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Discussion Starter #1
hey, i know there are a lot of post like this ... in a way... and i have sort of said this in response to another post but....

so, i'm an infp as you all can see, and i have a crush on an enfj. to be honest it feels kind of masochistic. i don't know why i don't just completely ignore her, i mean that would probably help out more in the long run.

i met her through a mutual friend and we started to hang out while her and her boyfriend were on a break. she flirted a lot. she bought me stuff, but would always make an excuse for it, so it seemed like it would be a bad idea to read too much into it. we would watch a movie and since she was on just a "break", and not broken up i would just sit on the far side of the couch, i didn't want to weird her out or make her uncomfortable, i wanted to give her room and she would almost sit right on top of me; it seemed like she would always try to find an excuse to be close. but she's very affectionate so i just kind of wrote it off.

then her and her boyfriend get back together and she mentions to another friend of ours that she hopes "it's not hard for me".... nothing really happened at all, but, you know i felt sort used in a way, but since nothing did happen, i just pegged it down to her feeling lonely and decided not to hold it against her.

well, we were hanging out the other night-- we were all pretty drunk, all of our friends went to bed, and we were left sitting on the kitchen floor alone. we were talking about two of our friends who just broke up (not in a bad way... and they were engaged.. not that that is even needed, but....), and she just busts out with, " ----- i really, really like you a lot. but i've just had to put up such thick lines between me and you out of respect for my relationship".... and i didn't know what to say... it was way out of nowhere... basically i was thinking "why the fuck did you just tell me that". i mean really? was there a point? so i can pine away after you while you're with someone else? oooookkkk lol.... it made me really happy in a way, cause then i knew that she wasn't just playing with me, but also, i was just sort of coming to terms with the fact that we would just be friends.

i just feel like she's settling for the person she's with now. she only admits to the fact that she isn't happy with him when she's drunk, and she doesn't really have a lot of good things to say about him other than he's nice and would never cheat on her (not to sound mean, but she really could do a lot better). ---- and then she'll make off the wall comments like , " oh, i have a friend that you would really like a lot" and ... ahhhh! i don't know. she always sends mixed signals, and they can be like just hours apart. i don't know if she is playing games, and if she is, to be honest (and i know this sounds sick), but i'd be happier, cause then i'd know she does actually like and care about me and that she is just insecure... and that's something i would love to help her with... cause really, i can't see one damn reason why she should be insecure. she's a great person.

oh, she only said that i should meet one of her friends after i told this story (prompted by another mutual girl friend of ours) about me and this girl in a hot tub... in retrospect it probably made me seem like man-skank, and her face, the enfj's (her face is normally very animated), got really slack and devoid of emotion. i wish now, after thinking about it and her reaction (damn my inability to actually think coherently in the moment, or around her at all), that i would have made it clear that i never slept with her, that she was basically forcing herself on me, that i was trying to find a nice balance between letting her know that i wasn't comfortable and not hurting her feelings (i'm pretty passive when i'm the one who's uncomfortable), that this isn't something that i just go out and do... i think from now on i'll just say everything, no matter how unnesacary (spelling?) it all seems, no matter how stupid it makes me look, and realize that not everyone sees things the way i do, and to let them know what's actually going on in my head, so there will be no doubt. most likely this will make me look like an idiot and i'll probably get hurt, but... i don't know what else to do. she's making me crazy and i don't care if she doesn't leave her boyfriend (her situation is complicated), i just want to let her know how i feel so that way, at the very least she'll know that she is desirable, and that nothing is wrong with her, and ... hopefully it will make her a more secure person, hopefully she'll be happy even if i'm not included in it..... god i sound pathetic lol.

but i also get the feeling that she is pretty self-destructive (i used to be, very heavily, so it's easy to recognize it in others), and that... it's almost like she wants to be happy but is scared of it.... like she keeps repeating patterns to remain unhappy. so sometimes i get the feeling that she wants me to like her, but doesn't want me...? and that as soon as i tell her that i do, regardless of how she feels, that if i tell her that she doesn't have to change her life in any way and that we don't even have to be together, that she'll just be "re-affirmed" in a way and not feel the need to be with me. but that's very selfish on my part so..... i won't keep her in the dark. but i will do it my way, slow-going and cautious lol.

anyhow, i just re-read this and it seems really sad, and not in the good way, so i'm going to post it before i delete it. i would looooovvvveeee some advice, but if you don't feel like reading a million page wall of text i don't blame... just feels good to get this out. take care.
 

