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There is no such thing as the INFJ.

I am a confirmed (not a "Google tested") INFJ, and I hate being controlled or being controlling. I have no mystic superpowers, I don't do "fake Fe", I don't connect magical dots or have premonitions. I ride a motorbike, and I'm not demisexual. Did I forget anything?

With all due understanding for bad past experiences, but I sometimes think people should just stop all that typing. People are people. Some are balanced, some have massive insecurities or (mental) problems, but that has nothing to do with type. It is so, so limiting, and it makes you blind for everything that can be exciting and good in a relationship. I sometimes really begin to wonder how people can date, or have relationships like this.

If anything, that type of stuff is supposed to help you understand someone's cognitive process (!). It does not make you a specific type of person.

/rantover
 

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MOTM January 2013
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That wasn't an INFJ you were married to. That was an INFP.

The Fi dominant Ne creative type (which is called INFP in MBTI and EII/INFj in socionics) is a supervisor type to the ENTP. This means that they can see the weakest spot of your personality and you won't be able to do anything to fully please them. They will always find something wrong with you and always nag you about things that hurt you the most. Supervision marriages tend to be miserable and you should stay away from your supervisor types in the future. There is more written about it in this article Supervision Relations Read this article putting yourself in place of supervisee and her in place of supervisor and see how it matches your experience.

The part about not being able to handle violent films was the first clue. Since INFPs are Fi dominant they are almost hypersensitive emotionally and often cannot stand any type of cruelty or violence.

If you study socionics intertype relationships, you can avoid these unpleasant matches.
Erm, you do realize this is socionics info not MBTI or Jungian functions?
Fwiw, so much is wrong with this.

INFJs can see ENTP's weaknesses, but they communicate them in a soft Fe form to which ENTP is receptive to and capable of learning from, because of ENTP's tertiary function is also Fe. Things turn awry when the ENTP has to spend time with INFP who is not only acutely observant of all of his ethical mistakes, but also overly sensitive and easily offended, and speaks of his offenses in terms of Fi which ENTP is unable to understand. At the same time the INFP is able to find an approach to any person, and get along with everyone, which makes ENTP feel awkward in comparison. Spending a long with with the INFP, the ENTP begins to feel himself as a social klutz, unwanted or undesirable, and generally a horrible person. This makes the ENTP miserable in the long term and deals severe blows to his self-esteem. ENTP then begins to fear the INFP and dread spending time together, as the OP has described. This doesn't happen with INFJ because first of all INFJ's Feeling function is only secondary i.e. INFJs are more tolerant of certain measure of insensitivity from their partners than INFPs with their dominant Fi, and secondly, because INFJ is able to constructively correct ENTP's behaviors since they speak the same Feeling language of Fe, which doesn't occur around INFP. On his side, the ENTP has a lot of trouble explaining anything to the INFP and influencing INFP's reasoning because INFP will completely ignore or even feel irritated by ENTP's Ti (Fi and Ti oppose each other). This trouble doesn't arise with the INFJ because INFJ shares ENTP's preference for Ti, which is INFJ's tertiary function.

Saying that, there are certainly unhealthy INFJs around, but ENTPs usually perceive them as equal partners. The fact that the OP said he started to fear them was the clue that he's probably dealing with an INFP, an partner on unequal footing whom he sees as detrimental or deleterious to himself. ENTPs and INFPs can be friends as long as they keep at a certain distance, but I've often seen INFPs ruin the plans and experiments of ENTPs with their strict Fi moralizing that has no tolerance for ENTP's Ti logic. That's why in socionics they are placed in position of supervisor to the ENTP. INFPs can stop ENTPs dead in their tracks.
Oh dear :laughing: What went wrong?

Quoted for the sake of ridiculousness.
 

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Not sure if she sounds like an INFJ.The description reminds me a lot of ISFJ girls I knew, especially the sexually naive and star wars part.Actually this is so Introverted Sensing.As far as I'm concerned, I have no sex taboo, and I often have sleeping issues because of watching movies and playing games late at night.Also I can be controlling, but in a very subtle way, people hardly notice my intentions.
 

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Erm, you do realize this is socionics info not MBTI or Jungian functions?
Fwiw, so much is wrong with this.
That's why the actual ENTPs comment on how much that was spot on. You're totally clueless. Thanks for the admitting to it lol.


Oh dear :laughing: What went wrong?

