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Schedule-resistant ISFPs - Am I going to lose my best friend? :(

4K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  Aelthwyn 
#1 ·
At my firm, there is an ISFP co-worker with whom I get along really well (I'm an INTJ guy, she's an ISFP gal; both in early 30s). We're definitely not interested in each other romantically, but occasionally when I'm having lunch, she'll join me, or vice-versa. We do this 1-3 times a week. In that way, we've formed a really warm friendship. She is among my favorite people in the world, and I love her sensitivity and warmth towards me; I think she likes that she is among the few people I open up to.

My problem is that I am leaving this job in a week, and the next one (it's a finance-tech start-up) is going to be more stressful with far longer hours. She is my best friend from this job and I'd love for us to continue being friends. However, though she agrees, she also says that it is very difficult for her to schedule a meetup in advance. She cannot commit to something beforehand; her moods might change and all that.

For example, what I would like is to know if she'd like to meet up for lunch on Saturday at least 2-3 days in advance (then I can ensure that I'm not working at that time). On the other hand, she says that she cannot confirm something that early; she'd prefer to confirm a couple of hours in advance. With the work schedule I expect, that won't work out. Even if I am able to meet up, I am an INTJ with a strong I and J component; I need time to push the work out of my mind and to be emotionally available for a friend.

We've been good friends for 2 years now (we met at this firm). Does this mean that when I leave this company, I also have to leave this friendship behind? I'd hate to lose her , and unless I propose a good solution, I can foresee that happening here. That would be sad :th_sad:

Help? Advice? Any interesting or creative ideas?
 
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#3 ·
If you are already doing lunch together up to three times a week, why do you suddenly need two days advance?
Right now we work at the same company, so we can easily hang out for lunch without any prior preparation. Once I move to the new firm, we will need to schedule things in advance.

Here is what I would suggest, though. Plan it in your mind, but be ready for her to say no, and don't ask her until two hours before--but in your mind plan... Don't know if that makes sense...
It does; I understand what you are recommending. Thank you.

I think at some point, if she cancels on me repeatedly, then I'm going to get exhausted. This is not a romantic relationship; if she keeps refusing my platonic requests, then at some point, I'm going to look needy and desperate. I don't want that to happen (PS: I'm an INTJ!)

Oddly enough, I'm the closest thing she has to a friend and she is one of my favorite people too; at the same time, because of her unreliability, she cannot really hold on to friends. I think too am going to get added to her long list of ex-besties.

That would be sad for both of us :(
 
#5 ·
I think you are overthinking and exaggerating (I don´t mean anything mean)....if you are really good friends and if she enjoys spending time with you, you will continue being friends and she will text you to meet up or go for lunch herself. There is no need to plan this things in advance. But, I think you are overly afraid to lose her, so you want to control everything.... but that´s not how it goes. :D Just relax :)
 
#8 ·
I know. And that is why I am sad. My work is important to me but so is she; if she doesn't let me know at least a few days in advance, then I won't be able to make time for her anymore. That's how this friendship will end I think.

If anyone has any ideas on what I can do, I'd love to hear you out :( I'm feeling lost and lonely here.
 
#11 ·
I actually have pretty high Ni, so I like having a little notice; few days advance maybe.
Friends are friends. If she respects you, she'll understand.

I'm still distant friends with people I've worked with in the past; might not be exactly what you want to hear, but I am in touch with them and even see them once in a while. It's not the same as it was, but I didn't give up on them. Any ex-friends are ex-friends for reasons of hurt, not scheduling.
 
#12 ·
Any ex-friends are ex-friends for reasons of hurt, not scheduling.

This is well-said and very touching - thank you for that. At the same time, I can see how this might be true of ISFPs in general, but in her case, she has so few long-term friends that I'd be surprised if she didn't relegate me to the ex-list as well. My best friends are people I've known for 8-10 years; my oldest (though not closest) friendships have already hit the 2-decade mark. Her best buddy is someone she's known for less than 15 months, and even that is because of close proximity (they're roomies) - one you remove that factor, then I fear that she has no interest or patience with long-term friendships.

On the other hand, I'm driven by the idea of having friends at the age of 50, 60 or even older, who've known me for multiple decades...who've seen me grow and struggle and evolve and become a better man. I don't think this is something that fascinates her as much.

Ah well, I whine too much. All said, the important thing is that I really appreciate all the ideas that you've all shared with me. I can't naturally get into the head-mind of an ISFP, so when you express your perspectives and ideas, it helps me see the world from her perspective. That is very helpful here; it's helping me become more patient and understanding of where she is coming from and what she wants from her friendships. So thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts. This is very helpful.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Her moods might change and all that? is she anti social? or bipolar? lol cause other than that the only reason i would think she would say that is cause she's being polite and doesn't want to stay in touch with you..

