Thank you for sharing your experience, physicist. I'm studying science (i'm not very far into it), doing an advanced degree, which is really just a degree that is for people who want to go into research. I have been browsing through information about what it's -really- like to be involved in science for some time now, (thank the heavens for the internet) and found out many of the things you reiterated above, probably late last year. Thankfully i'm not invested in the idea of doing academic research, and intuitively figured out a lot of downsides to it. I was always aware of the bullshit and bureaucracy involved, and luckily the better lecturers here (i'm Australian) actually reveal their trials and tribulations- even to first years.Hi all, I just joined and figured I'd throw in my two cents on INFPs in science. I'm an INFP physicist. I've always been interested in the sciences, among other things, and ended up studying physics all through grad school. I have almost ten years of work experience now and I'm certainly no different than many INFPs here in being completely lost in terms of job and career. Let me say this first: I've always love the sciences and discovered physics as an undergraduate. It focuses on the big picture and the underlying ideas of how the world works, and I love that. Honestly I could do without the tedious details of calculating this or that. It has always been about understanding the underlying concepts that make nature work and how different phenomena relate to each other. However, being a practicing researcher in one of the hard sciences is not all it's cracked up to be. Unfortunately I was well into grad school before I figured that out. Working with faculty and attending conferences taught me what I needed to know, but way too late. Scientists and engineers are among the most closed minded people I've ever met and many are almost impossible to work around. They are incredibly egotistical, stuck in their ways and ideas, and always ready to tear apart anyone around them if they don't like something about their work. Whether in academics or industry, it can be quite a nasty environment to work in for an INFP unless you can figure out how to build a thick shell around you, something I have not been able to do. If relationships with your co-workers or customers is important to you, then think long and hard about a career in science because you are bound to be working with some arrogant and intolerant characters.
Another thing I didn't realize when I entered grad school is that the whole "publish or perish" thing is completely true and getting tenure at a university completely revolves around pumping out publications in major journals and bringing in grant money. The focus is not so much on quality science or papers, but on the money you bring in and the sheer quantity of papers you publish. You better be able to get along with the peer reviewers at the journal too, because if they don't like your paper for any reason, they'll shut you out and prevent you from publishing it. After five or six years, you will be judged by your peers on whether you are acceptable to the academy by your papers and grant money, and if you don't cut it then out you go. Academics is a cut throat and political business and if that doesn't fit your ideals, you will suffer. I chose not to go into academia once I learned this.
As for research, you must specialize in some tiny corner of your chosen field and pour your energy into working in that tiny area and publishing paper after paper on the same subject matter. Looking at journals you can quickly see the same professors publishing essentially the same papers over and over again with some small detail changed. Usually it is just an extension of their dissertation. It is not the idealistic world of being some free spirited professor that can study whatever they want and whenever they want. Maybe after you go through the tenure ordeal, you can make that happen. If you survive that, then you're in and you have more freedom--subject to teaching demands, university committee assignments, and bureaucratic administration.
Grants: grant funding is determined by government bureaucrats and political interests. if you want funding for something that is not the flavor of the day, good luck getting some money. Science is an intensely political enterprise these days, far from the ideal of a bunch of open minded intellectuals pondering the nature of things.
How did I manage? I worked in the federal government for a while and now I'm working for a company, though most of our revenues are supported by government funding. I work with jerks for co-workers and customers, in general. The egos are incredible, the attitudes are cynical and nasty, and good luck with forming any kind of satisfying personal relationships with them that give your work greater meaning. For me, the people i'm around have always shaped whether I've had a good day or bad day far more than the details of the work I'm doing on any given day. It took me a long time to realize this but it is crystallizing and all I want to do now is get away from these people.
So my point? I would never discourage anyone from the sciences-they're wonderful and I don't regret studying physics--but no one sat me down when I was younger and discussed with me the realities of working in science and engineering and I had to find out all of this for myself. I'm not sure what I would have done differently, but at least I would have not been so surprised at how nasty of a business it can be. Please just beware of this before you take the plunge!