Quoted for the sake of ridiculousness.
You're quite silly aren't you.
 

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That wasn't an INFJ you were married to. That was an INFP.
My thoughts exactly... and an unhealthy / underdeveloped one at that.

In a relationship, an INFJ might appear as bossy (I'm often told by my fiancee that I'm a "Bossy-arse") but I'm certainly not controlling. Quite the contrary, in fact; I actively encourage that my ENFJ follows her own path, supporting her as best I can every step of the way.

In return, I get the same. It's thanks to her that my life is now back on track. Prior to getting with her, I was in a very dark and destructive place. She saved me, basically.

... but I digress. INFJs are amazing if you give them the love and support they require. Find an actual INFJ, seduce the shit out of her and then have yourselves an amazing life together.
 

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MOTM January 2013
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That's why the actual ENTPs comment on how much that was spot on. You're totally clueless. Thanks for the admitting to it lol.



You're quite silly aren't you.
And??? Oh you did well in making yourself look clueless dear. Socionics still doesn't pass for jungian functions though, sorry to say. You know, all you have to do is just admit when you are wrong. I would be quite happy to forward this post to a few other INFP's and see what they make of it. If that's what you want?
 

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It's been a while since I've been on PerC but life has driven me back here. I'm hoping some of you INFJs can give me some help. I was married for 12 miserable years to an INFJ. She was very controlling, uncompromising and over-sensitive to everything. She also was very sexually naïve and couldn't handle any sort of violent or tense entertainment, eg a PG film like Star Wars was off limits after 6 because she couldn't sleep afterwards.

I'm divorced now and have started communicating with an INFJ. I've noticed the typical chemistry is there, easy conversation, an intangible attraction, etc. I have a very strong instinct to be an aggressive pleaser in a relationship. I can feel it starting up again.

Having said that, as my title says, I'm scared to death of INFJs. If I had typed her earlier than I did I probably would have avoided her all together just because of the pain of my past experience.

I'm willing to be proven wrong but I'm very hesitant. Can you as a group give me some reasons why would be worth trying an INFJ relationship again.

Similar people are going to share similar tendencies, but maturity makes a big difference as to how well their tendencies are regulated. That was pointed out to me by a dear friend, INFJ, who may have positively influenced me more than any other person in my life outside of my family. I was afraid of turning out like my mom--who is something of a NF nutcase (not sure which type)--and she counselled me to not be afraid because she could already see assurances of maturity that would prevent me from doing the terrible things my mom did.

She was right.

INFJs are going to share similar tendencies, but it is up to each individual how they express their preferences--either constructively or maladaptively. At their worst, any temperament type can make life hell for any other temperament type, yeah? And vice-versa, at their best, any temperament type can foster a positive and satisfying relationship with any other temperament type. Compatibility obviously makes things easier--can facilitate incredibly satisfying romance--but, as you learned first hand, compatibility can't fix everything.

If you are honest with your new love interest--explaining why you might seem hypersensitive or overreact to something small that she does which reminds you of your ex--and, if she is mature--she will understand. She will know that it takes times to build trust in a romance, especially after coming out of a nasty divorce, and she will respect you for being able to share that with her.

Of the INFJs that I know, I am struck by their compassion and willingness to do whatever it takes to help someone they love heal from emotional bruises, overcome their inhibitions, etc. Moreover, I can give you some more personal reassurances... one of my INFJ friends is allegedly a sex fiend with her ENTP husband, and very willing to let him do his ENTP thing even if it means she hardly ever gets to see him (more of a maturity thing on his part I suspect). And my INFJ sister is a huge Star Wars fan. Which is good because her ENTP husband is an even bigger Star Wars fan. They had their differences in the beginning, when bro-in-law was working on his dissertation and she was knocked up and feeling alone--but they worked it out and are very much in love with each other going on 10 years, 5 kids.

