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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure you've heard people preface their suggestions/announcements/questions with these things when they know damn well they're right and/or the question is not stupid:

"Oh, I'm probably wrong, but blah blah blah"
"Sorry, I know this is a stupid question but blah blah blah?"
"You're probably right, but blah blah blah."
"Oh, I'm not that smart"
"Oh my GAWD I'm so0o0o retarded."
"Oh I'm nothing special really."
"I'm probably going to screw up or fail." ( <--- If the person KNOWS they won't.)

Do you ENTJs ever do that just to appear proper to society and not seem arrogant? Do you find that doing this would HELP you or HURT you in your professional/social life? What do you think of people that habitually make these types of comments?

As an ENTP, I see right through them. But I also know that I HAVE to use them to not make everyone hate me. And unless they're close friends of mine, I won't call them out on it. I just play along.
 

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I speak carefully, I never say those phrases. Being wrong once, or making a dumb decision, is nothing to call out at all, its an anomaly, and should be disregarded as such.
 

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I kind of say those things but not to that extent.... I don't say I'm stupid or anything like that..... though I do think these things from time to time I usually don't let people know I feel that way unless I trust them and decide to reveal some of my insecurities. But yea. Yea and forget about society. Cause.... I'd like that to happen xD
 

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Ohh. I do that sometimes, but it's more of a safety net than anything. I'm rarely 100% sure of myself, so saying that "I might be wrong" kind of allows me be right even when I'm wrong.
 

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To not appear arrogant I might start off by saying:

- Please help me understand this

- Can you give me some feedback on this

- Could this be an error (Whenever I say this, I usually know for a fact that there is an error. Then I just give my supporting evidence until they agree.)

Or I might start off with a joke like "I know my constant questions tickle you to death, so I'll ask one more."



In terms of how it will affect your career, it depends on the people running the organization. I wouldn't imagine the self deprecater would do well in a leadership position though.
 

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Self-deprecation? No. But when I do feel the need for more information I ask intriguing and challenging questions to arouse the interest of the rest of the people around me. As far as prefacing a question I will say something like "If blah blah blah is like this, can't blah blah blah be possible?" I will ask questions for further clarification. But why would I want to say negative things about myself?

Scenario 1

Person A: You're smart!
You: I'm not that smart. (denying to show that the compliment is too modest)

Scenario 2


Person B: You're smart!
You: Yes, I know. (acknowledging their compliment and acknowledging you know you're smart)

But really? ENTJ stereotype as wrong? When is an ENTJ wrong? ENTJ is always right :crazy:. I'm sure people can feel our energy because we are so sure of ourselves that it may intimidate people. But that generally is not our intention to intimidate people and we may do it without knowing that we are intimidating people. Sometimes I do intentionally challenge people by asking a person "are you sure about that?" because I can see that they are not confident in their answer. Then usually they begin to start to doubt theirself (yes, I know I sound mean when I do this). But when the answer is sketchy and presented in an unconfident manner then I start to question the validity of it.
 

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To not appear arrogant I might start off by saying:

- Please help me understand this

- Can you give me some feedback on this

- Could this be an error (Whenever I say this, I usually know for a fact that there is an error. Then I just give my supporting evidence until they agree.)

Or I might start off with a joke like "I know my constant questions tickle you to death, so I'll ask one more."



In terms of how it will affect your career, it depends on the people running the organization. I wouldn't imagine the self deprecater would do well in a leadership position though.

+1

"correct me if I am wrong"

option 1 : Im wrong so they correct...

"learn something new every day"


option 2: im not wrong...


Also, I dont believe questions are stupid unless the are redundant so its never unintelligent to ask one. and questions can be asked with confidence; its merely opening the floor to new ideas and information that you can then use to your advantage.


Sometimes, its better to just keep my mouth shut.

"you can be silent and let people think you are a fool, or you can open your mouth and prove them right."

-not sure who said it first.
 

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I think saying those things is like tempting fate/ inviting a jinx... I make a habit not to self deprecate. *ew face

Anyway, it's maybe my 3 talking, but I try not to create bad publicity; someone might believe it if you say something often enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Your ways of wording things make much more sense. However, disgruntled people have called me out for using them, such as "Correct me if I'm wrong." If I'm NOT wrong, they just get even more pissed off.

But since I've always witnessed people casually putting themselves down all the time, it rubbed off on me. :confused: It's like you're SUPPOSED to do it, especially if you're female and in the company of other females.

So the choice is difficult:

1. Self-deprecate.

Pro: Your company will not be put off by your arrogance nor will they feel threatened. This minimizes the chances of them becoming your saboteurs one day. This results in fewer downfalls.

Con: People will begin to see you as less capable, as you are continuously conditioning them to believe that. This can result in fewer opportunities.


