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Discussion Starter #1
This was (sorta) touched on in another thread, and I was curious about it.

What are your thoughts? How would you differentiate between the two?
 

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Se>Ti... I think when I use it in that order, the Ti is just making up excuses. "Let's go down a 15 story slip and slide." "Cats have a better chance of surviving if they fall from a 5 story building instead of a 1 story building, so that's a fantastic idea." And then I use the Ti to not die in the process.

Ti>Se... Se is like the debate moderator. It keeps my Ti in check and gives concreteness to my Ti.
 

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how so? Could you give an example?
*Swishes thought in mouth*

Like... designing something... let's say it's a cork-board located in a hallway in a school and holds papers. My Ti says, "Okay, well there needs to be ample room for the amount of papers, the cork needs to be deep enough for the pins, and it needs to be firm on the wall." My Se then tells me there is a current in the room that disarranges the papers, which allows my Ti to problem solve. Se also informs me which stains for the wood would be nicest with the painted walls.
 

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Attitude in their core distinction.

ESTP's should give credit and meaning to the object.

ISTP's are the reverse. They try to strip the object of its meaning and devalue it.

Of course it may not be that simple dependent on how some people scale on their attitude level.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Attitude in their core distinction.

ESTP's should give credit and meaning to the object.

ISTP's are the reverse. They try to strip the object of its meaning and devalue it.

Of course it may not be that simple dependent on how some people scale on their attitude level.
how would ESTP give 'credit and meaning'?

How would ISTPs devalue it?
 

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how would ESTP give 'credit and meaning'?

How would ISTPs devalue it?
Imagine a Lamborghini passes by.

An ESTP would go: "Dude, look at that awesome car!" - they're being stimulated by it in some form and attach it with value, pay attention to it. In extreme cases glorify it.

An ISTP would notice the car, but not necessarily speak of it. In fact, the ISTP may not even be interested in the car at all, or it's awesomeness as the car doesn't affect us. It has no influence over us, it doesn't affect us, we don't naturally care for it. It just is. Indifference, or in extreme cases hating it even.

Of course this may be a dumb example, but can be applied across the board in terms of core distinction between extroversion and introversion. From actual concrete objects to 'the objective' as reference to 'the external'.

The example however is more along the lines of extreme extrovert vs. introvert. In reality there's a large grey area in between. Overall however a fool proof principle in my mind to determine the difference in most of the cases.
 

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Se>Ti
It's like when I decide to eat a triple size sonic blast full of reeses pieces.

"That will make you feel sick/fat/whatever"--OMG SHUT UP THIS IS SO AAAAWESOME

Ti>Se
Is like today when I really really wanted to race to the store to look at new bathing suits because I saw a bright red one and was suddenly ON FIRE to have a bright red suit for no fucking reason at all. First my Ti tries to justify it: I totally need this for the 4th of July

Then I slowly get a grip on myself and beat back the Se like the whore that it is. You don't need that right now today. You can wait til next weekend, this weekend you really need to start building that cabinet

Then I pout for a little while and whine in my head about how much that sucks.
 

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Imagine a Lamborghini passes by.

An ESTP would go: "Dude, look at that awesome car!" - they're being stimulated by it in some form and attach it with value, pay attention to it. In extreme cases glorify it.

An ISTP would notice the car, but not necessarily speak of it. In fact, the ISTP may not even be interested in the car at all, or it's awesomeness as the car doesn't affect us. It has no influence over us, it doesn't affect us, we don't naturally care for it. It just is. Indifference, or in extreme cases hating it even.

Of course this may be a dumb example, but can be applied across the board in terms of core distinction between extroversion and introversion. From actual concrete objects to 'the objective' as reference to 'the external'.

The example however is more along the lines of extreme extrovert vs. introvert. In reality there's a large grey area in between. Overall however a fool proof principle in my mind to determine the difference in most of the cases.
That sounds more like a case of materialism than anything else.
 

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Se > Ti (Benja does something stupid) "Ouch that hurt really bad! Fuck! Damn! Ow Ow Ow!" yells Benja.
Ti > Se (Benja does something stupid) "Hmm, my body has just sustained damage, I must adjust my actions accordingly," thinks Benja.
 

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Se>Ti
Salesman approaches customer and starts talking about the product in generalities. Begins adjusting pitch to fit the interest, body language, and reactions of customer.

Ti >Se
Salesman prepares presentation lining out all important features and product facts. Prepares responses to potential objections and concerns. Researches pros and cons of product. Approaches customer and begins asking questions to get am idea of where to begin sales pitch. Begins sales pitch.
 

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That sounds more like a case of materialism than anything else.
How does it?

Anyway, it's not what I speak of whatsoever.

Although chances are there may be a co-relation between what I consider materialistic and a person's embedded channeling attitude. This is likelihood speaking though, rather than extroversion being inherently hedonistic and/or materialistic.
 

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Se>Ti
Salesman approaches customer and starts talking about the product in generalities. Begins adjusting pitch to fit the interest, body language, and reactions of customer.

Ti >Se
Salesman prepares presentation lining out all important features and product facts. Prepares responses to potential objections and concerns. Researches pros and cons of product. Approaches customer and begins asking questions to get am idea of where to begin sales pitch. Begins sales pitch.
Basically this is how I operate in terms of Ti > Se when dealing with clients.
 

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I always thought that it was a case of Ti>Se meant as you noticed things you immediately withdrew slightly and started thinking about them, whereas Se>Ti as long as there was stuff to absorb you would keep focused on that and only later stop to really think on them.
 
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