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Discussion Starter #1
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Reversible Figures.

You naturally see them one way, but if you focus enough you can realize the other way of viewing it -- the way that others see it naturally -- and can begin to see it that way yourself.

Similarly, I've noticed, if I'm sitting somewhere peacefully, let's say in nature, I naturally see things via my Ni. I'll be looking at the view but not really seeing it -- instead seeing metaphors, symbols, deeper life lessons or realizations. But if I focus intently enough (yeah, you know where this is going you Ni ;p) I can realize how to view the scene via my Se: completely bereft of thought, in the moment -- noticing everything, every detail, every color -- feeling every sensation in my body, the wind blowing, the sounds, etc.

We all know this is possible.


My question is, (and this goes against the grain), if we learn how to realize or see through the eyes of another function (via our Ni), isn't it possible to learn to use even our shadow functions on demand? Our core conscious functions will always be home base, but I think the ability to use others is very possible.

For example, I think I realize, understand, know how, and actually have used Te upon demand many times in my life. Naturally I analyze and break things down via my Ti but with enough focus I've realized I'm able to set aside the details and the curiosity -- and learn to see the world as a series of objective facts which can be rearranged and synthesized to achieve measurable results. Upon solving math problems -- I've practiced using Te instead of Ti in the way that I approach the problems; instead of understanding math vaguely and running with the torch -- skipping steps yet somehow finding my way to the answer (via subconscious images -- Ti), I've learned to learn all the rules for nothing more than what they are, think in a step by step prioritized manner, and dish out answers via good well-practiced form, compromising a deeper level of understanding and curiosity.

Similarly, I've noticed I can view the world with Ne and Si with enough focus.

Do you think it's possible to realize and use other functions via Ni?
 

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My hypothesis on this is that the brain is adaptable, especially with more intelligent people. I think people who would be considered "gifted" may very well have that cognitive adaptability to use whatever function is needed to fulfill whatever task is needed. I really don't believe that anyone is their mbti 100% of the time; I always say that, and not only do people need to tap into their opposite functions, but occasionally, under extreme circumstances they might use shadow functions. It's just that doing so feels less natural, and you end up saying things like, "I haven't been myself lately" because you recognize that that's not you in your default state.

I do find often my brain switches from Ni to Ne whenever needed, that's why I also often say on this forum that I have kinda an ENTP split personality. It's what comes out when that happens. But I also have a bunch of "shadow types" too, which, I guess I my shadow functions coming out against my will when I'm under a lot of pressure, but often manifesting themselves in negative ways.

btw: just a random not, but I like reversible figures I think they're fun....I guess that's why my avatar...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Of course it's possible. From my understanding, we all see with every cognitive function but Ni, Fe, Ti, Se are the ones we are most comfortable seeing with which is what makes us INFJ.
Comfort, excellent!

<3 Epiphanies
 

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INFJ Archetypes

The above page is a very interesting read. Dr. John Beebe talks about INFJ and thier archetype.
 
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I'd like to think we can all tap into already present/subconscious functions without needing Ni.
I mean if they're already there then we could just learn to recognize or just go with them when we see it happening, right?
Whatchu think?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'd like to think we can all tap into already present/subconscious functions without needing Ni.
I mean if they're already there then we could just learn to recognize or just go with them when we see it happening, right?
Whatchu think?
Yes and no (my opinion).

I think realizing functions for what they are -- understanding them at a deeper level -- is always one's Ni function at play. Because that's what Ni does, it senses subtext and then takes a bird's eye point of view at assessing the situation -- realizing the bigger picture of what's going on.

I think other functions are perfectly capable of learning to use their other functions but perhaps without as deep an understanding as Ni brings.

For example an ESTP may learn to use their Fi or Te function by poking and prodding until they get it right -- kind of a guess and check touch and test type approach via their Se and Ti. Though if consciously asked to use those functions on demand they might not really know how to go about doing that.

I hope this all doesn't come off as elitism, because it's not.
 

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I think realizing functions for what they are -- understanding them at a deeper level -- is always one's Ni function at play. Because that's what Ni does, it senses subtext and then takes a bird's eye point of view at assessing the situation -- realizing the bigger picture of what's going on.
The thing is is that that's how you can understand it deeply, as a Ni dominant. I understand it through a different means.

I think that this thread gives some good examples though of Ni.

OP: Your Se one also demonstrates how drastically different Se is from your own Ni point of view. You are able to see the scene differently, but if you tried to go through a day like that- you would feel like there was something missing (a Se dominant trying to go through the day with Ni would probably feel like it was very ungrounded and based on conjuncture).

I've learned to learn all the rules for nothing more than what they are, think in a step by step prioritized manner, and dish out answers via good well-practiced form, compromising a deeper level of understanding and curiosity.
But is this really Te? Te would understand those rules as fact- and another function like Si or Ni would go in for further understanding. You don't seem to really accept it, you just learn how to work the system.

Similarly, I've noticed I can view the world with Ne and Si with enough focus.
What do you consider viewing the world with Si?
 

