Personality Cafe banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As it seems I am an INTP, I think I might learn most about the MBTI here.

What concerns me are clear definitions. I seek to define the dichotomies as simply as possible. I will start with S/N, as I and E are not really functions.

Let us start with Sensing, as I'm at a total loss regarding intuition. Sensing seems to refer to the senses. These are, by the way, not just five. Anyway, as a scientific mind, I wonder what other information there is. All I can think of is memory (I consider imagination to be a form of memory), but I think all memories are ultimately memories of sensations.

Please help me understand exactly what the MBTI means by "Sensing"!
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I think that the MBTI system simplifies things too much. But there probably could be some simple definitions, even if the ones used on the MBTI tests are not completely accurate. Admittedly, I'm not too sure how to define intuition and sensing without going into complex descriptions of Ne, Se, Ni, and Si. They're just descriptions of mental perception. Intuitives are more apt to see...patterns and implications I think. They perceive things in those terms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
The best way the MBTI tutor found to help us recognise the difference was to show us a painting. It looked to be a picture of 3 girls carrying bowls of fruits and flowers, walking out of the sea. We were asked what we could see in the painting.

The S's basically said what they saw - 3 near naked girls carrying fruit, maybe specifying what sort of fruit, flowers, the colour of their hair and eyes, stuff like that.

The N's (and there were only two of us there at the time) described what could be happening; a party, a celebration, maybe a wedding, and they were singing too, they had also perhaps been fishing, or were welcoming their fishermen home....

Yup. It was a pretty good basis for understanding, looking back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
The best way the MBTI tutor found to help us recognise the difference was to show us a painting. It looked to be a picture of 3 girls carrying bowls of fruits and flowers, walking out of the sea. We were asked what we could see in the painting.

The S's basically said what they saw - 3 near naked girls carrying fruit, maybe specifying what sort of fruit, flowers, the colour of their hair and eyes, stuff like that.

The N's (and there were only two of us there at the time) described what could be happening; a party, a celebration, maybe a wedding, and they were singing too, they had also perhaps been fishing, or were welcoming their fishermen home....

Yup. It was a pretty good basis for understanding, looking back.
Hm, yes, I am reminded of Bizet's Pearl Fishers. But I still want to define the differences. And I think each dichotomy must be capable of being defined on the basis of 1 basic difference, from which all the others follow.

(I also think the S/N and the T/F dichotomies may be the Perceiving and Judging forms of one basic dichotomy, though I can't be sure.)

In your example, it seems the difference is that between looking at the big picture, or context, and looking at the details, or content. I don't know if that's the basic difference I'm looking for, but I'll accept it for now.

Now as for Introversion and Extroversion, then. Is looking at a picture not always extroverted? (I, by the way, have to imagine the picture. Is this always introverted?)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Sensing is very odd... Especially Si, which seems to be very hard for people to describe. From what I've seen, Se deals more with looking at what is actually there, a more objective view of surrounding, while Si tends to be a subjective interpretation of the surroundings. Someone with Si may notice the atmosphere of a place, or how the surroundings make them or others feel. While a Se dominant may go, "Hey, there's a comfy couch!" an Si dominant may go, "The colors in here make the room feel really inviting!" Overall, sensing is what is there.

Intuition, on the other hand, is going to be about seeing beyond what is present. Ne is casting out into the external world for ideas and possibilities, jumping from one to the next in a "breadth over depth" sort of approach. Basically, it's like brainstorming. Ni is drawing the pieces inwards and creating a conclusion through intuitive leaps- the opposite movement of Ne. An Ne dominant may go, "We could decorate the room with streamers- or maybe make paper chains! It could represent the chains of work and we can break them at the end of the party! Or..." Whereas a Ni dominant make take in other people's suggestions for decorating said room and suddenly bring out an idea derived from what has been said, but without the intuitive "links" in the Ne- it seems to pop out of nowhere. ((Probably not the best example for this one, but I was trying to stick to the room thing...)) Overall, intuition is beyond what is there- what is possible.

Just to make a note on the whole E/I function thing, extroverted functions tend to deal with external information, while introverted functions tend to deal with subjective interpretations of information. (Figure I should include that since I decided to jump into the specific functions. : D )



As for E/I, this is actually the only axis that has a grounding in science- there are actually studies showing the preference of different reward pathways between the two groups. (Or something to that effect- it's been awhile since I've read anything on the subject.)

Extroversion and Introversion, at their base, is simply where a person draws energy from. Extroverts gain energy from being with people and interacting, while an introvert draws their energy from being alone and having private time. If I go out with my extroverted friend and spend time with her, as the night progresses, she remains at a constant state of energy, or becomes more energetic if we get into a good conversation. I however, start to wilt, and usually start to become more withdrawn and quiet, and perk up almost the moment I walk into my room when I get home.

