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Discussion Starter #1
I keep testing as either an ENTP or ENTJ. I know, the functions are totally different so in theory I should know very clearly which one is me.

I think my function order is Ni Te Ne Ti Fi Se Fe Si. That would make me closest to an... INTJ? Huh? I have never considered myself an introvert at all.

I have ENTP and ENTJ -ish qualities. What I get more hung up on are my traits that are inconsistent with the standard description for each type.

I'm Unlike an ENTP because:
- I'm not a prankster or silly. I'm pretty serious usually.
- I prefer to plan things.
- I worry a lot. I feel like "carefree" and similar words don't apply, exactly.
- I don't love to argue.
- I don't like science/gadgets/etc.

I'm Unlike an ENTJ because:
- I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.)
- I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me.
- I like to start things more than I like to finish them.
- While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect.

(Of course, being unsure of your type is apparently very ENTP-ish.)

I made a thread about my type before and got mixed assessments. (Click Here) Which seems most fitting?
 

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You cant be an ENTP but consider ENTJ and INTJ as an option.

Do you always feel the need to communicate? Even though I'm always at home, I'm quite bothered by it but I wont be if I have some form of communication everyday.

Either that or look up how ENTJs or INTJs react when they're stressed. One or the two should either help.
 

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I'm Unlike an ENTP because:
- I'm not a prankster or silly. I'm pretty serious usually.
- I prefer to plan things.
- I worry a lot. I feel like "carefree" and similar words don't apply, exactly.
- I don't love to argue.
- I don't like science/gadgets/etc.
For my ENTP ex who was an enneagram type 3 'workaholic'
"I'm not a prankster or silly. I'm pretty serious usually." - He only played pranks when he was in teens in school with his friends.
"I prefer to plan things." - He always had some kind of a grand scheme of things plan going. He just did not like to formalize it. So when I asked him if for example he would had Saturday free to go to the beach together his typical reply would be "I'll see" or "I'll think about it". He liked keeping things in the 'air' so to say and not pinned down.
"I worry a lot. I feel like "carefree" and similar words don't apply, exactly." - He was always worried that his boss hates him and that he is going to get kicked from his position or something like that.
"I don't love to argue." - He didn't like to argue also, he had decently developed Fe, but liked a good debate.
"I don't like science/gadgets/etc." - He loved gadgets but I don't think this is really a defining feature of ENTPs. I've met NTs who weren't all that much into all things electronic.

I'm Unlike an ENTJ because:
- I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.)
- I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me.
- I like to start things more than I like to finish them.
- While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect.
"I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.)" - The physical organization of things only applies to sensor Js. Intuitive judgers can be much more messy with their physical environment because objects don't really matter to them much. They may be applying their powers of organization to other areas of their life, for example an INTJ can have a messy desk and room while he is in charge of organizing a team at work or organizing a project. It is just that intuition says physical mess is not that relevant to spend your life on cleaning it (entropy always takes over).
"I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me." - This is usually sign of a Ti, introverted subjective logic that says "screw what is logical by outside standards, I will use my own logic to manipulate environment to my own benefit"
"I like to start things more than I like to finish them." - Even though I am an intuitive judger I will sometimes start things then drop them because they don't feel meaningful any more. I probably feel worse about dropping them, but well developed intuition can override the J part as I have already commented about mess/cleanliness in physical environment.
"While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect." - same comment as above, N can make the J more messy


I think it would help you determining whether you are an ENTJ or ENTP if you read in more detail about the dominant and auxiliary cognitive functions of the two types and how they manifest in life.
ENTJ - extraverted thinking dominant, introverted intuition auxiliary
ENTP - extraverted intuition dominant, introverted thinking auxiliary
Place to read about function in detail: Function Attitude
 

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Discussion Starter #4
For my ENTP ex who was an enneagram type 3 'workaholic'


