[The Ultimate Square Peg]

^^^ Yep. That was a Star Wars reference.
​

I have this history with revenge. It doesn't happen often that I go into full-on "destroy" mode, but when it does...eh. I think you know where that goes.

It's not so much revenge for those who have hurt me- there have been plenty of those who have hurt me and walked away unscathed due to my long, long process of repeated forgiveness and "second" chances...

It's those who have severely crossed my inner moral boundaries that I seek revenge upon. It's the ones who treat others unjustly and get away with it. Those who bully others and are never stood up to. Those who cheat, lie, or steal and aren't brought to justice. Those who hurt the weak and innocent and aren't held accountable.

It's then that I snap. I can't let it go. I must seek justice. I can't focus on anything other than bringing them out of power, or bringing their misdeeds to light. I've gotten people fired. I'll call the police. I'll petition to ban them from whatever arena they act unjustly in. And I don't rest until I know that justice has been served.

I'm under the impression that this is actually typical for most INFJs. I've read about situations like these in many, many different dialogues, threads and articles.

But I've yet to answer this question: Why??
What is it, functionally, that causes INFJs to act in this way?
What causes the intense moral compass?
And what causes the intense objection to injustice?

Additionally, I'd love to hear personal examples of cases in which you've taken "revenge."
How do you do it?
Why do you do it?
What makes you snap?
What happens when you do snap?







Never underestimate the power of the INFJ.
​

 

[Feelings]

Usually it's when u hurt people the INFJ cares deeply about that really sets them off. It's not so much a "principle" that the INFJ stands for. Sometimes it looks like an INFJ is rallying for some sort of cause, but that's because they feel a sense of belonging with a group and feel the need to protect that group.

Of course, it's a big step to go from getting pissed off to taking a fair bit of time and energy to extract vengeance. When you get revenge on someone, that's something you're doing FOR YOURSELF. It's for your own feelings to feel better. The objective of revenge is not to solve a problem, it's to hurt someone. Quite frankly, it is a vice.

 

[ohnoezitsjoez]

I have never been to this brink, but I have some concerns about it. If someone was pushing me and pushing me, I could give them plenty of fair warning to stop. I can tolerate a lot, and be the "bigger man" and walk away. Let them talk and act out, that doesnt bother me. I would never enrage over something petty. It would have to be very personal or very very persistent.

But if they keep on and keep on, and I reach my limit, I wont be concerned with fighting fair. I will only be concerned with vengeance, a well deserved one. It would be glorious poetry. I would have one goal, to punish them. The retaliation would be a surgical strike, and I would have no problems taking a lot of time to prepare. One has to learn his opponent in order to strike where it is most effective.

It is a heavy concept, and not a light thing. It often is a "point of no return" in the sense that once the plan is in motion, it is all in. The only thing greater than my patience would be my judgement once that patience has been worn out.

 

[The Ultimate Square Peg]

Usually it's when u hurt people the INFJ cares deeply about that really sets them off. It's not so much a "principle" that the INFJ stands for. Sometimes it looks like an INFJ is rallying for some sort of cause, but that's because they feel a sense of belonging with a group and feel the need to protect that group..

I have to disagree with you here; while this is sometimes the case, it is not always so. I can't speak for all INFJs here, but as for myself, I will avidly fight for a cause I believe in, for people I have never known and will never know. I'll do it for the general public, if it comes to that. I'll do it for a complete and utter stranger that I have no obligation to and no emotional history with. And it's a fight over the principle in those instances.
Although, I'll give you that hurting someone I deeply care about will set me off much faster and much more intensely. But that is certainly not the only thing I will fight for in such a way.

 

[ibage]

This sounds like a fun thread!

I honestly can't answer the first set of questions. I don't completely understand my own though process yet and I suspect I never will despite the time I spend with myself. I know I've always had great disdain for those who cause suffering for their own gain. I've always hated "the man" for not only that, but the ability to manipulate the law. It's not a matter of subjectivity, it's a fact. It's just plain wrong. I could go on and on about my opinion here but it wouldn't serve a purpose. Simply put, I have no idea what causes those gears to spin.

