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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi type nines! I'm really fascinated by you. As the crown of the enneagram, you seem to be the least noticeable of all. And that reminds me the theme from hundreds of books who tells us the story of an invisible hero/heroine :laughing: (figuratively invisible, that is)

Now, after all of that praise, here comes the big guns.
Can you tell me any life stories about being a 9?
Can you develop a sense of decisiveness, a need for recognition and a personal agenda?
How?

My little sister is a 9 wing 1, and I really want her to improve her self. She often told me about her 'invisible' approach in a calm understated matter, and it irks me a lot. She is a very talented singer, she likes to draw, and she make dozens of wonderful poetry. We share a lot of common interest, but after a while I notice that she never offer her own opinions.

I know you guys always see the silver lining in things, and that's what make you guys so likable, but I wish my younger sister can be more open about what she's capable of doing as oppose to just sit there and be immovable. She is very resistant, she can do well in school but she just doesn't feel like it. She is happy of who she is right now.

And this is the same with my 9 wing 8 best friend, I love her company, she is very supportive and understanding about my reclusive and withdrawing nature. She is actually a great leader.
But still, she is plain, and I like her to strive for something.

Feel free to comment. Thanks in advance for any suggestions what so ever.
I think this is very important,
I cherish their company, they helped me when I was in a dark place. I want to do something in exchange of their understanding :kitteh:.
 

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Hmmm the only thing I can think of is give them the same support they give you... and encourage them towards doing something constructive. It's probably a bad idea to use words like "you must" or make them feel like you are expecting a lot from them though since type 9's tend to react to pressure by directly opposing it. I'd say gentle encouragement and constant support ... though of course ultimately the choice is theirs. "You can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink" as they say.
 

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I personally don't appreciate people trying to change me against my will. It as though I weren't good enough, that my opinion didn't matter, that I wasn't acceptable enough.
 

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The same story happened to me last year. I've always, always wanted to be an artist but I never had the confidence in my own ability to believe that I am good enough, right now, to go out and get paid jobs doing my art. It's always 'when I get better', without a specific date or definition of what 'better' means, and tbh if an ENTJ friend didn't come along and pushed me to do it I don't think I would ever have, but I'm glad because I'm now a freelancer and I get to stay at home to work :D (I don't like interacting with people).

The same might be happening here, but I don't know. If she's w1 she might have that perfectionist streak holding her back from doing what she really wanted to do (like what happened to me). Anyway, it might be a rather monumental task, because our stubbornness and inertia can be quite a thing to overcome indeed, but I'm sure the rewards are worth it.
 

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The kind of motivation you're talking about is something that needs to come from within. It's very nice of you to try and encourage your sister and friend, but it ultimately needs to be something they decide on.. or don't. As a 9w1, I'll admit that finding motivation to do things is often difficult and I'm usually content to be average (with the presumptuous notion that I probably could be great if I only gave a rats ass). Also, there's nothing wrong with quietly having a talent.. one does not need to excel or show off to be happy.

However, if you really want to help, gently showing that you believe both of them are great at what they do could help to motivate them more than you realize. Also, showing them the same support they show you is likely more than enough. On the flip side, the worst thing you could possibly do is try to force them into it; you don't want that 9 stubbornness coming out. :p



Now.. it's possible that the 9w1 is afraid to try in fear of failure; my perfectionistic streak definitely holds me back in this manner. However, I wouldn't assume this to be true. What @Kayness wrote is also possible.
 

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And this is the same with my 9 wing 8 best friend, I love her company, she is very supportive and understanding about my reclusive and withdrawing nature. She is actually a great leader.
But still, she is plain, and I like her to strive for something.
What does she want to strive for? Unless she has a dream she believes in strongly, you won't get anything other than apathy
 

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What does she want to strive for? Unless she has a dream she believes in strongly, you won't get anything other than apathy
Completely. If she's a nine, and a young nine, a lot of soul searching is probably in order before she can reach that point. She may not know who she is, or even understand herself as an individual entity with a will and wants and needs, etcetcetc. You may have to excersize some patience while she figures out what that goal is. The only thing you can really do is reassure her that she is important, I think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I assume she likes to be in an organization(my friend). She's now the head of publication in an upcoming event, she looks very excited about this. Yet she is still down to earth (i admire her for that!)
And yeah, if I look at it, my little sister is a perfectionist. Encouragement is the only thing I could give to them, and let them be with their own pace. Intruding does seems like a very rude approach.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
 

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I'm a 9w1 but I am a striver now.