“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.” Leo Tolstoy — Anna Karenina
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Saying that, there are certainly unhealthy INFJs around, but ENTPs usually perceive them as equal partners. The fact that the OP said he started to fear them was the clue that he's probably dealing with an INFP, an partner on unequal footing whom he sees as detrimental or deleterious to himself. ENTPs and INFPs can be friends as long as they keep at a certain distance, but I've often seen INFPs ruin the plans and experiments of ENTPs with their strict Fi moralizing that has no tolerance for ENTP's Ti logic. That's why in socionics they are placed in position of supervisor to the ENTP. INFPs can stop ENTPs dead in their tracks.
Just to make things clear, my ex was 100% an INFJ. She tested that way from MBTI and Kersey and pretty much matched the book description. My best friend is an INFP and I work with several. I have to be thoughtful and careful around them not to be too dominate as I tend to stop them in their tracks. But your absolutely correct that INFP/ENTP relationships are best kept at some level of distance. If I had to be roommates with my INFP friend one of us would end up dead.
 

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That wasn't an INFJ you were married to. That was an INFP.

The Fi dominant Ne creative type (which is called INFP in MBTI and EII/INFj in socionics) is a supervisor type to the ENTP. This means that they can see the weakest spot of your personality and you won't be able to do anything to fully please them. They will always find something wrong with you and always nag you about things that hurt you the most. Supervision marriages tend to be miserable and you should stay away from your supervisor types in the future. There is more written about it in this article Supervision Relations Read this article putting yourself in place of supervisee and her in place of supervisor and see how it matches your experience.

The part about not being able to handle violent films was the first clue. Since INFPs are Fi dominant they are almost hypersensitive emotionally and often cannot stand any type of cruelty or violence.

If you study socionics intertype relationships, you can avoid these unpleasant matches.
But that would make me INFP. Some guys bring out that sort of thing in me. There's a guy who I don't really have any clue about what his feelings towards me are, and I get exactly like that with films. You know the machine in the Princess Bride? I had to leave the room when we were watching that. Like, that's just plain weird, because I am NOT usually like that. Anyway, just thought I'd mention. If she was an INFP then I may also be, and I'm pretty sure I'm infj. I think that there was some psychological thing going on in her head where she was trying to be manipulative or something by doing such things. INFJ's seem to be able to do all sorts of strange things like that without really knowing why.
 

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Just to make things clear, my ex was 100% an INFJ. She tested that way from MBTI and Kersey and pretty much matched the book description. My best friend is an INFP and I work with several. I have to be thoughtful and careful around them not to be too dominate as I tend to stop them in their tracks. But your absolutely correct that INFP/ENTP relationships are best kept at some level of distance. If I had to be roommates with my INFP friend one of us would end up dead.
Still sounds unclear why you would marry a childish individual (based upon your descriptions), also how you note potential Highly Sensitive Person traits with bigger issues than typologies.
 

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Just to make things clear, my ex was 100% an INFJ. She tested that way from MBTI and Kersey and pretty much matched the book description.
Descriptions and self-testing aren't worth shit. I self test as an xNTJ; many aspects of the INFJ descriptions don't match me at all. However, I have been professionally assessed and am indeed an INFJ. Unless a person has their cognitive function preferences assessed by qualified professionals, I'd be skeptical of anyone saying they're "Definitely" type 'X'. Based on what? Self assessment and a handful of crappy internet tests?

Indeed.

She may well be an INFJ; I couldn't possibly know as I've never met the woman. However, it's worth bearing in mind that people aren't always what they claim to be. Sometimes inadvertently, sometimes purposefully. It's a sorry state of affairs, but the MBTI has been reduced to pop-psychology these days.

Anyway, best of luck with your future relationships :)
 

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Those are some VERY interesting points you make. Well done!

My thing is, I would think that this would actually turn the ENTP ON to the INFP.
It does make the ENTPs to try to "conquer" the heart of the INFP, but they suffer defeat after defeat and their ego turns to slump after a few months-years of the INFP chipping away at the ENTP's self-esteem.
 

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And??? Oh you did well in making yourself look clueless dear. Socionics still doesn't pass for jungian functions though, sorry to say. You know, all you have to do is just admit when you are wrong. I would be quite happy to forward this post to a few other INFP's and see what they make of it. If that's what you want?
I keep pointing out to you how the actual ENTPs agree with this and saying that what I wrote is spot on, and you keep denying the facts that are right before your eyes. You're not particularly intelligent are you? How about you don't comment on something you're clueless about to save yourself the embarrassment of having your ignorance is pointed out to you.

If you sit and carefully observe the kind of intertype relationships that happen between MBTI types they carefully mirror the kind of relationships that are described in socionics. But that would be too much to ask of someone who is used to investing so little thought into what she's saying.
 