The second set of questions I can gladly answer!


How do you do it?
I'm very systematic. I start with a passive-aggressive pace. At home, when my brother irritates my parents (which he;s prone to doing), I start messing with his head. He's slightly OCD so I tend to move his things around discretely. Don't get me wrong, he and I get along very well. He's just kinda a jerk at times.

If it something more severe outside of my family, it's usually bigger. My last spurt got someone fired for trying to pin blame on another person in the kitchen where I work.

If it's something on me, I'll shamelessly ignore who wronged me. Nothing more.

Why do you do it?

Why not? If someone is wronged, there's no reason there shouldn't be a confrontation. It's wrong that people suffer so other's might prosper.

What makes you snap?
Injustice. People being wronged for no good reason. My friends, family and "comrades" at work give my life and work meaning. If any of them get the short end, I will be sure to right that wrong.

Also, politics. They always get under my skin. Not sure if that counts though.

What happens when you do snap?
After the initial rage settles and I'm done brooding, I calm down. My internal clocks speeds up and my mind sharpens. I'll devote time and energy to devising a plan of attack. In this state of mind, thoughts fly through my head and process much quicker. After I'm done, if I chose to act on it (which doesn't happen often at all), I'm utterly exhausted beyond words.

Edit: I feel it worth noting, I do take to trolling online if need be. Normally it's only other trolls or people who are simply jerks.

 

[Feelings]

I have to disagree with you here; while this is sometimes the case, it is not always so. I can't speak for all INFJs here, but as for myself, I will avidly fight for a cause I believe in, for people I have never known and will never know. I'll do it for the general public, if it comes to that. I'll do it for a complete and utter stranger that I have no obligation to and no emotional history with. And it's a fight over the principle in those instances.
Although, I'll give you that hurting someone I deeply care about will set me off much faster and much more intensely. But that is certainly not the only thing I will fight for in such a way.

Obvi I don't know YOOOOUUUUU, but I'm pretty sure the typical INFJ is not Fi driven.

 

[The Ultimate Square Peg]

Obvi I don't know YOOOOUUUUU, but I'm pretty sure the typical INFJ is not Fi driven.

Definitely not. I'm not sure if that is something that is only applicable to me or not- it may be. I'm also a 6, and I think a lot of my "defender" roles are driven out of that, rather than my INFJ...ness.

 

[emerald sea]

@Feelings - it looks like Fi, but it isn't... Fe's values are just as powerful in driving our decisions, as Fi's values are in motivating an Fi user. both Fe and Fi are defined as decision-making based on values/principles. Fe has a strong commitment to what it considers social justice/protection of others...we value the emotional and physical safety of others. add to that the fact that whatever we INFJs feel, we feel deeply. there may be *fireworks* when an Fi user's most profoundly-held values are violated; the display can be just as impressive when an Fe user's deepest values are overrun.

if you think of a mother or father who deeply loves their child seeing that child seriously endangered or attacked by someone, the power of their feelings in that moment, and their willingness to do drastic things to protect their precious child and fight off the attacker...you have got some concept of the intensity of the protectiveness of an INFJ...

the deeper the love, and the worse the affront, the more intense the reaction. you don't mess with the people we love.

EDIT: meant to mention - i think of "revenge" as something different from the ideas addressed in this thread. revenge is getting back at someone for what they do to you...this thread seems to be more about being protective when others are mistreated. we INFJs typically feel passionately indignant when helpless people, or those we love/care about, are mistreated, so that we feel driven to take action to make sure the mistreatment comes to an end or the person feels better. it's an intense empathy mixed with sorrow that quickly develops into a fiery inward "STOP TREATING HIM/HER/THEM THAT WAY...NOW...or i'm going to get involved!!" impulse. exactly how we act on this impulse depends on the circumstance...

 

[LiteratureNerd]

I can't say I've ever felt much drive for revenge. That's not to say that I've never been deeply hurt or offended by people before - I have - but I'm also not very confrontational, and prefer to show my "vengeance" by making it clear that whatever some person has done hasn't destroyed me. How do I do that? By moving on with my life and being happy without them in it.

