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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't know if this can all be pinned down to a "personality type", but, over the years I've noticed myself giving less and less of a damn about the people I've known years. I stopped caring about my family to the point that I was indifferent when my sister was in a car crash and her situation was uncertain. My main concern was that there could be drama over the situation and all that boring funeral crap if she died, but her life in itself wasn't my concern. Now, this was after years of previous bad experiences with family, to the point that I just gave up on them and realized I could never confide anything in them. Hell, I remember countless times being told I am hated and the usual stuff the oddball of a family unit goes through. My warmth for them just...flickered out.

When it comes to friendships, MOST have been superficial. Like, not the types that would let me stay with them even if I could have ended up homeless. A lot of my "friendships" consisted of people that I got drunk with or partied with, but that was all I could really expect from them. Not all have been like that if including the past year or so, just most, and especially those I went out partying with a lot around the end of my teens and start of my 20's. There was just one person from years ago when I was still very much a boy, compared to the man I am now. I was 18, she became a great friend, she was in my life nearly two years. Through a mix of unfortunate events me and her started arguing. Once when things briefly seemed normal again, she confided in me that she missed getting along with me...missed her friend. That peace didn't last, I pushed her away. I reacted to her anger with further anger and thought I hated her. I said things to her that in light of an already strained friendship, must have seemed...unforgivable. When I knew I had lost her from my life for good, I felt something inside go cold. That was over 3 three years ago now.

I remember crazy ranting at her every few months after because I was really unstable for a year or so after. Did drugs, got drunk a lot, basically went on a path of self destruction, went off the rails. It's only now that I look back as a more stable and well adjusted man, that I realize she must now hate me more than anything and feels no sentimentality for our past friendship. Yet I still care about her. Most people I'd just give up on and not give a single shit anymore, but I never stopped caring about her. No, it's not romantic affection, just, the normal kind. I care even though she hates me like most of my family hate me. Is that something other people notice about themselves? Those rare people you love selflessly no matter how cold you start to go inside?
 

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Yes.
I can relate.
There are people I love, no matter what happens.
It is called unconditional love, I guess, and yes, it's not about romantic affection.
It happens when I love a person for what she/he is. Well actually I don't really know why it happens. Sometimes it just happens. I'm not so good with emotions.
And you just care about somebody even if and even when the feeling is not (anymore) reciprocal.
 

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I don't know if this can all be pinned down to a "personality type", but, over the years I've noticed myself giving less and less of a damn about the people I've known years. I stopped caring about my family to the point that I was indifferent when my sister was in a car crash and her situation was uncertain. My main concern was that there could be drama over the situation and all that boring funeral crap if she died, but her life in itself wasn't my concern. Now, this was after years of previous bad experiences with family, to the point that I just gave up on them and realized I could never confide anything in them. Hell, I remember countless times being told I am hated and the usual stuff the oddball of a family unit goes through. My warmth for them just...flickered out.

When it comes to friendships, MOST have been superficial. Like, not the types that would let me stay with them even if I could have ended up homeless. A lot of my "friendships" consisted of people that I got drunk with or partied with, but that was all I could really expect from them. Not all have been like that if including the past year or so, just most, and especially those I went out partying with a lot around the end of my teens and start of my 20's. There was just one person from years ago when I was still very much a boy, compared to the man I am now. I was 18, she became a great friend, she was in my life nearly two years. Through a mix of unfortunate events me and her started arguing. Once when things briefly seemed normal again, she confided in me that she missed getting along with me...missed her friend. That peace didn't last, I pushed her away. I reacted to her anger with further anger and thought I hated her. I said things to her that in light of an already strained friendship, must have seemed...unforgivable. When I knew I had lost her from my life for good, I felt something inside go cold. That was over 3 three years ago now.