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Unnecessary* :happy:

I'm not an ENFJ and hopefully they can help you out a lot, but I can see why you're confused. :confused:
It seems to me though that you're placing her on a pedestal and have some White-Knight thing going on. I think you need to stop focusing on her so much, she's not going to go out with you and she does sound like an unhealthy person. It sounds like she's selfishly manipulating you to keep you around and fixated on her.

This relationship sounds just like a lot of unhealthy/dark-side ENFx ones I've read about except it's a woman rather than the more common male. And if the genders were reversed no-one would hesitate to call them a jerk.

I really don't mean to cause any offence if I have, and maybe the ENFJs will disagree, this is just what it seems to me.
 

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I agree with Fallout. She doesn't sound like a healthy person. She's using you to make herself feel better, and she doesn't seem like she's gonna leave her boyfriend any time soon.

Maybe she's not sure how you feel about her and doesn't want to take the risk of ending up alone. Have you told her how you felt?

If you have real feelings for her and believe they're mutual, I think you should wait until she's ready. If she does like you she'll come around eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yeah well i do get the feeling that she does like me, but i also think she is really scared ... i can't really think right now, but i do think she does like me but isn't willing to do anything unless it's made expressly clear that there is absolute security there for her.

she'll make comments that have nothing to do with what we are talking about at the time, like the reason she really likes her boyfriend is that he leaves no doubt in her mind, that he's very upfront with how he feels at all times, and that all girls want is security.... and these comments are always off the wall.

she's also said to friends that she can never tell what i'm thinking and that it makes her uncomfortable. she doesn't like that she can't read me.

anyhow, regardless of what kind of relationship we have, i want it to be healthy, otherwise there's no point. so... i think i'll just bring everything up and talk to her about it, and if i think she's lying or being manipulative, or if she has a problem with it i'll just not have anything to do with her.

thank you all, and no i wasn't offended. :wink:
 

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Be careful though, ENFJs have a tendency to like the chase, and move on once they get what they want. I don't want you to end up getting used. If she really cared about you she wouldn't date another guy would she? It seems to me she loves the attention and is playing with your feelings.

I don't like unhealthy ENFJs. I'm so scared of becoming one.
 

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Think we ENFJ's sometimes test the loyalty or dedication of others. We are also indecisive in relationships because we don't want to hurt people's feelings. We will go back and forth on relationships for months. I once went back and forth with a relationship for 4 years I eventually said no more we are just friends forever.
 

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Think we ENFJ's sometimes test the loyalty or dedication of others. We are also indecisive in relationships because we don't want to hurt people's feelings. We will go back and forth on relationships for months. I once went back and forth with a relationship for 4 years I eventually said no more we are just friends forever.
I can second the fact that we can go back and forth on relationships, even when we KNOW they're bad.

Was dating a girl for over a year.. probably last 6 months of it was terrible. Like, seriously unhealthy, should have just quit then. I actually did "break up" with her in the middle of it, but ended up feeling guilty and got back together for way too long. Even though I knew that it was something I should get out of, I couldn't make myself do it. It was just too hard for me..

She might be in a similar situation, but I dunno. Like people have mentioned, she does sound a bit unhealthy.
 

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It seems to me she loves the attention and is playing with your feelings.

I don't like unhealthy ENFJs. I'm so scared of becoming one.
That's what it seemed to me too (and I'm scared of becoming a "dark" INFP too :unsure: ). NFs can be some of the most effective emotional manipulators there are and she really seems to have caught you. If you're sure you want to declare how you feel just be prepared to cut her out if she acts how I'd guess and tries to keep you around (possibly with saying she feels the same) but still stays with her current boyfriend. Oh and if you feel guilty AT ALL then run, dark INFPs seem to be the best at guilting others into doing what they want but an ENFJ would likely find it easy too.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
yeah, i know we can to, be manipulative that is... and according to her she thinks i am. haven't talked to her yet, just something she mentioned before. but, eh, now that i've been talking about it, she doesn't seem like a big deal anymore.
 

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yeah, i know we can to, be manipulative that is... and according to her she thinks i am. haven't talked to her yet, just something she mentioned before. but, eh, now that i've been talking about it, she doesn't seem like a big deal anymore.
the best way to clear everything up is just to talk to her and be prepared for any option, if you don't talk nothing will happen which is the same with the worse that can happen : talking and nothing happens. If you tell her you are prepared for any response, you'll get to keep her in your life no matter what she says, if that will be what you will want. But stressing yourself out will not help, only communication will.:happy:
 
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Yep, I agree with everyone else. Talk to her, and be wise. Oleas is right (about the chase and dump), so be careful of your own emotions.