When someone intentionally hurts you, they take power over you. If you continue to remain hurt, angry, and vengeful, they merely keep that power. I'm not too keen on letting that happen.

 

[HorribleAesthete]

I am not particularly vengeful. This is not say that I do not feel outraged at those who prey upon the weak or take advantage of those less fortunate, only that it does not generally motivate me to seek revenge. I do have a few such causes that really get me worked up when I consider them, almost enough to entertain notion of revenge, but I am more apt to take the "stop now, and you can still walk away unharmed" approach.

For me to become vengeful would require a violent attack, or attempted attack, on a loved one, something that left or would have potentially left that person dead, crippled, or something similar. Otherwise, the behavior you mention merely makes me want to stop the offender, and more importantly the behavior. I suppose, in extreme cases this might lead to violence, but it would not be motivated out of a need for revenge. I do not want to take it further and make them suffer as they have made others suffer. I just want it to end.

Likewise, I did occasionally engage in passive-aggressive behavior while deployed in the military, but not out a desire for revenge, merely to stop unwarranted attempts by a few young punks (all my same rank) at controlling me and those under my supervision. It is an effective method of dealing with such behavior, after calm rational discussion has failed (and force isn't an option) and all that is left is to cave in, continue to put up with the behavior, or to help the offending party draw a direct parallel between their juvenile attempts at control and the amount of glitches that occur in a given day. But once the behavior has ceased, I do not want to continue with the game, nor do I maintain a need for revenge.

 

[abysmalbeauty]

I have never actually purposely sought revenge on another person.... that makes very little sense to me. I know that I have hurt others in the heat of the moment but plotting revenge just seems a little more devious than me.

 

[Noelle]

Normally I don't seek revenge on people. Revenge isn't going to help what happened, there is no point to it. If someone has wronged me that badly, I just want them gone from my life, period. I don't want to see them or hear from them ever again. (Unless you count the doorslam as revenge, but personally I feel its more self-preservation than revenge.)


Now if that person won't go away, or is actively hurting a family member in some way, that's when I go into planning mode, but it's always just using tools to get them to stop doing whatever they are doing. But it's always important to stay within the realm of the law, at least for me. Once you step outside the safety net of the law, that's when things start backfiring.

 

[The Ultimate Square Peg]

Now if that person won't go away, or is actively hurting a family member in some way, that's when I go into planning mode, but it's always just using tools to get them to stop doing whatever they are doing. But it's always important to stay within the realm of the law, at least for me. Once you step outside the safety net of the law, that's when things start backfiring.

This part really stuck out to me- I definitely agree with all of it.
I should probably clarify that this is the type of "revenge" or justification that I'm talking about. Like, say a teacher is bullying children- I do everything in my power to get that teacher fired, immediately. Or I see someone shoplifting in a store- I take immediate action to make sure they are caught by the security guards.
You're right- lawfulness has no place. Wrong for wrong won't solve a thing.
It's the injustice that makes me so angry- I would never be able to defend acting unjustly in response.

 

[Pjb]

For me, vengence is oh so much sweeter and exacting when I have the patience to wait for things to take their own course. The result is often beyond anything I might have devised or constructed.
I always seek the path of kindness even to those who have crossed or hurt me, for I refuse to give power to anyone to antagonize me outside of my personal vision of proper behavior.
My only active act of revenge is to blot the individual from my memory thereby totally eliminating their existence rather than a conceived act against them.

 

[emerald sea]

You're right- lawfulness has no place. Wrong for wrong won't solve a thing.
It's the injustice that makes me so angry- I would never be able to defend acting unjustly in response.

exactly...
we're not talking about taking the law into our own hands. when situations require intervention, we can do whatever is within the law, to put a stop to the mistreatment when it occurs. but if anything further is required, that is the responsibility of the authorities.