I remember crazy ranting at her every few months after because I was really unstable for a year or so after. Did drugs, got drunk a lot, basically went on a path of self destruction, went off the rails. It's only now that I look back as a more stable and well adjusted man, that I realize she must now hate me more than anything and feels no sentimentality for our past friendship. Yet I still care about her. Most people I'd just give up on and not give a single shit anymore, but I never stopped caring about her. No, it's not romantic affection, just, the normal kind. I care even though she hates me like most of my family hate me. Is that something other people notice about themselves? Those rare people you love selflessly no matter how cold you start to go inside?
I can relate and can probably say that you are unhealthy and could use some help. I do catch myself seething and hating on people, mostly when someone does something to bother me and I do not speak with them about it. Came to the realization that this is completely unfair, and since then I have been more open with my friends. Don't get me wrong, people piss me off but I think that is normal. It's human natural!

Feeling a lot more "full" and fulfilled now that I have kept my friends close.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@ouchies I appreciate your concern but I don't need help. My anger and seething are in the past. I'm comfortable with treating most people in a detached manner, and having a small circle of loved ones. The pharmaceutical/psychiatric industry can blow me. Neuroscience has barely touched upon what it is that makes people tick, and what is deemed wrong is merely what is wrong for society. Homosexuality was once in the DSM and a lot of the narrow minded IMBECILES that would TREAT me(CONDITION ME LIKE A GOOD LITTLE LAB RAT) revere that thing like holy scripture. I am better than any Physician and definitely any Psychologist. I respect Neuroscientists, because they actually want to know what is going on in there. A Physician and a Psychologist merely use the research of others to put people in a box, and that system is pathetic hahahahahahaha. I know you mean well but please don't recommend something like you know what is going on in my head. I am not angry but your presumption is slightly irritating and I am disappointed. I know you mean well though. Thank you.
 

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iNtp sp/sx x84
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mentally.. I'm a lot more open and understanding of my mates.


emotionally... I'm quite a bit more serious, which in turn, makes it quite a bit more reserved or selective.


they seem to have reversed the set. They're more reserved with what they actually think, and lead with what they feel instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
@Lunagattina I'll be happy if she really knows one day what she does mean to me. I don't seek her forgiveness, but I hope Vynnie(a nickname I would call her by) knows one day I did, and do, care. That I had issues but that my issues were not me, and that my affection for her is the only thing that remains the same. She's a person I will always care about without strings. Though I will keep my word and never talk to her again. Maybe I'll hint about her in an autobiography or something and hope she reads it, I don't know. How I treated her when I was as fucked up as I was is someone I hate, and I understand that she will probably always remember that, over anything positive from the past. Sometimes the dynamic between two people, is too far gone to heal. Sometimes too much has happened for it to heal.
 

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I can relate to this. My family and I are the same way but they are all drug addicts, make horrible decisions and like to treat me like a toy for their demented desires whenever I make myself available to them... so I was too proud to let myself become "just like them."

I looked down on them, and still do, for being the way they are (drug addicts, alcoholics, cheaters, racists, abusers, manipulators). Grew kinda cold for a while. Couldn't trust people and still honestly have a hard time doing just that...

Of course I never show this troubled part of me to anyone. I don't even talk to people irl about my family. I like to have control over my emotions but sometimes the suppression just builds up after a while, or when I have some downtime to think about things, and the next moment I'm fainting from crying so much. Then I move on for three months and it happens again, out of nowhere, seemingly worse than before.

But yes, there is someone I always think about, who I would never be with romantically, who I was in a troubled relationship with, who is the only person to bring me comfort when I'm having a hard time. He actively pursues me but I have completely excluded him from my life and expect to for the rest of it. That doesn't mean he's not the one I go back to in my mind when I want some calm or a sense of happiness.
 

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I can relate to this. My family and I are the same way but they are all drug addicts, make horrible decisions and like to treat me like a toy for their demented desires whenever I make myself available to them... so I was too proud to let myself become "just like them."

I looked down on them, and still do, for being the way they are (drug addicts, alcoholics, cheaters, racists, abusers, manipulators). Grew kinda cold for a while. Couldn't trust people and still honestly have a hard time doing just that...

Of course I never show this troubled part of me to anyone. I don't even talk to people irl about my family. I like to have control over my emotions but sometimes the suppression just builds up after a while, or when I have some downtime to think about things, and the next moment I'm fainting from crying so much. Then I move on for three months and it happens again, out of nowhere, seemingly worse than before.