Most people usually tend to link these preferences to someone's outgoingness or willingness to socialize, and while there is a correlation, since if you get tired being around people, you're not going to go out and socialize as much, it isn't strictly correct, especially as, in the right circumstances, introverts could be confused for extroverts- usually if you stumble onto something they're interested in.

Just to link this to the functions, E/I determines whether you display your primary or auxiliary function to the world. This is going past what I've read, but I think that, since introverts interact with their weaker auxiliary function, then often need time to process things with their dominant function inside their head, that would be why interacting with other people is tiring- introverts have to go back and forth between their mental perceptions and actively dealing with the outside world. Extraverts, however, are dealing with others with their dominant function with a much lesser emphasis on their mental world (Often, extraverts develop their auxiliary function later in life because they can interact without developing it greatly, while introverts must develop their auxilary dominant function to interact better), so there isn't the jumping around and they can more directly interact with the world.


And after writing that novel... XD I don't know what you know, so sorry if I've given you any superfluous information. I tend to ramble about MBTI...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
Sensing is the cognitive function that perceives the objects and places focus on their physical parameters
iNtuiting is the cognitive function that perceives the relationships between the objects, it stresses the context it is in, the meaning of the object
Both of these functions are perceiving functions. In introverted state they are turned onto world inside your mind. In extraverted state they are turned outside, towards the objects in the world out there.

The commonplace extravert definition as a person who goes out and socializes a lot with other people is mainly applicable to the F-type extraverts (ENFJs, ESFP, etc). In their minds people are given high value and relationships with other people are one of the main focuses for their extraversion. In T-type extraverts the objects of their extraversion are not necessarily other people, and as such some of them might find it difficult to fit the common definition of extraversion. For example I have known one ENTP whose extraversion was turned towards gadgets of all kinds. He was constantly upgrading his computer, reading reviews of what new gadgets came out and writing reviews himself, and was preoccupied with juggling the money in his bank account, gadgets he already owned, and gadgets he wanted to own in future. All of this drove him outside of his home quite often, as he craved this interaction with the environment outside as an extravert, but he was far from being the party animal kind of extravert. He had a small group of friends whom he respected, didn't care much for other people and disliked going to parties.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
Both of these functions are perceiving functions. In introverted state they are turned onto world inside your mind. In extraverted state they are turned outside, towards the objects in the world out there.
Interesting. The other N in my group was my boss, the ENTP. Referring back to the picture again, it sort of explains (to me at least) why I imagined them dancing, her singing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
Hey, first post here! :D
I've been trying to figure this thing out all day ... I think like the OP, I can't figure out what the what the difference is supposed to be between sensing and intuition or how to tell which you are, etc. I just know I'm not an S.

So many of the descriptions I've seen for intuition seem to suggest something about sudden flashes of inspiration that come from absolutely nowhere, or deep insightful introspective whatever whatever etc ... I dunno. Nothing I've ever experienced. :dry::crazy:

The S's basically said what they saw - 3 near naked girls carrying fruit, maybe specifying what sort of fruit, flowers, the colour of their hair and eyes, stuff like that.
The N's (and there were only two of us there at the time) described what could be happening; a party, a celebration, maybe a wedding, and they were singing too, they had also perhaps been fishing, or were welcoming their fishermen home....
But that whole thing with the picture ... If I was in a particularly bad or mischievous mood, I would say "A picture." ;) I might describe the picture if I'm not in an "inspired" mood, but most likely I would try to figure out what's going on in the picture, what's happening. But then again, it depends on what I think the person is trying to ask. Aaahhh. If I think they're trying to ask about the picture itself or something like that, I'd describe what I physically see. But if I think they are asking about what's going on in the picture, I'd answer that. Geez. I tend to guess what people are asking by others' responses, so if everybody else is going for that ... ahh, idk. I'm overanalyzing this. I'd probably just try to figure out what's "going on" in the picture. :dry:

I've also heard the difference described as big picture (N) vs. details (S). I tend to be pretty detail-oriented, but in other things it's all about the big picture ...
That seems to be typical of INTJ's though ... so I don't know.