 

[The Ultimate Square Peg]

[/I]EDIT: meant to mention - i think of "revenge" as something different from the ideas addressed in this thread. revenge is getting back at someone for what they do to you...this thread seems to be more about being protective when others are mistreated. we INFJs typically feel passionately indignant when helpless people, or those we love/care about, are mistreated, so that we feel driven to take action to make sure the mistreatment comes to an end or the person feels better. it's an intense empathy mixed with sorrow that quickly develops into a fiery inward "STOP TREATING HIM/HER/THEM THAT WAY...NOW...or i'm going to get involved!!" impulse. exactly how we act on this impulse depends on the circumstance...

Thanks for this edit! This is exactly what I meant in my OP.
The title doesn't exactly convey that. What can I say...I liked the "Revenge of the Sith" reference...
But yes, that's precisely the message and the type of "justice" and "justification" I'm talking about. Like I said in my OP (which I feel like may not have been read completely by some people?), "It's not so much revenge for those who have hurt me- there have been plenty of those who have hurt me and walked away unscathed due to my long, long process of repeated forgiveness and "second" chances...It's those who have severely crossed my inner moral boundaries that I seek revenge upon. It's the ones who treat others unjustly and get away with it. Those who bully others and are never stood up to. Those who cheat, lie, or steal and aren't brought to justice. Those who hurt the weak and innocent and aren't held accountable."
Thanks for your addition.

 

[GoodOldDreamer]

I'm a 9w1, so... nope. Never sought revenge. ) An eye for an eye only results in two blind people, ya know.

 

[Feelings]

exactly...
we're not talking about taking the law into our own hands. when situations require intervention, we can do whatever is within the law, to put a stop to the mistreatment when it occurs. but if anything further is required, that is the responsibility of the authorities.

Until u feel deeply dissatisfied with how the authorities handle something, or if you don't have the power to personally stop someone who's doing something that you feel is wrong but legal. Then breaking the law becomes an option if you're really looking to fight for a cause.

 

[Feelings]

@Feelings - it looks like Fi, but it isn't... Fe's values are just as powerful in driving our decisions, as Fi's values are in motivating an Fi user. both Fe and Fi are defined as decision-making based on values/principles. Fe has a strong commitment to what it considers social justice/protection of others...we value the emotional and physical safety of others. add to that the fact that whatever we INFJs feel, we feel deeply. there may be *fireworks* when an Fi user's most profoundly-held values are violated; the display can be just as impressive when an Fe user's deepest values are overrun.

if you think of a mother or father who deeply loves their child seeing that child seriously endangered or attacked by someone, the power of their feelings in that moment, and their willingness to do drastic things to protect their precious child and fight off the attacker...you have got some concept of the intensity of the protectiveness of an INFJ...

the deeper the love, and the worse the affront, the more intense the reaction. you don't mess with the people we love.

EDIT: meant to mention - i think of "revenge" as something different from the ideas addressed in this thread. revenge is getting back at someone for what they do to you...this thread seems to be more about being protective when others are mistreated. we INFJs typically feel passionately indignant when helpless people, or those we love/care about, are mistreated, so that we feel driven to take action to make sure the mistreatment comes to an end or the person feels better. it's an intense empathy mixed with sorrow that quickly develops into a fiery inward "STOP TREATING HIM/HER/THEM THAT WAY...NOW...or i'm going to get involved!!" impulse. exactly how we act on this impulse depends on the circumstance...

Seems like the Fe user's morality is more 'effects on people' focused, and Fi user's morality is more intellectual principle focused.

So a Fe user may be like "I don't like this because my best buddy Biddy is feeling hurt", whereas a Fi user may be like "Biddy's just going to have to suck it up, because the other party is completely within their rights" or "I don't think any boss should treat any employee like such".

 

[emerald sea]

Seems like the Fe user's morality is more 'effects on people' focused, and Fi user's morality is more intellectual principle focused.

So a Fe user may be like "I don't like this because my best buddy Biddy is feeling hurt", whereas a Fi user may be like "Biddy's just going to have to suck it up, because the other party is completely within their rights" or "I don't think any boss should treat any employee like such".

yes, exactly!!!