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I'd like to take a moment to ask everyone about their view on religion. Let no one be offended, and to start off, I'd like to say that I dislike religion. Though people gain hope through religion, I don't feel like one of those people, and sometimes I think that people are a little crazy with it...
 

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It interests me to learn some of the motivations for why people are religious. Some like the community and in-group identification. Others follow religions for that sense of certainty, for fear of punishment, for laziness over not examining their beliefs, for comfort in prepackaged ideas, or even for a love of what they are learning, and a genuine desire to feel at one with their existence. I'm not a religious person, but I do like to study the psychological-philosophical ways that people believe and how their beliefs impact the societies that they live in. It's very interesting to learn about the primitive peoples looking to the sky to guide their harvests, the symbolism of ancient dead cultures, the principles that seem to guide the lives of fallen civilizations, and the reemergence of old wisdom into new culture. I find the Greek gods to be far more fascinating than the Christian god, the eastern religions far more psychologically "useful" than the laws of Judaism. If I had to choose a favorite religion, it would probably be zen Buddhism, which I don't worship or adhere to, but still has helped me to form my own philosophical ideas on morality and self-development. I am an ignostic, but more specifically, an agnostic atheist, who tends to lean more to humanistic/absurdist views. Damn. That last sentence was a mouth full.
 

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I know a couple of INTPs and INTJs, actually, who are all Christians. Not to mention some xSTPs. I did find that some of my atheist and agnostic friends, if they greatly valued a specific sort of rationality and were fairly intellectual, would get xNTx on MBTI tests. They would also find themselves relating well to the xNTx descriptions. I find this to be an interesting.

Of course, here on PerC most of the NTs you find won't think too kindly towards religion.
 

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I was born into a Catholic family, went to Sunday School, Church, etc.

I would be told about how good and kind, wonderful and forgiving god is. About how omnipotent god is. So why did he let people die? Why does he allow them to suffer? Starve? Be tortured, murdered, brutalized? What god can call themselves kind and still punish people by damning them to a terrible fate for eternity? How weak is this god if one of his own former followers can beat him to the hearts of his own supposed creations? How can any being call themselves good and kind, and still create a race of slaves whose sole purpose is to worship them? How full of themselves must this god be to do something that pathetic? How horrible must this being be to curse these creations for wanting their freedom?

I didn't want to believe in such a god. Such a weak, pathetic, horrid monster.
"I would rather burn in the fires of hell than prostrate before the god that created them."




Religions ask you to blindly follow them, and tell you they have answers to the questions you have. Religion doesn't have answers, it's just a drug to keep people sedated and stupid.
 

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As a kid I believed.

I distinctly remember one night praying for world hunger to be solved. Upon no solution being presented, I suppose thats when I lost my faith because afterall, why would god let people suffer?
 

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Religion, in the accepted sense of that word, has now become a matter of propaganda, of vested interest, with much property, with a great hierarchical, bureaucratic system of spirituality. Religion has become a matter of dogma, belief and ritual, something which is totally divorced from daily living. You may, or you may not, believe in God, but that belief has very little meaning in daily life, where you cheat, where you destroy, are ambitious, greedy, jealous, violent. You believe in God or in a savior, or in some guru, yet keep that far away so that it does not actually touch your daily life.

Religion, as it is now, has become an extraordinary phenomenon which has no validity at all. The Christian, for the last two thousand years, has been conditioned to believe. Please observe in yourself, not criticizing, not condemning, just observing. One may not like it, but one must face the fact that one is, if one is a Christian, as conditioned as the Communist or the atheist. The believer and the non-believer are both conditioned by the culture of their time, by society, by the extraordinary process of propaganda.

Now, I am not opposed to organizations, but I hold that no organization can lead man to truth. Yet all religious societies, sects, and groups are based on the idea that man can be guided to truth. Organizations should exist for the welfare of man, organizations not divided by nationalities, by class distinctions.

There is nothing sacred in the temple, in the mosque, in the churches. They are all the inventions of thought. We are limited by our thoughts. The gods that were created by these thoughts are therefore limited as well.
So love can not exist where there is attachment. If you are attached to your Priest, there is no love in your heart.
 

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I used to be VERY anti-religion, and constantly bashed and attacked religious people... I am now a christian. :)
 

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Religion has become a matter of dogma, belief and ritual, something which is totally divorced from daily living. You may, or you may not, believe in God, but that belief has very little meaning in daily life, where you cheat, where you destroy, are ambitious, greedy, jealous, violent. You believe in God or in a savior, or in some guru, yet keep that far away so that it does not actually touch your daily life.
Logistics would correlate quite well with dogma and ritual. Occupational ritual could in theory bring about feelings of hope if tied to what they experience at church. It's demonstrably possible to tie the two rituals together in an attempt to make occupational work enjoyable. I have not attempted to do as such because I lack the required occupation and faith. I have however observed such behavior in those with said variables met. Someone has to do their job. My occupation is making it so that these occupational rituals will be automated. In essence creating the conditions for such occupations to be quickly reduced and slowly eliminated.

I do wonder at times if religion could have been elementally different. Without the "vested interest, property, hierarchical, and bureaucratic system of spirituality" (Twilight). Could it at one time have been geared solely towards works of charity and enlightenment? Apologies, getting off topic.

One may not like it, but one must face the fact that one is, if one is a Christian, as conditioned as the Communist or the atheist.
Cutting across all ideologies like a scythe to an immature harvest. I'm smiles that you mentioned communism and atheism together, their scars evidence of the falsified union. Reminds me of the current conundrum regarding religion and terrorism. Though terrorism perhaps doesn't mind the scars. I haven't bothered to ask.

Now, I am not opposed to organizations, but I hold that no organization can lead man to truth. Yet all religious societies, sects, and groups are based on the idea that man can be guided to truth. Organizations should exist for the welfare of man, organizations not divided by nationalities, by class distinctions.
I also came to this conclusion some time ago and thought others would be interested in discussing what our ancestors had discovered. I was wrong, many are not interested. In fact, many were threatened by such ideas. I've slowly learned to share these ideas in a manner that doesn't induce a flight or fight response. However, I refuse to adopt hierarchical methods of persuasion and in turn fail to reach some individuals. Sensually stimulating as it may be to see such reactions.

So love can not exist where there is attachment. If you are attached to your Priest, there is no love in your heart.
You lost me there. Perhaps we can exchange ideas and I can understand.
 

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Am I a Christian? Yes. Religious? Hell no.
 

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Theism I have no qualms with. Theistic regions (Christianity, Islam,etc) however is a different matter. I am indifferent to religions that believe they have a monopoly on "God" and have "the answers" yet provide very little objectivity in their own reasoning, often resorting to conjecture.

There is far too much contradiction and subjectivity in theistic religion for me to ever align myself with one.

I am Agnostic, but I do believe that if there is a God then there is no religion on this planet that actually has the right idea on who he/she/it maybe may be let alone his/her/its "Will".

So I guess you could say the only religions I have problems with are the ones that are dogmatic. Religions like Buddhism which have no real dogma and are often seen as a way of life I don't have any problem aligning myself with, though I've yet to find one that I have any real attachment to.
 

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Please select from one of these threads we carefully prepared earlier.

At least one of these threads has 55+ pages in.





I'd add more, but my computer was complaining about the religious overload.

Side note: "the joe" :unsure: *sips cup of coffee*
 

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