"I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.)" - The physical organization of things only applies to sensor Js. Intuitive judgers can be much more messy with their physical environment because objects don't really matter to them much. They may be applying their powers of organization to other areas of their life, for example an INTJ can have a messy desk and room while he is in charge of organizing a team at work or organizing a project. It is just that intuition says physical mess is not that relevant to spend your life on cleaning it (entropy always takes over).
"I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me." - This is usually sign of a Ti, introverted subjective logic that says "screw what is logical by outside standards, I will use my own logic to manipulate environment to my own benefit"
"I like to start things more than I like to finish them." - Even though I am an intuitive judger I will sometimes start things then drop them because they don't feel meaningful any more. I probably feel worse about dropping them, but well developed intuition can override the J part as I have already commented about mess/cleanliness in physical environment.
"While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect." - same comment as above, N can make the J more messy


Place to read about function in detail: Function Attitude
Thanks, I didn't know that.
 

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I keep testing as either an ENTP or ENTJ. I know, the functions are totally different so in theory I should know very clearly which one is me.

I think my function order is Ni Te Ne Ti Fi Se Fe Si. That would make me closest to an... INTJ? Huh? I have never considered myself an introvert at all.

I have ENTP and ENTJ -ish qualities. What I get more hung up on are my traits that are inconsistent with the standard description for each type.

I'm Unlike an ENTP because:
- I'm not a prankster or silly. I'm pretty serious usually.
- I prefer to plan things.
- I worry a lot. I feel like "carefree" and similar words don't apply, exactly.
- I don't love to argue.
- I don't like science/gadgets/etc.

I'm Unlike an ENTJ because:
- I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.)
- I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me.
- I like to start things more than I like to finish them.
- While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect.

(Of course, being unsure of your type is apparently very ENTP-ish.)

I made a thread about my type before and got mixed assessments. (Click Here) Which seems most fitting?
ENTP to the core.
The beaten into submission, soulless non-smiling kind.

I envy you, and pity you at the same time.
:crazy:
 

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Both ENTJs I know are exact in their decisions and have no doubt that they are ENTJs and the three ENTPs I know (myself included) all tend to think they're something else at times. That could be the P kicking in.

I am 50/50 E/I and had trouble determining ENTP/INTP. For me it was much easier to read the various descriptions abound and determine from that where you fit as opposed to the evaluating through the cognitive functions.

Regarding your commentary:

- I'm not a prankster or silly. I'm pretty serious usually. Only with people I am comfortable with
- I prefer to plan things. Very much so; But my planning is different than an ENTJs planning in that I will always provide a mechanism to change the plans if need be.
- I worry a lot. I feel like "carefree" and similar words don't apply, exactly. I used to be carefree when I was younger. But now I worry to the extreme. Even to an unhealthy point at times. I can't read the news anymore outside of work related information.
"- I don't love to argue." Meh...I love to be intellectually challenged and I believe for some ENTPs that manifests itself in arguing. I've surrounded myself with rationals and have found a friendly, non-argumentative forum for that needed stimulation.
"- I don't like science/gadgets/etc." I do. Very fascinated with it. Though as someone mentioned above I didn't realize that was an ENTP thing.

- I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.) I'm weird about organization. I was raised by a hypercritical ISTJ and so I have these intense desires to be punctual, organized, etc. But my organization is more of an outward show of organization that I believe was a result of the old man expectations.
- I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me. Ditto. I hate bureaucracy. Loathe it. I decided not to have a drivers license, register my vehicle, etc. Of course, the cost of doing those things has made me revisit and change my decisions in a lot of cases.
- I like to start things more than I like to finish them. Ditto. I've decided that the perfect job for me would be dreaming up business ideas and then selling the ideas. Unfortunately, I haven't found the marketplace for it yet.
- While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect. I'm neurotic about scheduling now but as I mentioned I like to keep the ability to change the schedule. Weird thing is I used to be anti-scheduling...with the same intensity that I now prefer to be scheduled. I think this goes to starting a company and that I know I have to be more organized to make it work. Though the urges to "do whatever" are a daily fight.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ENTP to the core.
The beaten into submission, soulless non-smiling kind.

I envy you, and pity you at the same time.
:crazy:
I laughed.