But yes, there is someone I always think about, who I would never be with romantically, who I was in a troubled relationship with, who is the only person to bring me comfort when I'm having a hard time. He actively pursues me but I have completely excluded him from my life and expect to for the rest of it. That doesn't mean he's not the one I go back to in my mind when I want some calm or a sense of happiness.
This is so sad T_T
 

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@Lunagattina I'll be happy if she really knows one day what she does mean to me. I don't seek her forgiveness, but I hope Vynnie(a nickname I would call her by) knows one day I did, and do, care. That I had issues but that my issues were not me, and that my affection for her is the only thing that remains the same. She's a person in I will always care about without strings. Though I will keep my word and never talk to her again. Maybe I'll hint about her in an autobiography or something and hope she reads it, I don't know. How I treated her when I was as fucked up as I was is someone I hate, and I understand that she will probably always remember that, over anything positive from the past. Sometimes the dynamic between two people, is too far gone to heal. Sometimes too much has happened for it to heal.
I perfectly understand, it is the same for me too.
Even if, you know, reading what you have written, it has come in my mind this thought: "if someone would find this sentiment for me I would probably would be happy to know it." Maybe after some time, but I guess... Yes... It would make me smile with nostalgy or sweetness.
But it is so difficult when you are at this side of the barricate and I don't really know however I could find the courage to tell them what I have felt/feel for them.
So yes, I've to admit that I dream about them discover it in some indirected way one day.
Maybe it is just an intp thing. Who knows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@Lunagattina Yes definitely. I often wonder if she ever thinks about me, but a few of my rants after she asked me not to talk to her again were really unstable and contradictory to one another. I really went off the rails. Like I started fucking up more than ever in my life and...god she must think I'm such a weirdo after messaging her every few months like I did with all the stuff I wrote while that messed up in the head >< Early on though, just a few months after it years ago, she wrote on her Tumblr about people you stop thinking about then appearing again right after...so at that point before I completely destroyed it, she probably did have me on her mind at times. If only I could change the past or something.

And the person you know might understand if you decide you need to tell them someday, that depends on the situation. With Vynn/Vynnie though, I have completely obliterated any chance of redemption and I know she must think the worst of me so I'll seriously just give it a few years. If I live into old age I might try directly contacting her at that point to tell her directly, but I'm not sure how that would go. A fear of mine is her somehow dying in like a freak accident before she ever finds out about what I have been doing with my life the past few years and how I have changed as a person and how my issues at the time made me say things that I swear were not me, not who I am deep down anyway. If things with the person you mentioned are not as damaged, maybe you can let the person know someday when you are ready, only if you are ready.

I can see it being an INTP thing. The perceiving part means we love thinking up possibilities, right? For us to directly go to the person would crush the many possible worlds we created in our own minds where things could be fine between us and that person, destroying something that gives us comfort.
 

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hmm, it needed a musical segue

 

And I thought that I'd outgrow this kind of thing.
Tell me, aren't we supposed to mature or something?
I haven't found that yet, is this as grown-up as we ever get?
Maybe this is as good as it gets.
And years may go by, but I think the heart remains a child.
The mind may grow wise, but the heart just sulks and it whines and remains a child.
 

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I can see it being an INTP thing. The perceiving part means we love thinking up possibilities, right? For us to directly go to the person would crush the many possible worlds we created in our own minds where things could be fine between us and that person, destroying something that gives us comfort.
this is one of the most true sentences I've never read.
You exactly centered the point.
EXACTLY.

Maybe we just live too much in our minds and not enough in real life. I don't know.
Maybe I just should go to them or write a letter or anything but, yes, the only thought it could go wrong, or be different from what I have imagined, paralizes me.

I need to think about it.
No. Maybe I would only need a sensor friend who would force me to do it. :frustrating:
But there are things I don't share even with my best friend irl.

Actually I have to say that your words are very touching and I guess that they would touch the sensibility of Vynnie too.
What she has written on tumblr means probably that you have been very important for her and that she is not able to erase you from her life or her mind. Otherwise she would have just ignored you.
I would probably try to write a letter to her. But I don't know if I would be able to send it.
 

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I have to share a story here.. I don't know if it's as tragic as yours, @Obligatoryusername91, but it is about ******* up a potential relationship future with a girl due to an underdeveloped overload of Fe and later pondering about her now and then.