Then *also* I've heard that N's analyze stuff. I overanalyze *everything* ... but doesn't that have to do with details? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It's like going in circles here. :angry:


Well, It's almost 4 am, and my coherency is really going downhill. Sorry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
But that whole thing with the picture ... If I was in a particularly bad or mischievous mood, I would say "A picture." ;) I might describe the picture if I'm not in an "inspired" mood, but most likely I would try to figure out what's going on in the picture, what's happening. But then again, it depends on what I think the person is trying to ask. Aaahhh. If I think they're trying to ask about the picture itself or something like that, I'd describe what I physically see. But if I think they are asking about what's going on in the picture, I'd answer that. Geez. I tend to guess what people are asking by others' responses, so if everybody else is going for that ... ahh, idk. I'm overanalyzing this. I'd probably just try to figure out what's "going on" in the picture. :dry:

I've also heard the difference described as big picture (N) vs. details (S). I tend to be pretty detail-oriented, but in other things it's all about the big picture ...
That seems to be typical of INTJ's though ... so I don't know.
The question was - "Tell me what you see." The N's immediately look for concepts, the S's for physical attributes. No answer was incorrect. Your answer "A picture" I think is actually rather N, and would have caused a laugh, but I expect the tutor had heard them all, and maybe someone, seriously, said "A picture" And it was probably an INTJ. S's see detail rather than the big picture, and are very much the kind of people who "can't see the wood for the trees". But what they do see, N's often miss.

Then *also* I've heard that N's analyze stuff. I overanalyze *everything* ... but doesn't that have to do with details? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It's like going in circles here. :angry:
If you think in terms of S's calling a spade a spade, an N will argue it's more like a trowel. An S will say it's an apple, an NT may actually describe how it came from being a seed to an apple. Such details can bore an S. All they care about is that it's an apple.

Well, It's almost 4 am, and my coherency is really going downhill. Sorry.
You're among friends here. The kings and queens of incoherent coherency.:laughing:
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarenRose

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
As it seems I am an INTP, I think I might learn most about the MBTI here.

What concerns me are clear definitions. I seek to define the dichotomies as simply as possible. I will start with S/N, as I and E are not really functions.

Let us start with Sensing, as I'm at a total loss regarding intuition. Sensing seems to refer to the senses. These are, by the way, not just five. Anyway, as a scientific mind, I wonder what other information there is. All I can think of is memory (I consider imagination to be a form of memory), but I think all memories are ultimately memories of sensations.

Please help me understand exactly what the MBTI means by "Sensing"!
Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes. --- Focus in the past

Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence. --- Focus in the present

Following post on Intuition
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Next, would be:

Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions. --- Will see it through

Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership. --- Happy with the possible

The second letter shows how a person would "gather or get their information about the world from." --- Where their focus is. Where where mind is most of the time.

An INTP uses : Introverted Thinking, Extraverted Intuition, Introverted Sensing. Then, Extraverted Feeling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hey, first post here! :D
I've been trying to figure this thing out all day ... I think like the OP, I can't figure out what the what the difference is supposed to be between sensing and intuition or how to tell which you are, etc. I just know I'm not an S.

So many of the descriptions I've seen for intuition seem to suggest something about sudden flashes of inspiration that come from absolutely nowhere, or deep insightful introspective whatever whatever etc ... I dunno. Nothing I've ever experienced. :dry::crazy:
Well, last night I---with my Introverted Thinking, I guess---pictured it as follows to an acquaintance of mine, who is quite convinced she is an INTJ, and whose dominant function is therefore Introverted Intuition. I asked if she could relate to the following metaphor of Introverted Intuition: Ni people subconsciously take in the separate pieces of data presented to them, and their unconscious then fits the pieces together as best it can, and presents it as a whole to the consciousness. So what Ni people see is not so much the separate pieces of the puzzle, but the image depicted on the jigsaw puzzle as a whole. They can then tell whether pieces are missing or out of place, though they may not be able to pinpoint the exact location of those pieces or gaps. Ironically, she said that my metaphor was not quite right, but was unable to pinpoint where exactly it was wrong...

The thing is that I don't believe in 'flashes of insight' coming from above, as in paranormal or supernatural stuff, but I do believe they may come from below (the subconscious).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Well, last night I---with my Introverted Thinking, I guess---pictured it as follows to an acquaintance of mine, who is quite convinced she is an INTJ, and whose dominant function is therefore Introverted Intuition. I asked if she could relate to the following metaphor of Introverted Intuition: dominant-Ni people subconsciously take in the separate pieces of data presented to them, and their unconscious then fits the pieces together as best it can, and presents it as a whole to the consciousness. So what dominant-Ni people see is not so much the separate pieces of the puzzle, but the image depicted on the jigsaw puzzle as a whole. They can then tell whether pieces are missing or out of place, though they may not be able to pinpoint the exact location of those pieces or gaps. Ironically, she said that my metaphor was not quite right, but was unable to pinpoint where exactly it was wrong...

The thing is that I don't believe in 'flashes of insight' coming from above, as in paranormal or supernatural stuff, but I do believe they may come from below (the subconscious).
I use Introverted Intuition and perhaps, the best way I can discribe it is in this example.

My children all have different faiths that they live by. I support it and have no issues with it because they all are looking to explain their existence and coping skills to why they are here. Each is different, yet exactly the same. I had it become a reality because now --- I have a buddhism child, a christian child and an atheist child... all living happily and respectfully together. *Nothing paranormal, just finding the common ground to build off of.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top