This is such an INFP way to describe the pull towards the sciences!Whatever you like! I may not be the best to speak her because I am right in between t and f (but still leaning f), but I love biology and chemistry. Both would make for realistic job opportunities and it seems that is what you are interested in. I cannot explain these sciences or tell you to like them, but here is why I like them:
-Biology puts me in touch with the natural world and just makes life seem so much more REAL. It is, after all, the study of LIFE and that is just such an amazing and overwhelming concept to me it is so precious and unique to our world. If you decide to study biology you could do all kinds of things besides becoming a doctor like many assume. You could work to preserve endangered animals, keep the ecosystem in balance, work with plants, or become a teacher and I bet there are loads more jobs if you look it up
-Chemistry is like a very intricate puzzle to solve and once you understand one part of it, you just keep going deeper and deeper. I love how the whole world is made of chemistry. Everything can be broken down into the simplest parts of matter then build back up to create something amazing and unique. Chemical reactions help explain many of life's greatest mysteries and some of the most beautiful changes things go through. Chemists can work to create safe products for people, help create new types of medicine to save lives, and also become teachers of course! and other stuff im probably just not thinking of or articulate enough to explane
It sounds like music therapy, art therapy, or dance therapy might be a good fit for you. Even if your history of depression makes you hesitant to work with psych patients as an arts therapist you could work with stroke patients, Alzheimer's patients, etc.I want a career that have psychology, music and art, wrapped into one. I'm into psychology but I have had a history of depression. I don't think being a counselor would be a good idea if I'm on meds. I think I have bi-poler. Have lack of motivation and I have anxiety that never goes away. There's some things that you need to except in life to make things better for yourself instead of struggling to move forward in life. I want to learn about myself, know why I and other think the way they do. Music, I'm always listening to music. I'm very musically inclined, love singing. Would love to learn how to play an instrument. I love dancing. I memorize songs easily. Art, my surrounding are very important to me. Where I'm like a cafe, my apartment and bookstore, they all have to be inspiring. I need feel creative and imagine, atmospheres help me to. All these I love. Oh and I love to motivate people, encourage them to be better people. I love pushing people in the right direction, I care for people in that way a lot. Maybe I can be a career counselor and have a really cool inspiring office with indie music on. haha Encourage people to find the right career for them based on their personality type and passions.
Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate it. I've heard of art therapy before but have never heard of music or dance therapy. I'll definitely have to check all of out. I'm not really good at art, though the owl that I just painted surprised with how well I can actually paint. Van Goth-unlike Picasso-was a bad drawer when he was young but diligently taught himself how to draw. You may be surprised how well you sing if you sang in front of people, got there advice with how you sing. Maybe take some voice lessons. maybe in another life-funny lol. I always tell people that I'll be an ant in my next life or a piece of grass haha. How happy I'd be lol .It sounds like music therapy, art therapy, or dance therapy might be a good fit for you. Even if your history of depression makes you hesitant to work with psych patients as an arts therapist you could work with stroke patients, Alzheimer's patients, etc.
Music therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Art therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dance therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I too love music, psychology, and art and considered music therapy for a while but my complete lack of musical background (unless singing around the house counts) kinda forced me to rule it out. Maybe in another life. I've always been really interested in the sciences too and love working with theories but I also like for there to be some practical application so I considered things like forensic science and neuroscience in the past too. A few months ago I decided to pursue occupational therapy because it combines psychology, hard science, and some creative aspects. The further I go down this path the more doubts start to creep in that maybe I would be happier doing something less physically-based and a bit more solitary, but I can't tell yet if those are legitimate concerns or if it's just my INFP tendency to question and criticize every decision I make. In the meantime as an INFP who's borderline T/F it's good to see other INFPs with scientific tendencies.
as much as I hate programming for money (as I can't do what I want generally) ... I would say it is one of the most flexible fields for "money"...that is, if you have other pursuits outside of it... If I ever made any money from writing that was stable enough to do it full time, I would definitely say goodbye to that world forever. I could think of much worse... And it isn't really political at all, you generally just come in, and mostly left alone. Or you can freelance or start your own company. I gave up the idea of trying to find a love that is also a career long ago...I came to the conclusion they are all just jobs, and computers came rather easy to me. Although I do think it is right to select the type of company you work for... I try to work for companies I see as doing a good service to the world/community, etc...and avoid the giant corps.Well, I'm in computer science and I love programming. A lot of INFP are unsure of what they want to do but luckily for me, I've always been sure that this is what I've wanted to do. A lot of people also have this idea that coding is a boring job. It depends on the kind of code you're writing.