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I like your theory. And I've observed Ni transforming someone mid-conversation many times.
ENFJs who "turn into" other people, ENTJs who get in tune with someone's thoughts... Things like that, or so it appeared.

But I'm an xNTP and I don't have Ni as a preference. And I've definitely used other functions and have mimicked people. Sometimes quite actively and obviously (although I've always started doing this before I realized)... This would suggest that Ni is strong but not the only way to get in touch with non-preferred functions, no?

Also, I wouldn't think Ni brings more depth than any other way of this happening. Idk how it is for others, but from personal observation I've seen that Ni-shifts seem to be situational and happen more frequently the more time the user spends with someone. Ne/Si shift dont happen the same way but rather mimic surface behavior and reactions/responses, but Its similar in the way that it requires experience with the person/source of data. I would imagine each way has its pros and cons. What do you think?

EDIT: oh ya and I've noticed myself saying things just to get a funny reaction and asking piercing questions that reveal reactions when people are off-guard (Ne) like poking and prodding.... Although i do my best to keep this impulse within ethical confines because sometimes it gets too fun, lol. Do you think theres an Se/Ni similarity there? Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The thing is is that that's how you can understand it deeply, as a Ni dominant. I understand it through a different means.
Can you realize and use other functions upon enough introspection? I'm not saying I can, or you can't, I'm more interested in how it works for you.


OP: Your Se one also demonstrates how drastically different Se is from your own Ni point of view. You are able to see the scene differently, but if you tried to go through a day like that- you would feel like there was something missing (a Se dominant trying to go through the day with Ni would probably feel like it was very ungrounded and based on conjuncture).
Yes, my point was that it's possible to do this on command, very similar to seeing both perspectives of a reversible figure -- it takes some concentration to click in. I was also using this example to illustrate how it may be possible to realize other functions in a similar fashion.


But is this really Te? Te would understand those rules as fact- and another function like Si or Ni would go in for further understanding. You don't seem to really accept it, you just learn how to work the system.
From my understanding, it truly is Te. I begin seeing the world as a series of facts to be learned, synthesized, and utilized as tools to achieve various results. My mind begins counting and calculated moves, steps, situations. I don't make any decisions without realizing a purpose and setting a goal first. I need to have the peace of mind knowing that all ordeals I'm involved in are signed, sealed, and delivered as soon as possible -- I don't like leaving anything open-ended.

All these traits seem to me to be part of the Te system. And switching into this is almost like a transformation which I can start with enough focus, and once I'm in that frame of mind all these attributes become effortless and natural. Not really working the system, more so becoming the system.


What do you consider viewing the world with Si?
To me, viewing the world with Si is when I understand the world by connecting what I'm experiencing in the moment with a vivid snapshot of something I've experienced before, and then through contrast and comparison understanding what I'm experiencing in the moment.

It's also when I find myself wanting to preserve things the way they always have been, noticing any inconsistencies and finding myself compelled to fix those inconsistencies back to what they were before.

It's when I'm talking to a close friend and begin reminiscing over past memories for hours and getting energized by it.

It's when I find inconsistencies between current conditions and what they were before, often becoming frustrated when the system changes on me.
 

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@AbioticPrime

Ah, I see so you tap into other functions through introspection? That would make sense with Ni's introverted nature.
I do it through active mimicking. Although it just happens in real time before I notice I'm doing it. Hmmm i see a connection lol

EDIT: I pretty much just adjust to the situation with Ne... go with the flow.

Example: If my goal is to explain something to a Te-user, I'll probably end up explaining it in some type of sequence and probably even use things in my environment to depict/illustrate my point. During those moments I won't notice my way of doing things would be different. Most likely I'll notice it was sequential afterward, which is not how I usually explain things by default.

I tend to explain things differently from person to person, in addition to on-the-fly behavior alteration. This is something I've noticed since I was a kid... hope that provides insight.
 

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From my understanding, it truly is Te. I begin seeing the world as a series of facts to be learned, synthesized, and utilized as tools to achieve various results.
This does sound right.

To me, viewing the world with Si is when I understand the world by connecting what I'm experiencing in the moment with a vivid snapshot of something I've experienced before, and then through contrast and comparison understanding what I'm experiencing in the moment.
I think though that's actually Se, because you are connecting it with what actually happened. Si would compare it to some sort of internal archetype or ideal of whatever you are experiencing. When I think about, say, oak trees, I don't think of "that one by my house" like Se would but I picture just an oak tree, unconnected with any particular one in the real world.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This does sound right.



I think though that's actually Se, because you are connecting it with what actually happened. Si would compare it to some sort of internal archetype or ideal of whatever you are experiencing. When I think about, say, oak trees, I don't think of "that one by my house" like Se would but I picture just an oak tree, unconnected with any particular one in the real world.
The way Si works in my case is for example I'll have a profound moment where my brain registers a particular oak tree -- perhaps the first time I learn what an oak tree is, or perhaps my first kiss or something along those lines. Maybe my dad was reading me a picture book and showed me a picture of an oak tree for the first time. Then that particular oak tree becomes registered in my mind as the archetypal oak tree.

From then on every time the subject of oak tree comes to mind again that archetypal image of oak tree is recalled.
 
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