The following are my perceptions only - so don't feel like you have to take my advice.

I think that "chase & dump once I get what I want" way of acting is true among the insecure/unhealthy/immature ENFJ's. I think they act that way because they don't know their own selves well enough to see their behavior and be honest about it, and themselves, and deal with others more directly and honestly. It's a maturity & self-awareness issue.

The way to work this out with an insecure ENFJ is to be strong. Once you tell them where you stand, don't be afraid to walk away from them until they show you something real, not just flirting fluffies. That will speak VOLUMES! And it will mean to them that you won't be manipulated, and that will make them take notice and respect you (and possibly really want you then, so be strong and make them be real with you). That seems to be the way with this type. I was this way in my younger years, sadly.

On a side note about the esteem deal, I think she has to come to this revelation for herself. However, it doesn't hurt to give her affirmations or tell her the truth. If you tell her she deserves much better, even if you don't end up together, I'm sure she'll remember your kind words for years to come, and they may serve as a lamppost along her way. Down the road, she will likely recall them to mind. They may be part of the guideposts that lead her to the healthy place where she sees more value in herself.

All the best!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with Fallout. She doesn't sound like a healthy person. She's using you to make herself feel better, and she doesn't seem like she's gonna leave her boyfriend any time soon.

Maybe she's not sure how you feel about her and doesn't want to take the risk of ending up alone. Have you told her how you felt?

If you have real feelings for her and believe they're mutual, I think you should wait until she's ready. If she does like you she'll come around eventually.
not that this changes my choice on how to deal with it, but i do feel like i should be fair and mention that she's been with this guy already for a year and then met me. he also has a good steady job (he's quite a bit older, and she's a few years older than me), but i'm still in school while she has a child to think about.

in any case, i'm just going to bring it up if i notice it still being a problem, follow my intuition (which i think is a good enough thing to go off of), and just not worry about it.

thank you all very much, it was good to hear all of this coming from different people, specially since everyone who answered was either my personality type or hers. :happy:
 

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ok, i didn't read all of the other comments too carefully and maybe i am the unhealthy type myself, but the way she acts, oh my god, sound so much like me once.

so, to give you an insight into a situation not unlike this and to prove that maybe others who just call her unhealthy and a probable chase&dump are wrong, i'll tell you, err, my story and my view on why she might be acting like this.

some time ago i was in a wonderful relationship with a man who had been kind of obsessed with another woman (who, coincidentally, had been the reason my previous lover dumped me) for more than five years, but i didn't really know that when we started dating. thus, it started out brilliantly, but after slightly more than a year, when that other woman had gotten out of her other relationship and was in a "dark place" as she called it herself, she started spending more and more time with him, and that, of course, affected the guy. what he told me was that he "didn't really want to spend time with anyone", was kind of depressed, avoidant, and, basically, our relationship was definitely crashing. the trouble was, i felt like i was to blame - like i was responsible, like i had done something wrong, well, anything you can imagine that comes with this. we didn't really see each other much, and when we did, he kind of just came over, ate the food i had cooked, took a bath and went to bed - there was no affection, and any healthy (hah) person would have definitely considered the relationship over. but (and i think this is definitely an enfj thing, so this might apply to your enfj girl, too) feeling responsible for this relationship made it impossible for me to let go - it was like i was single, just without all the benefits of being single - like the possibility to hook up with someone else. and then this infp guy came along. and there was definitely a spark between us, and i felt so bad about it - i wanted something to happen, like, immensely, and at the same time knew that i couldn't let anything happen - because, for me, i was still in a relationship, even if it was a non-existent one. i think this might have been similar for your enfj on her "break", the difference being, that i never really got back together with the guy who dumped me without dumping, because, as hard as it was, i understood that obviously i must be no good for him, so i went with the flow with the infp, feeling horribly guilty and extremely happy at the same time. it might have had something to do with the fact that when i had a drunken episode with the infp guy, confessing that i really, really like him, but would feel like a whore if anything happened between us, he just didn't care about that enough to keep from cuddling me and telling that i deserve better and that he really feels sorry for me, and likes me more than i could imagine.

if you really want her, don't go too far away, since in time she must understand how destructive the relationship she has is, and even though it's gonna be a tough break (i couldn't have managed to break it off if i hadn't convinced myself that basically the guy has broken up with me, just hasn't told me yet), she would most likely opt for you even now, just doesn't let herself do that, because of loyalty. especially if one of the good things she can say about her current partner is that he would never cheat on her, it might be all the more difficult for her to act in any way - because it would feel like she's cheating (it was so bad during the first month with the infp, until i saw the ex with that other woman cutely cuddling in public, which was a justification for me, since it was obvious that THEY were in a relationship, not me and him), even if she's on a break or in the process of breaking up.

but my gut tells me that she must be really eager to get out of what she's got now (you know the saying - a drunken man's words are the sober man's thoughts, so i would dismiss the probability that she's just playing with you - if she were, she wouldn't be so subtle and sincere about it, i think.), just too responsible, loyal and insecure to do that.
if you get her stats up (heh), she might work it out a bit easier. help her, and you might have something splendid beginning.
 