A lot of this has been from being thrown outside my comfort zone.
And the great thing is - I always perservere and succeed (stubborness and determination with a huge fear of failure). So now I am much more confident with stress and challenge.
I became acutely conscious of the rewards that follow when this happens.
So now I consciously throw myself outside my comfort zone and take risks.
It was an epiphany to discover that I am an incredibly courageous individual.

But more often it feels like "life" just wants me to use my strengths and throws me to the wolves.
People see my competency and intelligence and often I get shoved into the role of "reluctant leader".

But I need a lot of downtime after these moments. And easily feel fatigued and anxious if overwhelmed.
Luckily my career gives me the opportunity for huge times of peace (after times of incredible stress).
"it too, will pass" - a common mantra

This acceptance actually brings me peace.
But it took until my late 20's to realize all this.
 

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9w8 here who is completely apathetic towards everything at this point in my life, well sort of because for the past few days I've been trying to get out of this feeling of indifference. So, I think you need to encourage her. Tell her she matters, but only she can figure out what she wants out life on her own through a journey to self-realization.
 
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But more often it feels like "life" just wants me to use my strengths and throws me to the wolves.
People see my competency and intelligence and often I get shoved into the role of "reluctant leader".

But I need a lot of downtime after these moments. And easily feel fatigued and anxious if overwhelmed.
Luckily my career gives me the opportunity for huge times of peace (after times of incredible stress).
"it too, will pass" - a common mantra
What is this mystical career where you get a lot of downtime after times of incredible stress? Typically every job I've worked at involves ever increasing amounts of stress with the possibility of only enough downtime to remind me what I'm missing out on
 

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What is this mystical career where you get a lot of downtime after times of incredible stress? Typically every job I've worked at involves ever increasing amounts of stress with the possibility of only enough downtime to remind me what I'm missing out on

I'm a geologist. So I work seasonally, mostly on contract. I make a lot of money daily so I take a lot of time off. Often the time off isn't a choice :p

But when I work, it is long and steady and hard.

A schedule of 2 weeks on (everyday 12 hours), 2 weeks off is pretty common. 4 weeks on 2 weeks off more common.
 
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At least for myself I find that I'm often ignorant of many of my talents. I also sort of considered myself average and have a hard time realizing what I can contribute or "show" to the world. Usually it takes A LOT of motivation to even accept that I have an undying passion for something and can do something with it (though let's not get carried away on how good I am at whatever it is).

Ultimately what it comes down to is offering support and maybe a little praise. Don't shower advice or try to push anything. If you want to see stubbornness just tell a 9 to do something that they don't necessarily wish to do. Might as well speak to a wall because the response might be about the same. However, if a 9 feels comfortable enough to do something, do the same thing. Unless they ask for advice (encouraging advice at that), don't sit there and try to teach or "tell" them what to do. It'll only revert back to the similar situation of a stubborn 9 being... well, stubborn :tongue:

A 9w8 might be a little less passive about things, but for myself being a 9w1 I'm VERY passive about pursuing things. I just sort of go with the flow and enjoy the ride, however complacent it makes me feel. Usually a stir of intense inspiration will not only get me off my ass but also achieve something AWESOME. That might be what your friend will likely come to at some point. Or not. Just wait and see the results :D
 

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Hi type nines! I'm really fascinated by you. As the crown of the enneagram, you seem to be the least noticeable of all. And that reminds me the theme from hundreds of books who tells us the story of an invisible hero/heroine :laughing: (figuratively invisible, that is)

Now, after all of that praise, here comes the big guns.
That was praise? :tongue:

Let me start by saying that receiving encouragement and, indeed, a kick in the pants to get started on something if it's something I want for myself and might either be too lazy to do, too intimidated to start (seeing big picture can be a real pain in the behind - sure, you can take it in baby steps, but when you see all the work in one big picture like I tend to, it just feels like it would take too much energy to even contemplate), or it would be too much to hope for* (which is what @Kayness ' post sounded like) is very much appreciated (was just discussing a friend of mine who I'll mention "I should [insert activity I'd like to do but have already dismissed as being too much work, time money, whatever]", and next thing I know I've cranked out a ton of whatever it was I was wanting to do - people like that are VERY good for me). It may be that your friend and sister want to do these things and for whatever reason don't, in which case as many have said positive encouragement (without any hint of nagging or forcing your preferences on them) is a good way to go.