I try to keep this short..




While i was at community school there was this one girl whom I fell in love with. The first time I saw her a small flame got lit inside of me and ever since then there has been is a fireplace for her in my heart.

I know that we aren't probably compatible with each other - our values towards life were probably too different, but still I do love her. It's not a romantic, intense love anymore but just this warm radiance from the embers which used to be this love flame, which still hope only the best and happiest for this person in life.



I hadn't really ever fallen deeply in love before that. There were some crushes, some lasting longer than others, but this one was the first to give me some signals which hinted that she's also interested, and it truly empowered my emotions.


She used to glance towards me when she was walking outside and I was at a refectory inside. She used to glance towards me at bar while she was sitting at the bar counter. One time she actually came to my table to chat with me. And we would gaze at each other while dancing at the dance floor, but didn't still approach each other.



I was deeply in love. It was the "high school romance" which I haven't ever experienced before.

But my Fe was undeveloped. I didn't know what I should do.

I would be at Facebook to wait for her to show up, but even when she showed up I rarely could write a thing for her.
I wanted to ask her for a coffee but I couldn't.
I wanted to approach her at the bar events but I found it impossible.


Some of these problems I still encounter today, but they are not as frustrating and overwhelming problems anymore. I know that life continues on, no matter what happens in relationship situations.

But back then it felt that if I don't act right now, everything will be lost - I won't ever find someone like her again.

So I did the desperate thing and vomited my feelings to an incredibly long Facebook message for her.

Even if she had been interested up to that point, she really wasn't after that.. She went to a defensive position. "The looks and gazes, they meant nothing... I look at people all the time..."

And I was like, "Oh.. Okay.."

And instead of waiting for things to cool down and then trying again, I extinguished my Fe flame towards her with force ("She's not interested, she's not interested..") and also removed her from Facebook friends.

I didn't want to feel anything towards her anymore. I wanted to forget her, to continue on in my life.




But when I deeply love someone it isn't done like that.. As I mentioned, I want the best for this person, no matter what. This "best" in life doesn't necessarily have anything to do with me, but I still want to be there to see this "best" turning to reality in her life.

So a couple of years later I started seeing simple dreams about her and realized that I want to know how her life is doing. Has she found the man of her life? Did she make it to the the study place which she wanted?

So I asked once again to be her FB friend. And she agreed.

Now I message her maybe once per year, just to hear how she's doing. And she always answers gladly and asks the same questions for me.

She's in a committed relationship and has found a proper job of which I'm really happy for her.



Also, the strange thing happened a year or two ago - this was before I knew she was in a relationship but had again asked to be her FB friend.

A random bloke asked to be my FB friend, a bloke which was also a friend of this girl.

I asked him via a message why he wants to be my FB friend. He didn't response so I rejected the offer.


I learned later that he was her to-become boyfriend.

This raised many questions in me.. If he was her boyfriend, why did he want to access the information regarding me? Why did he want to know more about me?

I came to the conclusion that he and the girl must have had a conversation about me. Of what nature - good or "He was a strange guy, go and ask to be his FB friend and you'll see.." - I don't know.


Yeah.. That's my story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@Lunagattina When I have a lot more in my life sorted out, I will make contact and let her know everything. I've decided that. If it helps, considering the many worlds interpretation, even if you don't make amends with the person you mentioned, another you will. Heads or tails, could be anything, until you observe the result. Being in your own head isn't all that bad. We perceive reality in our own heads, all of us, our own unique universe. To know your mental landscape, is to get closer to the meaning of reality.

I have a feeling she will never forgive me, it's only important she knows, and I accept her with open arms, no matter what she thinks. She will always be one of my favourite people, in all of existence. Maybe one day, you can do the same. It might be more important to focus on yourself first. Other people come later.
 

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I have to share a story here.. I don't know if it's as tragic as yours, @Obligatoryusername91, but it is about ******* a potential relationship future with a girl due to an underdeveloped overload of Fe and later pondering about her now and then.


I try to keep this short..




While i was at community school there was this one girl whom I fell in love with. The first time I saw her a small flame got lit inside of me and ever since then there has been is a fireplace for her in my heart.