Personally for me, programming is really cool because I get to make stuff and some of the problems require really creative solutions.
I love to sing and the very few people I have sang in front of have told me my voice is good, but I don't think I could do it for a career. I don't really have any experience with music, I can't read music, and I don't play any instruments so it would be pretty difficult for me to get started doing something with music now. When I was little (maybe 7 or 8 years old) I begged my mom to let me take voice lessons but it never happened. I don't think I have the money to do it now and don't even know if I'd enjoy it now since I'm shy about singing in front of people. (Kinda bad trait for a musician to have I guess unless you're a recording session musician or a background singer.) I remember my friends used to complain to me about how they had to take piano lessons and I thought they were crazy to complain because I would have loved learning to play the piano. If I had gotten started with music when I was younger maybe I would have pursued it but I'm 22 now and at the stage in my life where I really just want to have a tolerable career that allows me to support myself. If I started with music now it would probably be years before I could get good enough and make enough connections to make money off it, assuming I ever could.You may be surprised how well you sing if you sang in front of people, got there advice with how you sing. Maybe take some voice lessons.
Thank you for your feedback. Honestly I'm with you - I don't really like working with people either. I'd rather do a behind the scenes kind of job where I could help people but not have to deal with them directly. I'm okay working with people one-on-one but I still prefer to work alone. I'm very indecisive too, but I don't really ask the people in my life for their opinions because most people I know are very different than me. They'd probably tell me to get an office job or whatever job they know of that makes a ton of money. My mom keeps trying to convince me to take receptionist-type jobs, which I've done before and hated (she's ESFJ and doesn't understand that not everybody is a people person like her - she thinks there's something wrong with me because I like spending time alone). I've considered probably a couple dozen career paths over the past few years (psychology, forensics, audio engineering, healthcare, etc.) and for every one of them I come up with reasons why that path wouldn't be a good fit for me.I would like to work with theory's too, be a philosopher, anthropologist or social scientist(in my book). You can be a researcher(in my do what you are book for INFP's) I think INFP's are good at thinking, analyzing. I know someone that doesn't like massage therapy because it's physical and is going into occupational therapy because it pays more and she likes psychology. As a massage therapist, my job is very physical. I don't like how it's physical, that I'm touching strangers. I'd rather talk to people, I think i can make more of a difference doing that. Some people think that massage therapy is a solitary job but it's not, you're very intimate with people and everyone wants to talk to you. They want to warm up to you so they can build trust with you.
I think occupational therapy will sort of be the same. I don't like working with people honestly, especially people I've never met before. I am so indecisive, I have to ask everyone for their opinion. I'm coming to the realization that I need to make decisions for myself, take what I need from peoples advice but don't take it all if I don't want to. Listen to yourself, just make sure you're making good decisions. What I see with you is that you have doubts about occupational therapy, if you have any doubts at all I would run away from making the decision of going into that career. I've had doubts about massage therapy and majoring in business, ran away from business right a way in college but not MT.
You should read; "Do what you are", it's a book about finding a career that suits you with your personality type. The book got it wrong that it would be good for me to be a massage therapist because I hate the career. Maybe I just don't like it and other INFP's do. I think Massage Therapy is for outgoing people more so. So maybe you shouldn't read it haha. Looking at the book and it has occupational therapist as a good health care job for INFP's, it give you the ability to work closely and intimately with clients or patients. It's creative and often spiritual with diagnosis and treatment. Lets you use your intuition and feeling preferences. Provides autonomy that INFP's prefer. You can be a Ethicist or Geneticist also. More careers to come, I'll research more since you helped me out.