You should tell her that you cant meet up that early that you need a while to unwind from work..if she cares about you
im sure she can find a date that u two can meet up like u mentioned.I honestly hate making commitments cause im not sure i can keep them and dont wanna have to cancel on people at the last minute but if i care about someone enough ill force myself to meet that person ill just tell them,if they ask me if i wanna hang out at a certain date that im not sure,that ill let them know and ill call them a day before or a couple of hours before if i dont feel like going anymore.I do have some anxiety issues so that does kinda affect my willingness to hangout with people.
 
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#14 ·
Her moods might change and all that? is she anti social? or bipolar? lol cause other than that the only reason i would think she would say that is cause she's being polite and doesn't want to stay in touch with you..

You should tell her that you cant meet up that early that you need a while to unwind from work..if she cares about you
im sure she can find a date that u two can meet up like u mentioned.
I think this is exactly where I am. I'll explain things to her, and after that, if she's still unavailable to chat and hang out, then so be it. Then I'll know how important the relationship is to her - knowing that is good, after all.

Thanks for your note mate; I appreciate you sharing your thoughts here.
 
#16 ·
I was thinking of making a thread, but then ran across this one which is so much like what I’m going through it’s a bit freaky. I am also an INTJ with an ISFP friend. We met at work and our friendship grew slowly over time, it wasn’t an instant click, but a growing mutual understanding over the past two and a half years. I liked her, she got my weird introverted quirks and I got hers. We would get together for lunch a few times a week and before her department relocated we were meeting almost everyday. She’s still in the same company, but her department is now about a block away on our campus. Initially she would still come over a couple times a week and then once a week and now it’s been about a month since Ive seen her. But honestly, if it hadn’t been for me asking to meet for lunch we probably would’ve stopped sooner. The last time I spoke to her its because she had a question on a project.

We were close, she said as much, she put herself out there but knowing your sensitivity to criticism I made sure to temper my INTJ tendencies just a bit, which actually helped me to try and see things from a different perspective and not be a blunt jerk, heh. After the move I felt her drifting, like I don’t know, eventually(talking a couple months) she seemed happy enough to be there, but just didn’t seem to want to come if she wasn’t asked. As much as I like hanging out with her, like they say, how do you hold on to someone that doesn’t seem to want to hang on to you?

So the reason really for my post is to try to get an understanding of her actions. Also if Musafir is still around, maybe an update on how things are going for him. Because honestly, I’m feeling kind of abandoned. I’ve lost touch with plenty of “friends” before, but this is different- I let her IN, which I think ISFP’s get my meaning here, and I know any other INTJs do. I’d rather understand her than resent her. Like, our friendship isn’t worth the five minute walk, wtf?

I also ran across this thread: personalitycafe.com/isfp-forum-artists/985-isfp-how-do-you-relate-other-people.html and after reading it the conclusion I come to is that while ISFP’s care for those they consider “friends”, overall the need for friends in their life doesn’t rank very high. She was my closest friend and I was hers, but it seems for her all that means is I was at the top of a list of people she could ultimately do without. Like it was all just a distraction to help her get through her day and now she’s found others to keep her busy. And that seems like such an incredibly cold way to go through life. I simply don’t interact much with those I don’t care about, which is everybody, heh.

Which isn’t to say you guys don’t care for people, she loves her husband and little boy very much, but that’s family. It seems you guys have family and then everyone else, whereas most have family and friends and everyone else. This may sound fairly critical overall, I wont lie and say Im being emotionless, actually its completely the opposite, my emotions keep bubbling up on this. In my office I’m reminded of her daily, makes it a bit hard to keep my emotions in check. I think if I could just get some understanding of what she’s thinking I can get past it. I mean, ultimately what are friends for you guys? Is it simply out of sight-out of mind-I assume you’re doing ok so no need to check in? Is it over? Is there any hope for things, to her are we simply just on pause and when shes around our friendship is just supposed to kick in? Im just totally lost and confused here and feeling like shes turned her back on me certainly isnt helping any.

Sorry for the length.
 
#18 ·
-- But honestly, if it hadn’t been for me asking to meet for lunch we probably would’ve stopped sooner. The last time I spoke to her its because she had a question on a project.

-- After the move I felt her drifting, like I don’t know, eventually(talking a couple months) she seemed happy enough to be there, but just didn’t seem to want to come if she wasn’t asked.

-- Because honestly, I’m feeling kind of abandoned. I’ve lost touch with plenty of “friends” before, but this is different- I let her IN, which I think ISFP’s get my meaning here, and I know any other INTJs do. I’d rather understand her than resent her. Like, our friendship isn’t worth the five minute walk, wtf?

-- ... I was at the top of a list of people she could ultimately do without. Like it was all just a distraction to help her get through her day and now she’s found others to keep her busy.

-- Is it simply out of sight-out of mind-I assume you’re doing ok so no need to check in? Is it over?
I've quoted some parts of your answer that resonated with me.