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ok, i didn't read all of the other comments too carefully and maybe i am the unhealthy type myself, but the way she acts, oh my god, sound so much like me once.

so, to give you an insight into a situation not unlike this and to prove that maybe others who just call her unhealthy and a probable chase&dump are wrong, i'll tell you, err, my story and my view on why she might be acting like this.

some time ago i was in a wonderful relationship with a man who had been kind of obsessed with another woman (who, coincidentally, had been the reason my previous lover dumped me) for more than five years, but i didn't really know that when we started dating. thus, it started out brilliantly, but after slightly more than a year, when that other woman had gotten out of her other relationship and was in a "dark place" as she called it herself, she started spending more and more time with him, and that, of course, affected the guy. what he told me was that he "didn't really want to spend time with anyone", was kind of depressed, avoidant, and, basically, our relationship was definitely crashing. the trouble was, i felt like i was to blame - like i was responsible, like i had done something wrong, well, anything you can imagine that comes with this. we didn't really see each other much, and when we did, he kind of just came over, ate the food i had cooked, took a bath and went to bed - there was no affection, and any healthy (hah) person would have definitely considered the relationship over. but (and i think this is definitely an enfj thing, so this might apply to your enfj girl, too) feeling responsible for this relationship made it impossible for me to let go - it was like i was single, just without all the benefits of being single - like the possibility to hook up with someone else. and then this infp guy came along. and there was definitely a spark between us, and i felt so bad about it - i wanted something to happen, like, immensely, and at the same time knew that i couldn't let anything happen - because, for me, i was still in a relationship, even if it was a non-existent one. i think this might have been similar for your enfj on her "break", the difference being, that i never really got back together with the guy who dumped me without dumping, because, as hard as it was, i understood that obviously i must be no good for him, so i went with the flow with the infp, feeling horribly guilty and extremely happy at the same time. it might have had something to do with the fact that when i had a drunken episode with the infp guy, confessing that i really, really like him, but would feel like a whore if anything happened between us, he just didn't care about that enough to keep from cuddling me and telling that i deserve better and that he really feels sorry for me, and likes me more than i could imagine.

if you really want her, don't go too far away, since in time she must understand how destructive the relationship she has is, and even though it's gonna be a tough break (i couldn't have managed to break it off if i hadn't convinced myself that basically the guy has broken up with me, just hasn't told me yet), she would most likely opt for you even now, just doesn't let herself do that, because of loyalty. especially if one of the good things she can say about her current partner is that he would never cheat on her, it might be all the more difficult for her to act in any way - because it would feel like she's cheating (it was so bad during the first month with the infp, until i saw the ex with that other woman cutely cuddling in public, which was a justification for me, since it was obvious that THEY were in a relationship, not me and him), even if she's on a break or in the process of breaking up.

but my gut tells me that she must be really eager to get out of what she's got now (you know the saying - a drunken man's words are the sober man's thoughts, so i would dismiss the probability that she's just playing with you - if she were, she wouldn't be so subtle and sincere about it, i think.), just too responsible, loyal and insecure to do that.
if you get her stats up (heh), she might work it out a bit easier. help her, and you might have something splendid beginning.
lol, it does sound pretty similar, thank you for posting it. but her relationship now isn't really destructive. i get the feeling that she is more settling; which in itself can be seen as destructive. the guy she has is really a good guy, but just wrong for her i guess. i mean he could take care of her financially, but, for instance, on their 1 year anniversary, they all watched a football game with his dad, then went to bed... i could tell it hurt her feelings. it's just things like that.

but..... right now i'm not exactly sure if i can even be in a relationship; at least not with her. i mean, since we are friends, it would kind of start out immediately serious-- there would be no natural buildup to it. if we were both willing to take things slow, to give each other enough room to leave if they wanted, and then to let them make the choice of staying (which would actually be the best way to get me to stay) then i could do that. but the more i think about it, for now at least, i think her and i should just stay friends. or.... just let things develop naturally, nothing forced, coerced, or manipulated. :p
 
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