I know that we aren't probably compatible with each other - our values towards life were probably too different, but still I do love her. It's not a romantic, intense love anymore but just this warm radiance from the embers which used to be this love flame, which still hope only the best and happiest for this person in life.



I hadn't really ever fallen deeply in love before that. There were some crushes, some lasting longer than others, but this one was the first to give me some signals which hinted that she's also interested, and it truly empowered my emotions.


She used to glance towards me when she was walking outside and I was at a refectory inside. She used to glance towards me at bar while she was sitting at the bar counter. One time she actually came to my table to chat with me. And we would gaze at each other while dancing at the dance floor, but didn't still approach each other.



I was deeply in love. It was the "high school romance" which I haven't ever experienced before.

But my Fe was undeveloped. I didn't know what I should do.

I would be at Facebook to wait for her to show up, but even when she showed up I rarely could write a thing for her.
I wanted to ask her for a coffee but I couldn't.
I wanted to approach her at the bar events but I found it impossible.


Some of these problems I still encounter today, but they are not as frustrating and overwhelming problems anymore. I know that life continues on, no matter what happens in relationship situations.

But back then it felt that if I don't act right now, everything will be lost - I won't ever find someone like her again.

So I did the desperate thing and vomited my feelings to an incredibly long Facebook message for her.

Even if she had been interested up to that point, she really wasn't after that.. She went to a defensive position. "The looks and gazes, they meant nothing... I look at people all the time..."

And I was like, "Oh.. Okay.."

And instead of waiting for things to cool down and then trying again, I extinguished my Fe flame towards her with force ("She's not interested, she's not interested..") and also removed her from Facebook friends.

I didn't want to feel anything towards her anymore. I wanted to forget her, to continue on in my life.




But when I deeply love someone it isn't done like that.. As I mentioned, I want the best for this person, no matter what. This "best" in life doesn't necessarily have anything to do with me, but I still want to be there to see this "best" turning to reality in her life.

So a couple of years later I started seeing simple dreams about her and realized that I want to know how her life is doing. Has she found the man of her life? Did she make it to the the study place which she wanted?

So I asked once again to be her FB friend. And she agreed.

Now I message her maybe once per year, just to hear how she's doing. And she always answers gladly and asks the same questions for me.

She's in a committed relationship and has found a proper job of which I'm really happy for her.



Also, the strange thing happened a year or two ago - this was before I knew she was in a relationship but had again asked to be her FB friend.

A random bloke asked to be my FB friend, a bloke which was also a friend of this girl.

I asked him via a message why he wants to be my FB friend. He didn't response so I rejected the offer.


I learned later that he was her to-become boyfriend.

This raised many questions in me.. If he was her boyfriend, why did he want to access the information regarding me? Why did he want to know more about me?

I came to the conclusion that he and the girl must have had a conversation about me. Of what nature - good or "He was a strange guy, go and ask to be his FB friend and you'll see.." - I don't know.


Yeah.. That's my story.
Wow! This hit so many chords with me.

I was at university doing a postgraduate degree, and there was this girl in my classes that I became quite good friends with, who I ended up developing feelings for. She was beautiful, but not in a stereotypical kind of way; kind of in a quirky kind of way. She was smart, funny, charming, and I fell hard. It was like nothing I had ever felt before.

Similarly, my Fe was poorly developed and I think that I might have also been depressed, being stuck in a relationship that had been stagnant for a couple of years but for which I hadn't yet worked out an exit strategy. So anyway, I would hang out with this girl and we'd chat about all sorts of things, and I would look for any signs that she might be feeling the same way, and I think that there were some but I wasn't really any good at dealing with such things, so I just quietly longed for her and we went about our days without saying anything about the dreaded 'feelings'.

Eventually, we were out one night drinking and we shared a cab back to our respective places and I asked the cabbie to drop her off first. When we got to her place, I got out and we had a chat and I blurted out that I loved her and that I thought that she was the most amazing person in the world. She said that she was in a tough place with a relationship too and her partner, who she'd been growing apart from, thought that she was cheating on him and she couldn't say or do anything at this point. I was stricken. I left her place and walked home crying in the rain at 3am.

