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Just curious, but how many other INFJs (Other types are welcome though!) see through actions, words, etc, to see the meanings behind them? Also, who else is disturbed with how easy it is to manipulate others (For better, and for worse.)?
 

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i am better reading through written words strangely. i can see through written words fairly well. I just find it easier but i can see through things still in person. i think either my mind just digest letters easier or i don't talk to people offline much except people i am really close to maybe both. it seems the closer i am to someone the more i get clouded. i need to build my Ni i know it is weaker then it should be. it was ingrained in me the my gut isn't something i should use.
 

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I often like to study meanings even behind subtle unspoken issues and subtle interactions. It happens. I love the meanings I get from body language.
 

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Its natural for me to know what people are thinking when they say things. If I actually care, its immediately obvious to me. Manipulating people doesn't particularly bother me. I'm mostly apathetic about that, because I would never manipulate someone who I like and respect.

Izzie: Using Ni in of itself does not make you INFJ. If you are unsure, you must simply decide. You can do research for yourself, you can simply say "I'm an INFJ and that's that," or you could reach a level of acceptance with being in between, like I have.
 

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Just curious, but how many other INFJs (Other types are welcome though!) see through actions, words, etc, to see the meanings behind them? Also, who else is disturbed with how easy it is to manipulate others (For better, and for worse.)?
I am more disturbed by people who cannot see things this way
There are so many things that go on between people. There are lots of messages left unsaid. If you can't read between the lines, I think you cause a lot of pain to yourself and others

I've been through many situations where I couldn't stand up for myself because I had no solid proof of what someone is. I was completely left alone, Nobody else could see what was so obvious to me about a particular destructive person. Many times all I do in situations is leave.
There have been some people I've met who also see through things but they don't form connections to the past, they just go with the moment (and can often be wrong, they also react too quickly). It leaves out a lot of valuable information. I think you often need to let it simmer for a while...

And don't tell me about types just going by the physical/senses.. Things happen right in front of them and they still don't see. There is no underlying meaning even, everything is out in the open..but they still cannot see it. My impression is that all they go by is just what people say. Maybe another problem is again, they don't form connections.. they don't see where the behaviour could lead to, etc. It kind of makes the world feel really wild where I am, like I'm out in the jungle without any protection or guns. Out in the wild.
 

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I am more disturbed by people who cannot see things this way
There are so many things that go on between people. There are lots of messages left unsaid. If you can't read between the lines, I think you cause a lot of pain to yourself and others
I can relate to some extent.

I can understand why people can find it hard to pick up on underlying meanings. However, I also think it is important to be able to pick up on at least a number of unsaid messages and principles because they can help a person become more empathetic and more aware of solutions that might not have been thought of before.

I've been through many situations where I couldn't stand up for myself because I had no solid proof of what someone is. I was completely left alone, Nobody else could see what was so obvious to me about a particular destructive person. Many times all I do in situations is leave.
There have been some people I've met who also see through things but they don't form connections to the past, they just go with the moment (and can often be wrong, they also react too quickly). It leaves out a lot of valuable information. I think you often need to let it simmer for a while...

And don't tell me about types just going by the physical/senses.. Things happen right in front of them and they still don't see. There is no underlying meaning even, everything is out in the open..but they still cannot see it. My impression is that all they go by is just what people say. Maybe another problem is again, they don't form connections.. they don't see where the behaviour could lead to, etc. It kind of makes the world feel really wild where I am, like I'm out in the jungle without any protection or guns. Out in the wild.
It is hard for some people to find very abstract and unproven connections although they are there. ''Out in the wild.'' I understand what you mean. The world has so many deceptive aspects, that we have to dig deeper into underlying meanings in order to determine the truths.

I do know that. It can be very hard for me to explain the role of the intuition, I admit, I understand a number of people trust it but a number of others don't, which is okay.

I think it is about balancing how we're able to see connections with the best we can do for reality. As long as we're doing what's best, that's what matters. We don't have to justify how we connect, as long as the connections are relevant and valid in our lives/ observations. If that makes sense :confused:
 

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I am more disturbed by people who cannot see things this way
There are so many things that go on between people. There are lots of messages left unsaid. If you can't read between the lines, I think you cause a lot of pain to yourself and others

It kind of makes the world feel really wild where I am, like I'm out in the jungle without any protection or guns. Out in the wild.
i can relate very much to this.

i was a part of this group of friends that were meeting up regularly but they were all such different personalities.....not really drawn together for our likenesses, but our cause. anyway, there were so many extremely different opinions in the group that a lot was said about individual members behind the scenes, but never confronted within the group (i hate that stuff).

i could see that this stemmed from just completely different takes/views/perspectives and that we all just needed to be willing to engage with eachother knowing our differences. I tried so hard to get everyone to see it from the others perspective, but it was so disturbing and difficult for me that i had to leave the group. i couldn't continue to meet with them when i could see, hear and feel all the unsaid messages going on! it was really frustrating that they could not understand eachother!! We'd be sipping coffee and everyone would be smiling and talking - but i felt like it was in an unspoken storm of magnamic (i think i just made up a word :tongue:) proportions!

yep....a jungle it is!
 

