English.
 

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I think it might. At least in my experience. What happened with me was that men were attracted to me, but I would intimidate them after a short time. Not because I'm so wonderful and great, but because I didn't know how to do the "girl" things that make them feel reassured. Once I sensed that they were intimidated, I lost respect for them and I would usually leave in a quest to find someone braver. Rinse and repeat.

Meanwhile, I resented that anyone would want me to do those things. (Like be generous with my understanding and not critical as is my nature, smile more, entertain ideas that sound stupid at first so as to determine whether they really are, and if they are, say it nicely and don't castrate the poor man with my unblinking logic, learn to yield, etc.)

Now, I wouldn't have changed except for someone I really loved, but I did, and I did. And do you know what happened? He started acting more like all the guy behaviours guys shouldn't have to do...but it turns out I really liked. Like when he puts his arms around me and tells me he's always going to take care of me. Gag! The old me wouldn't have believed I could like that, but...I do. I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself, but something in my lizard brain just purrs when he says it. And it inspires me to do the girl things above out of gratitude.

Like, seriously...what would happen if you just made him a really good sandwich? It takes five minutes, and coming from a cast-iron bitch like us, it really makes them feel good.

I share this because I think INTP women might be one step removed from these behaviours and have a prejudice (like I did) toward them. We've spent our entire childhood and adolescence being men's equal in every way that matters. We beat them on tests. We got the scholarships over them. So we know our minds are totally equal. For some women who never did kick the boys' asses at everything, these "girl" behaviours might come more naturally. And it's not that men only like one type of women...in many important ways, we are some guys' dream come true. But emotionally, we're all still monkeys, and we're all a product of deep and old cultural traditions. Our brilliance does them no good if we accidentally make their monkey feel like a worm. So some nonsensical feeling rituals can go a long way.

Of course, people are different, one size does not fit all, blah blah blah. However, there are general trends, if you know what I mean. You might not feel connected to these guys because they are afraid of you, so they are withholding anything you might connect with, and you sense that, so you're withholding too. Someone has to stop that cycle, and if they're afraid of you, it's not going to be them.
 

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It was like spending time with a stranger who maybe has issues (anger, etc) and if he doesn’t, he was an alien, someone who I can’t consider even my friend. I don’t understand this majority of people who prefer the company of their partner to friends, even in the early phases of relationship when they don’t know each other well, and consider their SO the most intimate person of their life.

my dates, whose behavior easily disappoints me: not liking what I like, thinking about sexual advances everywhere, nagging about their lives, not sharing my feelings and not enjoying the moment.
Why did you start dating these people in the first place? In my opinion, your partner should be your best friend, or at least best friend material, someone you thoroughly enjoy hanging out with and whom you can share at least some of your passions with. Someone who you care about and who cares about you.

I agree with @EvthingZen, maybe try getting to know some more people first and then see if any of them seem like they could be best friend material, who you could have a romantic relationship with.

However, it's also important that if you feel dissatisfied in a relationship, you discuss this with your partner. No relationship is perfect, but with good communication you can resolve a lot of imperfections.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
http://personalitycafe.com/members/eryngo.html@Eryngo one main issue in my oldest relationships was that I didn't feel heard, because I tried to do what is expected of girls, which left me incredibly resentful. I was a listener and the guy opened up more and more to me, ironically, becoming less and less willing to hear what I said.
I am a masculine girl. Repressing one half of my existence- the masculine side- is like killing a huge part of myself. That said, I appreciate feminine traits in men- in fact I prefer to be with someone who has an androgynous psyche like I do and never lose respect for a man because he isn't brave and manly in the traditional sense of the word, but the opposite: I don't wanna macho, overly confident guys.
The gestures of affection wouldn't mean much for me if I feel a basic lack of understanding- as I did. I am somehow confused about my situation- which is the reason I made such a thread, however my main issue is being unsatisfied in my relationships, and my experience shows that if I try to act like girls should things get much worse. Later I started to express myself in relationships as I am. These weren't happy relationships, either, but at least I felt like a person who conflicts the other because of differences, not an actress who is expected to play a role without being allowed to show her real self.
 

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http://personalitycafe.com/members/eryngo.html@Eryngo one main issue in my oldest relationships was that I didn't feel heard, because I tried to do what is expected of girls, which left me incredibly resentful. I was a listener and the guy opened up more and more to me, ironically, becoming less and less willing to hear what I said.
I am a masculine girl. Repressing one half of my existence- the masculine side- is like killing a huge part of myself. That said, I appreciate feminine traits in men- in fact I prefer to be with someone who has an androgynous psyche like I do and never lose respect for a man because he isn't brave and manly in the traditional sense of the word, but the opposite: I don't wanna macho, overly confident guys.
The gestures of affection wouldn't mean much for me if I feel a basic lack of understanding- as I did. I am somehow confused about my situation- which is the reason I made such a thread, however my main issue is being unsatisfied in my relationships, and my experience shows that if I try to act like girls should things get much worse. Later I started to express myself in relationships as I am. These weren't happy relationships, either, but at least I felt like a person who conflicts the other because of differences, not an actress who is expected to play a role without being allowed to show her real self.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. Build on pretense...
 