I pretty much started to cut her out from then on. She hadn't returned my feelings - the feelings that I had taken months of angst to work up to expressing, albeit badly, and I couldn't cope. I pretty much excised the feelings from my mind and moved on as if nothing had happened. I barely saw her any more.

And then I did. I ended up working in the same school as her and the same feelings arose, which annoyed me because I had recently gotten married and so had she. I cut those feelings out again, turned them right off, and then I became her friend again. I am still in touch with her, albeit by Facebook mostly, and I think I still love her but in a detached sort of way. I am overjoyed with her successes and she has a nice husband who looks after her and a couple of cute kids. I am also Facebook friends with her husband, so I wonder if there was a conversation along the same lines as you mentioned.

That is my story.

There are other instances in which I have cut out feelings too - they seem to cause nothing but trouble, and hence I tend to avoid them altogether, at least anything that might lead to exceptional strong ones (negative or positive). This has resulted in me having a sort of ambivalent relationship towards my family too.
 

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Wow! This hit so many chords with me.

I was at university doing a postgraduate degree, and there was this girl in my classes that I became quite good friends with, who I ended up developing feelings for. She was beautiful, but not in a stereotypical kind of way; kind of in a quirky kind of way. She was smart, funny, charming, and I fell hard. It was like nothing I had ever felt before.

Similarly, my Fe was poorly developed and I think that I might have also been depressed, being stuck in a relationship that had been stagnant for a couple of years but for which I hadn't yet worked out an exit strategy. So anyway, I would hang out with this girl and we'd chat about all sorts of things, and I would look for any signs that she might be feeling the same way, and I think that there were some but I wasn't really any good at dealing with such things, so I just quietly longed for her and we went about our days without saying anything about the dreaded 'feelings'.

Eventually, we were out one night drinking and we shared a cab back to our respective places and I asked the cabbie to drop her off first. When we got to her place, I got out and we had a chat and I blurted out that I loved her and that I thought that she was the most amazing person in the world. She said that she was in a tough place with a relationship too and her partner, who she'd been growing apart from, thought that she was cheating on him and she couldn't say or do anything at this point. I was stricken. I left her place and walked home crying in the rain at 3am.

I pretty much started to cut her out from then on. She hadn't returned my feelings - the feelings that I had taken months of angst to work up to expressing, albeit badly, and I couldn't cope. I pretty much excised the feelings from my mind and moved on as if nothing had happened. I barely saw her any more.

And then I did. I ended up working in the same school as her and the same feelings arose, which annoyed me because I had recently gotten married and so had she. I cut those feelings out again, turned them right off, and then I became her friend again. I am still in touch with her, albeit by Facebook mostly, and I think I still love her but in a detached sort of way. I am overjoyed with her successes and she has a nice husband who looks after her and a couple of cute kids. I am also Facebook friends with her husband, so I wonder if there was a conversation along the same lines as you mentioned.

That is my story.

There are other instances in which I have cut out feelings too - they seem to cause nothing but trouble, and hence I tend to avoid them altogether, at least anything that might lead to exceptional strong ones (negative or positive). This has resulted in me having a sort of ambivalent relationship towards my family too.

Thank you for sharing your story, @thompidoo.

Your story really does sound very similar to that of mine. Follows almost a traditional arc of drama, with peak tension, separation and eventually coming back together in a compromise-kind of a way, with sort-of a happy ending. It even has the "walking under the rain"-scene..

These kind of events which we both have gone through are partly why I kind of fear of creating deeper emotions of love towards someone.. Especially when I can't know for sure if the feelings are reciprocated..

I am more mature now than what I was back then, my Fe more developed (I at least think so), but the fear is still lingering in the dark.

But since I survived through this event of mine, and I've faced rejections after that which I've taken more maturely, I have become more enduring and "thick skinned" in a good way. And also more confident when it comes to women in general.
 

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I know it goes somewhat against our nature, but I think simplicity is very important in the matter of love for INTPs. Our childlike and naive approach to emotions almost demands it. Love is the only realm I try not to overthink in because I can easily see the potential for stories like the ones above. Love is where we need our lightheartedness and humor most of all.
 
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