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@izzie | My mother sees through certain things.. She is ISFP. I thought maybe Fi helps with it too. And I know another girl ESFP who does that (she's chaotic though).

Anyway good you mention empathy. I can't really say that I was born an empath like some people here, so it must had been something I had to develop through life experience. I think it's quite another pair of microscope/magnifying glasses... Forming more and more new connections...
Sharpening the x-ray vision :cool:
 

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I do know that. It can be very hard for me to explain the role of the intuition, I admit, I understand a number of people trust it but a number of others don't, which is okay.
I'm really not going by even gut feelings, so "Trust" is completely non-applicable for what I'm describing. I *see* it with my eyes. It's not about possibilities, about what could happen. Rather it's really just the answer. The answer to a question, to what I should do in a given moment or what It is about. The only time it is possibilities is when there is more than one correct answer.
 

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To take a slightly different line on this. One things I see a lot in business is what I call "Symptom bashing" just looking at the surface problema dn putting a quick fix in place. There is often an unwillingness or inability to see beyond the obvious and solve the underlying problem. I find I naturally look for and see the less obvious reason and solution but often encounter reluctance by others to explore these.
 

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Funny, I just wrote a poem yesterday titled "The Lines"...short stories or poems thread.

Yes, I read and see and know...(not grammatically correct for a reason; so, don't send the grammar nazis' after me. lol) And, yes it can be disturbing on one level. Yet, it is not disturbing on another level.
 

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I am more disturbed by people who cannot see things this way
There are so many things that go on between people. There are lots of messages left unsaid. If you can't read between the lines, I think you cause a lot of pain to yourself and others

I've been through many situations where I couldn't stand up for myself because I had no solid proof of what someone is. I was completely left alone, Nobody else could see what was so obvious to me about a particular destructive person. Many times all I do in situations is leave.
There have been some people I've met who also see through things but they don't form connections to the past, they just go with the moment (and can often be wrong, they also react too quickly). It leaves out a lot of valuable information. I think you often need to let it simmer for a while...

And don't tell me about types just going by the physical/senses.. Things happen right in front of them and they still don't see. There is no underlying meaning even, everything is out in the open..but they still cannot see it. My impression is that all they go by is just what people say. Maybe another problem is again, they don't form connections.. they don't see where the behaviour could lead to, etc. It kind of makes the world feel really wild where I am, like I'm out in the jungle without any protection or guns. Out in the wild.
The Wild Wild West! Run with it...don't fight a war...only fight a battle, yes, a hard one...it eventually becomes tamer in time!
 
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To take a slightly different line on this. One things I see a lot in business is what I call "Symptom bashing" just looking at the surface problema dn putting a quick fix in place. There is often an unwillingness or inability to see beyond the obvious and solve the underlying problem. I find I naturally look for and see the less obvious reason and solution but often encounter reluctance by others to explore these.
I'm the same way, but in dealing with people. When two people are having an issue, I can come up to them and tell them what they are trying to say from both perspective and then come up with a fitting compromise that both will be happy with. This is as natural as breathing for me.
 

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I confess that my Ni understandings are mine alone, and I feel like peoples' underlying feelings and motives (though I read and completely internalize them) are "off limits" to me until the other person opens the door for communication.

Case in point:
There is a DISASTROUSLY unhealthy INTJ IRL who is enamoured with me... And he has opened that door a number of times, but can't walk through it for reasons I won't share on a public forum. Well I know what goes on in his head, I know why he does what he does, and I know why he acts in a completely hostile manner to me but can't seem to make himself stop speaking to me... But he's definitely not ready to talk about it, deal with it or move past it. Consequently, my hands are tied: I can't address his issues until he wants my input. That might be never, and that's fine with me... I'll just keep silent untilhe either speaks to me about it like a mature person (at which point I get to tell him I'm madly in love with someone else!) or he eventually crosses that indelible line we all have and the stream will turn to ice in front of him. Can we say shut out?
 
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I confess that my Ni understandings are mine alone, and I feel like peoples' underlying feelings and motives (though I read and completely internalize them) are "off limits" to me until the other person opens the door for communication.

Case in point:
There is a DISASTROUSLY unhealthy INTJ IRL who is enamoured with me... And he has opened that door a number of times, but can't walk through it for reasons I won't share on a public forum. Well I know what goes on in his head, I know why he does what he does, and I know why he acts in a completely hostile manner to me but can't seem to make himself stop speaking to me... But he's definitely not ready to talk about it, deal with it or move past it. Consequently, my hands are tied: I can't address his issues until he wants my input. That might be never, and that's fine with me... I'll just keep silent untilhe either speaks to me about it like a mature person (at which point I get to tell him I'm madly in love with someone else!) or he eventually crosses that indelible line we all have and the stream will turn to ice in front of him. Can we say shut out?
I agree with this completely. You seem to have your head on straight.
 
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