I am uni lecturer (for a few years now) and I am seriously considering quitting. I had an inkling that it might not suit me during completion of my phd but i needed a job and after a phd being a lecturer seemed to be the job i was most qualified for. The thing I like most about it is the relative autonomy but this is negatively outweighed by feelings of isolation (co-workers lock themselves away in their offices, no lunches together) and when you do work in a team it can be a bit political and forming friendships doesn't happen on any deep level. I have also become frustrated with the all the effort that goes into an article but who really reads it (like I want to do something positive for the world but this form of 'helping' feels so blunt..). Like, surely instead of writing about the agricultural problems of a valley in Africa and presenting it at an International Geographical Conference (and being applauded on your academic and scientific brilliance) it would be a more worthwhile to actually go there and help out physically when there's a drought etc.. It feels this (Western?) desire to document and write about everything (particularly in academia where you are judged on the number of articles/books you write) is getting a bit extreme.Hi all, I just joined and figured I'd throw in my two cents on INFPs in science. I'm an INFP physicist. I've always been interested in the sciences, among other things, and ended up studying physics all through grad school. I have almost ten years of work experience now and I'm certainly no different than many INFPs here in being completely lost in terms of job and career. Let me say this first: I've always love the sciences and discovered physics as an undergraduate. It focuses on the big picture and the underlying ideas of how the world works, and I love that. Honestly I could do without the tedious details of calculating this or that. It has always been about understanding the underlying concepts that make nature work and how different phenomena relate to each other. However, being a practicing researcher in one of the hard sciences is not all it's cracked up to be. Unfortunately I was well into grad school before I figured that out. Working with faculty and attending conferences taught me what I needed to know, but way too late. Scientists and engineers are among the most closed minded people I've ever met and many are almost impossible to work around. They are incredibly egotistical, stuck in their ways and ideas, and always ready to tear apart anyone around them if they don't like something about their work. Whether in academics or industry, it can be quite a nasty environment to work in for an INFP unless you can figure out how to build a thick shell around you, something I have not been able to do. If relationships with your co-workers or customers is important to you, then think long and hard about a career in science because you are bound to be working with some arrogant and intolerant characters.
Another thing I didn't realize when I entered grad school is that the whole "publish or perish" thing is completely true and getting tenure at a university completely revolves around pumping out publications in major journals and bringing in grant money. The focus is not so much on quality science or papers, but on the money you bring in and the sheer quantity of papers you publish. You better be able to get along with the peer reviewers at the journal too, because if they don't like your paper for any reason, they'll shut you out and prevent you from publishing it. After five or six years, you will be judged by your peers on whether you are acceptable to the academy by your papers and grant money, and if you don't cut it then out you go. Academics is a cut throat and political business and if that doesn't fit your ideals, you will suffer. I chose not to go into academia once I learned this.
As for research, you must specialize in some tiny corner of your chosen field and pour your energy into working in that tiny area and publishing paper after paper on the same subject matter. Looking at journals you can quickly see the same professors publishing essentially the same papers over and over again with some small detail changed. Usually it is just an extension of their dissertation. It is not the idealistic world of being some free spirited professor that can study whatever they want and whenever they want. Maybe after you go through the tenure ordeal, you can make that happen. If you survive that, then you're in and you have more freedom--subject to teaching demands, university committee assignments, and bureaucratic administration.
Grants: grant funding is determined by government bureaucrats and political interests. if you want funding for something that is not the flavor of the day, good luck getting some money. Science is an intensely political enterprise these days, far from the ideal of a bunch of open minded intellectuals pondering the nature of things.
How did I manage? I worked in the federal government for a while and now I'm working for a company, though most of our revenues are supported by government funding. I work with jerks for co-workers and customers, in general. The egos are incredible, the attitudes are cynical and nasty, and good luck with forming any kind of satisfying personal relationships with them that give your work greater meaning. For me, the people i'm around have always shaped whether I've had a good day or bad day far more than the details of the work I'm doing on any given day. It took me a long time to realize this but it is crystallizing and all I want to do now is get away from these people.
So my point? I would never discourage anyone from the sciences-they're wonderful and I don't regret studying physics--but no one sat me down when I was younger and discussed with me the realities of working in science and engineering and I had to find out all of this for myself. I'm not sure what I would have done differently, but at least I would have not been so surprised at how nasty of a business it can be. Please just beware of this before you take the plunge!