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I keep pointing out to you how the actual ENTPs agree with this and saying that what I wrote is spot on, and you keep denying the facts that are right before your eyes. You're not particularly intelligent are you? How about you don't comment on something you're clueless about to save yourself the embarrassment of having your ignorance is pointed out to you.

If you sit and carefully observe the kind of intertype relationships that happen between MBTI types they carefully mirror the kind of relationships that are described in socionics. But that would be too much to ask of someone who is used to investing so little thought into what she's saying.
So am I mistyped? What do you think? MBTI ENTP is not the same as socionics ENTP and intertype relations is an original socionics theory. Have you been watching too much of DJArandee by any chance, it sounds like similar spiel. Personal snark about intelligence isn't earning you brownie points either, I have no wish to insult your intelligence, just your knowledge base. So, you think socionics functions are the same as MBTI? Please answer that.
 

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So am I mistyped? What do you think? MBTI ENTP is not the same as socionics ENTP and intertype relations is an original socionics theory. Have you been watching too much of DJArandee by any chance, it sounds like similar spiel. Personal snark about intelligence isn't earning you brownie points either, I have no wish to insult your intelligence, just your knowledge base. So, you think socionics functions are the same as MBTI? Please answer that.
By how unobservant and cursory you have demonstrated yourself to be in your arguments, you are one of the extraverted feeling types ExFx.

Have you been watching too much of DJArandee by any chance, it sounds like similar spiel.
Attributing nonexistent actions or intentions to whoever you're conversing with makes for a very poor argument on your part.

So, you think socionics functions are the same as MBTI? Please answer that.
The intertype relations between the two typologies certainly work out very similarly.
 

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By how unobservant and cursory you have demonstrated yourself to be in your arguments, you are one of the extraverted feeling types ExFx.
:laughing:

Attributing nonexistent actions or intentions to whoever you're conversing with makes for a very poor argument on your part.
The intertype relations between the two typologies certainly work out very similarly.
Very similarly is not the same though. The differences are quite obvious. Your link with table doesn't prove anything. Read socionics functions and the MBTI functions or rather Jungian functions, tell me the differences you see.
 

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Ladies, (@Shayley @mushr00m) lets not sully this thread with your arguments.
We should focus on the point, that ENTP's should fear us INFJ's :kitteh:

Twitch
 
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It does make the ENTPs to try to "conquer" the heart of the INFP, but they suffer defeat after defeat and their ego turns to slump after a few months-years of the INFP chipping away at the ENTP's self-esteem.
I find this interesting.

I think, at times, any NT needs a little bit of "humiliation" (for lack of a better word). Someone needs to chip away at their egos a bit, and I actually think ENTPs will APPRECIATE you for this.

Perhaps what you're saying is different than what I'm saying. An INFJ's approach is "yeah, I see right thru you, but I know that you have great potential, and I want to help you realize it," while an INFP's approach is "yeah, I see right thru you, and I think you're shitty and I will remind you of your flaws any chance I get."

It's constructive criticism vs. harsh criticism, in other words. One wants to lend a helping hand, the other wants to point his finger.
 

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I think you should give it a go. I will be cliche here and say that, even though we are the same personality type, we are all unique like snowflakes. No one INFJ should be the standard for all INFJs. From the information you have provided on your ex wife, I don't think I would like her very much and she doesn't seem very INFJ-ish to me. I would say that I am somewhat controlling in certain situations but I would never let that get in the way of a relationship with someone I loved. I don't particularly enjoy the violent parts of movies but they aren't that bad, especially something like Star Wars. I have tended to see these more extreme personality quirks as a product of upbringing and/or environment as well.
 

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I find this interesting.

I think, at times, any NT needs a little bit of "humiliation" (for lack of a better word). Someone needs to chip away at their egos a bit, and I actually think ENTPs will APPRECIATE you for this.

Perhaps what you're saying is different than what I'm saying. An INFJ's approach is "yeah, I see right thru you, but I know that you have great potential, and I want to help you realize it," while an INFP's approach is "yeah, I see right thru you, and I think you're shitty and I will remind you of your flaws any chance I get."

It's constructive criticism vs. harsh criticism, in other words. One wants to lend a helping hand, the other wants to point his finger.
Sounds very familiar on the unhealthy INFP side, although I do wonder if a fear of judgement or criticism is 'innately INFP in nature' as something more easily projected onto others (in your experience).
 
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