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http://personalitycafe.com/members/eryngo.html@Eryngo one main issue in my oldest relationships was that I didn't feel heard, because I tried to do what is expected of girls, which left me incredibly resentful. I was a listener and the guy opened up more and more to me, ironically, becoming less and less willing to hear what I said.
I am a masculine girl. Repressing one half of my existence- the masculine side- is like killing a huge part of myself. That said, I appreciate feminine traits in men- in fact I prefer to be with someone who has an androgynous psyche like I do and never lose respect for a man because he isn't brave and manly in the traditional sense of the word, but the opposite: I don't wanna macho, overly confident guys.
The gestures of affection wouldn't mean much for me if I feel a basic lack of understanding- as I did. I am somehow confused about my situation- which is the reason I made such a thread, however my main issue is being unsatisfied in my relationships, and my experience shows that if I try to act like girls should things get much worse. Later I started to express myself in relationships as I am. These weren't happy relationships, either, but at least I felt like a person who conflicts the other because of differences, not an actress who is expected to play a role without being allowed to show her real self.
I think macho/not macho is a false dichotomy. This isn't about lipstick and trucks. It's more about who's going to blink first, who's going to start the generosity train. Not feminine performance, feminine virtues. It will either be you, or you'll be lucky enough to find someone brave and evolved enough to make it them. If you want to increase your odds, you make it you.

And that's when you listen to the fox:

 

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Dear @marybluesky.
From my own experience good relationships are hard to come by and even then good sex is harder to come by even within a great relationship. I'm not trying to say that my girlfriends have been terrible, quite the opposite I've been with great women and had fantastic relationships. I've also been with people I didn't like being with, just like you.
In a shit relationships, sex will usually be shit. Unless your entire relationship is build on the sex, than it might be good...
In good relationships sex will usually be... actual sex, which is something like 99% laying around talking and cuddling and 1% ding inside a dong. Sex is never like in the movies, it's much more fun and much more comfortable(at least it's supposed to be)

But! life is never a wonderland, it's much more.
Though you have to find someone who you find worthy of being with and sex is the same. You have to find someone who is worthy of your sex. Sex is different to everyone, some want sex to take time, some want sex to be fast, some want sex to be rough, some wants sex to be kinky and weird(not trying to offend).

Now I'm sorry if all of this turned out to be "sex... sex... sex", but what I'm trying to arrive at is that sex actually doesn't matter all to much in a relationship, sure, when you're young you're scared you'll be that 55 year old virgin. But once you've moved beyond that you're more into whether your partner is an asshole or an angel.
 
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Haha I'm not interested in marriage, equal or not.
For me it's good news to have less sex. I want it, sure, but not 5 hours every night. Once a week is OK I guess if that's enjoyable. And if not why bother at all?
PS: The sex is an act of love and degradation according to this article- so you should let your man degrade you to have more sex. Sorry, but disgusting.
 

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I have no idea of what an “enjoyable” relationship can be. But I know that mine weren’t. I have to deal with my inferior Fe all the time while I am dating someone; going through mood swings, emotion rushes, unusual stress (I hardly ever am anxious otherwise) and losing my energy without a desirable result.
Does it have anything to do with my Myers Briggs/Enneagram type?
Let me guess. It's the implied expectation of the dating itself, that makes it especially exhausting for Fe. To much thinking and focus on outcome -> Ti-Si -> depressive emotions.

It seems to me that it's better to start as warm friendly people just curious about exploring about each other, than two 'neurotic' would be lovers thinking about outcomes.

Meeting a friend form here, showing her piece of the country I live in, talking about stuff, doing pick-nick if I look in hindsight was the closest to a perfect date I have experienced without it actually being a date.
 

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PS: The sex is an act of love and degradation according to this article- so you should let your man degrade you to have more sex. Sorry, but disgusting.
wuptiduh... I hope not... I know the common picture of a masculine man goes something in the near of this.

A bunch of guys thinking too highly of themselves, filled with testosterone, nice and fit along the way.
But these guys are nowhere near masculine, quite the opposite they're the stereotypical version of a masculine man.
But being masculine doesn't necessarily equal lack of intelligence and empathy for your woman. It simply means being in line with your male instincts.
Being in line with your male instincts doesn't necessarily mean degrading women or force her into subordination. Men can also have a good moral and be masculine :laughing:, though I do agree that it is rare
 
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PS: The sex is an act of love and degradation according to this article- so you should let your man degrade you to have more sex. Sorry, but disgusting.
I think the point was more that the resulting equality reduces the number of actions and channels of communication that highlight the sexual differences between both parties. These differences often being those demonstrated by, and intrenched in, society, media and culture.
It doesn't have to be about degradation, so long as you're doing something that demonstrates qualities belonging to a sexual profile that your partner subscribes to.
 
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