Both ENTJs I know are exact in their decisions and have no doubt that they are ENTJs and the three ENTPs I know (myself included) all tend to think they're something else at times. That could be the P kicking in.
Yeah, it feels like if you're an ENTJ you *know.* It's just my Te/Ti and Ne/Ni are all strong and I have a hard time ordering them. :p I feel like intuition is first but I'm not sure if its Ni or Ne. Now I'm thinking it's Ne. Blah.
 

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I think my function order is Ni Te Ne Ti Fi Se Fe Si. That would make me closest to an... INTJ? Huh? I have never considered myself an introvert at all.
If you're going by the cognitive function tests, I find them really useless. Also, are you really sure you have a grasp on the differences between Ni and Ne? I thought I was an INTJ for a long time and Ni seemed to fit my intuition perfectly.

I'm Unlike an ENTP because:
- I'm not a prankster or silly. I'm pretty serious usually.
- I prefer to plan things.
- I worry a lot. I feel like "carefree" and similar words don't apply, exactly.
- I don't love to argue.
- I don't like science/gadgets/etc.
The "prankster" thing is a bit of a caricature. ENTP's are mostly not like that, we just tend to have a broad sense of humour. Also keep in mind potential gender differences.

As far as planning, no one doesn't plan. P/J is more about ... does the plan really matter to you, is it an important part of enjoying yourself, to have some things planned and set and organized? Or do you prefer to be flexible and deal with things as they come up? You'll probably be somewhere in the middle, but which scenario seems more instinctively comfortable?

The carefree attitude I think is more about optimism. Sometimes I worry a lot, it depends on the reality of my situation, but my ENTP-ism is that no matter how worried I get, I always feel fundamentally ok about it, that it will probably work out, or that if it doesn't it won't be that big a deal and I'll get through it just fine.

Hmm, I think almost all ENTP's enjoy argument. Debate is a better term. I don't think we like conflict, that's different. The thing is, when we debate people, they might feel like it's a fight but to us it's just an engaging conversation. Personally I actually do a lot of mediating in my own arguments, saying like "actually I don't disagree with you about that, but..."

A lot of NT's like science and gadgets but that's just symptomatic of functional order, right? So the important thing is do you use intuition supported by thinking? Then you're an ENTP (or INTJ).

I'm Unlike an ENTJ because:
- I'm not organized with physical objects and space. (ie My desk is a mess, etc.)
- I do not like rules. I like manipulating the system so that it works for me.
- I like to start things more than I like to finish them.
- While I like things to be scheduled, I wouldn't say I like routine. I like to do different things every day and have lots of new experiences; I just like to know what to expect.

(Of course, being unsure of your type is apparently very ENTP-ish.)
Being unsure of your type is definitely ENTP-ish. ENTJ's actually probably don't care as much to begin with (it's Te vs. Ti).

If your space is messy, I think the important thing if you're an ENTJ would be is it still highly efficient and functional, and aesthetically acceptable and conducive to being productive? An ENTJ will really value those things. I haven't known of an ENTJ who isn't extremely orderly.

I don't think ENTJ's like rules really. They just think that if a rule helps people work better, or keeps the situation more in control, then it's a good idea. But they will definitely dislike rules that are in place for no good reason, or are only in place because of tradition. Whereas ENTP's tend to dislike the very concept of rules and don't really care if things are a bit more chaotic without them. Neither type likes adhering to other people's rules though, I don't think, but the ENTP will probably be more bothered by following a rule than the ENTJ.

ENTJ's do tend to get things done and complete projects. But that's because they see the project's completion as worthwhile, getting it done will be a good step, goals are important. If it isn't an important project, ENTJ's won't want to waste effort on it. If they've lost interest for whatever reason, I'm sure they have a good reason. ENTP's are much more fleeting and usually abandon tasks because their interest has shifted to something new, and work is a spontaneous thing, work has to seem exciting in the moment.

ENTJ's do like new experiences and change, and they'll get frustrated with a routine if it isn't worthwhile and productivity-oriented. Don't confuse ENTJ's sense of organization with SJ's sense of routine.
 
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