Yeah, things with my ISFP are definitely over. When we started off, I'd told her (and then repeated multiple times) that due to childhood abuse, I was very slow to trust people. That there were just 3 people in the world that I felt I could trust emotionally. As you said, I let her in. And then later realized that for her, I was important as long as I was in front of her. "Out-of-sight = Out-of-mind". All she had to do was send me one email clarifying that she couldn't meet up anymore. Any direct statement like that would have been enough. Instead, she kept re-scheduling our plans for almost 2 months, while continually hanging out with other people close around her (here, by close I mean logistical proximity). This continued for 2 months till I sent her a door-slam email and closed our friendship.

I confess, it was painful and burnt like hell for more than 4-6 weeks, and then I had to take drastic measures to end my pain. I swear, never again will I allow an ISFP into my life. The predominant emotion I felt then is of being manipulated and discarded like used toilet paper. She knew precisely how much this loss would hurt me; she knew the circumstances under which my PTSD would cause nightmares; and worse, she knew that a small honest email from her would have given me some relief. Instead, she lied and lied for weeks till I understood that she didn't care.

In hindsight, some people sleep with you and then walk away and then disappear at dawn before you wake up, making you feel used and discarded. I can handle that. In this case - and in the same way - I feel emotionally used. That she wanted me around for the *feels*, but now that I'm not around her all the time, I'm to be discarded without care.

She's not evil in a malicious way, no. She's evil in a "I'm fiddling with my fiddle, who cares what happens elsewhere to others" way. Nero would be proud of her. Elsewhere, I'd read a post by a girl whose brother was an ISFP. They are/were sort-of-close, but she was convinced that if she died tomorrow, he'd feel sad for a day and then he'd get engrossed again in his video games. I understand her feelings.

For the future, I'm not particularly interested in re-visiting this topic, so I may not reply anymore here. "That_Guy", if you're an INTJ, here are two things that gave me some comfort and which I'm okay writing in a public forum:

(1) I make it a point not to think about her. Yeah, don't think of a 'polar bear' crap, but I'm an INTJ, I can will myself to do that.
(2) I read a book by Lenore Thompson on the MBTI, and she (herself an INTJ) wrote about how much INTJs can suffer when in a Ni-Fi loop. The best way for them to manage their pain is to focus completely on using the Te; that reduces Ni-Fi pain and makes it possible to deal with a situation coldly.

I expect a great deal of myself, and psychologically, I can be brutal upon myself. So I refuse to think of her. She does not exist. As far as I am concerned, she's dead to me and can burn in the seventh level of hell for all that I care.

I understand her, I hate her, and she is dead to me.
 
#17 ·
I think this thread is dealing with the ISFPs stackings. Is the ISFP a social, sexual, or self-preserving type?

Personally I am an SP/SX, so I highly prioritize my family over other social realms, and given that you guys are having difficulties maintaining a friendship with your ISFP, I would say they could be too. Reasons for me to be social are usually created by others.

There have been many times in my life where I lost a friend due to someone moving away or getting a new job, and it secretly made me sad. I believe it's like this for most people. But at the same time, I didn't really have a reason to interact with that person anymore, and couldn't just "make up" a reason... it would put too much social responsibility to be interesting on me. Those who I am still friends with are the ones who took initiative to reach out to me, and usually they'll have to continue to initiate, to which I usually respond enthusiastically if I like the person.

If you're about to move away from an ISFP but want to ensure future correspondence, I would suggest bringing it up before you leave. If the ISFP appreciates your friendship, I'm pretty certain the ISFP will respond to your invitations and suggestions positively without too much persuasion if any. You may even need to pull some strings and ask a few times, but be aware that most people do, at least for me. My friends generally accept my independence and do all the initiating, and I'm grateful for it.

So basically what I am trying to say is... you might need to step out of your comfort zone a bit, but the ISFP will likely respond positively. My two cents.
 
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#19 ·
I have a question for you both: if you were so 'best friends' why did you always see only for lunch? After 2 years if 2 people really want to hang out together they both find time. And not only lunch time. I like to meet new people and nurture relationship, but for me having just lunch with a person for 2 years is not enough for calling it a friendship. Either we really are friends and see each other at least during the weekend when we both have much more free time, or it's not worth it. And i understand that it's not always easy to open up with people, but you just have to find someone who really wants to pass time with you (and make activities with you, plan evenings, go for a walk...something out from the workplace) and not only have lunch with you. This said everyone has their own mind and can make their own decisions, it's not something type-related.
 
#21 ·
I have a question for you both: if you were so 'best friends' why did you always see only for lunch? After 2 years if 2 people really want to hang out together they both find time. And not only lunch time. I like to meet new people and nurture relationship, but for me having just lunch with a person for 2 years is not enough for calling it a friendship. Either we really are friends and see each other at least during the weekend when we both have much more free time, or it's not worth it.
Well in my case her free time was for her husband and 3yo little boy, which I was totally cool with. Personally the setting doesnt mean much to me, its the experience. I didnt need to see her outside of work, and I saw her just as much as others I worked with that I'd never call friends. We talked about our troubles, our families, our hopes. It just happened to be taking place in a lunchroom, heh.

The depth of our friendship wasnt just in my head, it was apparent to others we worked with. People are surprised when they've asked how she is doing and I say I dont know.
 
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