2. Maintain confidence, Speak politely but with conviction.

Pros and Cons are direct opposites of those listed for Option 1.


False modesty is an inane concept to me. If you're polite and give others a chance for their ideas to be considered, it shouldn't be considered arrogant for you to speak your suggestions/plans with confidence. Do you guys ever get called out for not seeming humble?
 

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Most people who say those things either a) don't even listen to themselves speak and will pick up any common turn of phrase, or b) are truly uncomfortable with themselves and are trying to make light of it (in a really awkward and transparent way to an intuitive). But I could see ENTJ's using some of that technique in more of a manipulative and well-calculated sense. They're more delicate with delivery than us ENTP's, God.

Person: "(Idiotic, brainless statement)!"

ENTJ: "Oh? Well, perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's actually like this...."

vs.

ENTP: "WTF? Do you know anything about anything at all?? Blablablah explainations pwnage etc."


Both will flawlessly shoot the other person's theory down, but the ENTJ often knows how to avoid antagonizing himself in the process. Whereas the ENTP doesn't care.
 

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I'm sure you've heard people preface their suggestions/announcements/questions with these things when they know damn well they're right and/or the question is not stupid:

"Oh, I'm probably wrong, but blah blah blah"
"Sorry, I know this is a stupid question but blah blah blah?"
"You're probably right, but blah blah blah."
"Oh, I'm not that smart"
"Oh my GAWD I'm so0o0o retarded."
"Oh I'm nothing special really."
"I'm probably going to screw up or fail." ( <--- If the person KNOWS they won't.)

Do you ENTJs ever do that just to appear proper to society and not seem arrogant? Do you find that doing this would HELP you or HURT you in your professional/social life? What do you think of people that habitually make these types of comments?

As an ENTP, I see right through them. But I also know that I HAVE to use them to not make everyone hate me. And unless they're close friends of mine, I won't call them out on it. I just play along.
False
I don't do this, and people like me just fine.
 

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^But he was talking about himself?

I do it all the time... as an INTJ. It doesn't seem to work often though. They usually know something about me pre-emptively though...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
False
I don't do this, and people like me just fine.
Who's letting in all these ENTPs? :tongue: j/k

I said ENTPs would be more likely to KNOW if someone's self-deprecating for appearances. Whether they do it themselves would probably depend on the people they're around.

My circle of friends are just like the chicks on The Hills. Spray tans, True Religion and girlish Fe required.

At work, I used to NOT self-deprecate, until I realized that my INFJ boss (who's the CEO) and EVERYONE else engaged in way too much self-deprecation (to the point where it took FOREVER to get anything done).

And then my co-worker told me that I was "not submissive enough in my demeanor". So I had to start self-deprecating again.

To those that DO NOT self-deprecate (with no consequences), how would you describe your surroundings? Do you have a lot of Feelers around you?
 

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Yes, I will do it sometimes. Mostly when I know the person I'm dealing with is kinda, sensitive to any conflict or criticism. Even if they are wrong they will sometimes lash out even though I am completely justified. Seeing how that would only derail what we are trying to accomplish, I will be more subtle. However, not all people are like this so it really depends on how I think someone will react.

Also, sometimes if I know they will throw a fit, I won't beat around the bush, just because it can be fun to see them freak out. And fun to put them in their place.
 

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Who's letting in all these ENTPs? :tongue: j/k

I said ENTPs would be more likely to KNOW if someone's self-deprecating for appearances. Whether they do it themselves would probably depend on the people they're around.
My circle of friends are just like the chicks on The Hills. Spray tans, True Religion and girlish Fe required.

At work, I used to NOT self-deprecate, until I realized that my INFJ boss (who's the CEO) and EVERYONE else engaged in way too much self-deprecation (to the point where it took FOREVER to get anything done).

And then my co-worker told me that I was "not submissive enough in my demeanor". So I had to start self-deprecating again.

To those that DO NOT self-deprecate (with no consequences), how would you describe your surroundings? Do you have a lot of Feelers around you?
There is a diffence between being submissive and knowing your place.
I don't do it because I see no net benefit in doing so, and my thoughts deserve better.

I'm generally agreeable and good humored. People tend to like that. :wink:
 

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I'm right until someone proves me wrong.

I don't say much beforehand, people who blab say things like "I could be wrong but..." like if I see a teacher make a mistake I'll say "Is it not blah blah blah?" and they'll correct me/correct themselves.
 

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I don't self-deprecate. I will admit when I'm wrong and I'll explain why I did what I did, but I will never exaggerate the situation to make it seem like a personal flaw was to blame.

At most, I will recognize that there is a disagreement if I see the opponent's stance as valid. For example, "I understand where you are coming from and I partially agree, but...."
 

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I never, as a rule, play the fool.

That doesn't mean I won't graciously lure them with flattery til I git' something I can get this pry bar under.
 
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