However, as @nottie said self-improvement is something that has to come from within. I'm not going to have the motivation to do it because someone else wants it, and as other people have mentioned the quickest way to get me to be stubborn is to make me feel like it's something I have to do or something someone's forcing on me (the privilege of being able to choose is something I value immensely, something I see almost as being a right - let's not get into the ugly behavior I can exhibit when someone volunteers me without asking! :frustrating:). About the only time I exhibit the strength @wayupnorth talked about is when I'm putting my foot down - i.e. being stubborn about something I don't want (I determined after reading so much about Nines that if I spent half the effort doing the things I want instead of avoiding what I don't, I'd move mountains :laughing: not to mention be much a much happier person :rolleyes:). I know I have the strength and courage to do things, I just HATE being out of my comfort zone - something I'm forcing myself to work on, but MAN is it difficult!!

Can you develop a sense of decisiveness, a need for recognition and a personal agenda?
How? ... But still, she is plain, and I like her to strive for something. ... I think this is very important
I would say the question is not how, but why? Why are a sense of decisiveness, a need for recognition and a personal agenda important? My guess is that either you have those things and they bring you satisfaction and therefore you think they will do the same for your sister and friend, or that you simply think that those things are inherently positive, to which I again ask why?

As for your sister being good at things and you wanting her to tout her abilities, perhaps she she sees things things as being for her own enjoyment. I took violin lessons for years and I always resented the expectation that I *wanted* to perform, particularly the expectation that if I had a talent it "should" be shared (ah, expectations and shoulds, a couple of things I particularly loathe, generally speaking). Public performance seemed...irrelevant - after all, I'd learned for my own pleasure, not someone else's. Why would I share something with others that I was learning to please myself - if those others had asked me to play for them or I knew they'd enjoy it I would have, but to make the assumption that an audience's worth of people wanted to hear/see me/my talent seemed presumptuous and like I was just looking to show off, "Look at me, look at me, look what I can do!" It took me years to figure out that people actually *want* to perform, and many more years to figure out that when that happens they might actually simply want to demonstrate their talent or share it with others - for a long time I assumed that those who wanted to perform were just wanting to be the center of attention, be in the spotlight, something that I can relate to in some things (generally showing off my intelligence where I know I excel, which is something I am not particularly proud of) but usually find obnoxious. I think that's mostly due to the Nine "I'm nobody special" mentality, though the perfectionist One wing comes into play - if you aren't awesome at something, why would you brag about it?

And what's wrong with being plain? Why is striving for something seen as being inherently good? Yes, self-improvement is important, and certainly an area Nines can work on, but why are people so quick to praise chasing after success (as defined by society, something that annoys me)?

And really, why is invisibility such a bad thing? Downplaying your talents/abilities is one thing, but why is just not volunteering information on them a bad thing?

I cherish their company, they helped me when I was in a dark place. I want to do something in exchange of their understanding :kitteh:.
Basically this post is questioning whether you are truly doing something for them. Being Nines it's quite likely as they tend to neglect what they want or try to hide their talents, but...ugh, it just seems presumptive (which I believe you've already mentioned, so I'll shut up now :laughing:).

Finally, if someone is happy with who they are right now, why on earth would you want to disturb that? Assuming they are truly happy, of course, and not just content/complacent, which...well, Nines. :laughing:



*I got that phrase from a description I read about Twos and Nines at work:
This partnership can be like introducing a jump start to a source of potential energy. Givers go into action for other people's needs, and Mediators need to be activated. This is a common partnership in both marriage and business life. It works very well when agendas coincide.

The Nine holds the agenda but has managed to bury it under secondary commitments. It matters too much. It's too much to hope for. It's too important to complete. A Two's magic lies in meeting needs, in making hopes happen, in drawing people out. If the work agendas match, an energetic jump start activates Nine's agenda. The Two focuses on structuring the Nine's potential, and the Nine rides the current of energy and regard.
 
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