Personality Cafe banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The Self-Preservation Nine - "Appetite"

The combination of the passion of laziness and the dominant instinct for self-preservation in Nines results in a personality subtype that Naranjo, following Ichazo, calls “Appetite.” The deeper motivation of this subtype of Type Nine is finding a sense of comfort in the world through the satisfaction of physical needs. This personality finds satisfaction in activities such as eating, reading, playing games, watching television, sleeping, or even working (if work is a comfortable thing to do).

Whichever form of activity is chosen by a given Self-Preservation Nine, the key is that this Nine expresses his or her need to find protection and well-being by merging with an experience of the satisfaction of concrete needs. In giving their attention over to a favored activity in this way, these Nines simultaneously avoid or “forget” their own being-or the pain of not being connected to their own being-and find a substitute sense of “being” in the comfort of the fulfillment of routine, everyday appetites.

For Self-Preservation Nines, it feels safer to take refuge in physical comfort, or in a routine that structures their experience in concrete and familiar ways, than to have to show up in the world and risk potential conflict or overstimulation. It’s easier to erase yourself by losing yourself in comfortable activities than to reveal yourself or open yourself up to whatever unpredictable or complex thing might be happening in the outside world.

The name “Appetite” doesn’t refer just to eating, but also to the need to find a sense of well-being through the fulfillment of various physical needs-for food, for comfort, for restfulness, or for something interesting to pay attention to that provides a sense of support or structure or peace. Appetite also refers to concreteness, to the grounding aspect of fulfilling physical and material needs in simple, straightforward, tangible, and enjoyable ways. One Self-Preservation Nine I know focuses her self-care efforts on physical fitness and dieting in specific, routine ways. She belongs to a gym where she exercises with a close-knit community of people who all participate in regular early-morning workouts and support each other by going on periodic diets together based on the clearly articulated structure of a practical nutritional methodology.

Self-Preservation Nines are concrete people, oriented to immediate experience, who don’t relate much to abstractions or metaphysical concepts. With these Nines there is less “psychological mindedness” and introspection and more focus on tangible and immediate “things to do.” They find experience much easier to deal with than theory. They don’t always put their experience into words, however-they don’t talk a lot about what is going on inside them in general.

Naranjo describes the meaning behind “Appetite” as a kind of excessive “creature-likeness,” characterized by an “I eat therefore I am” or an “I sleep therefore I am” attitude that erases the question of “being” in a larger sense. For these Nines, the ordinary facts of life get in the way of thinking about abstract things, like what might be lacking in their experience. These are people who live life in a more simple, direct way.

More than the other two Type Nine subtypes, these Nines tend to want more time alone. Like the other Nines, Self-Preservation Nines habitually focus their attention on other people and on their environment, but Self-Preservation Nines can actually find it more relaxing and grounding to be by themselves, as it allows them to more fully relax into whatever activity they are engaged with. These individuals also tend to have a distinctive sense of humor characterized by a wry and self-deprecating attitude.

Nines are very loving people, but deep down they usually don’t have the sense of being loved-it’s as if they have resigned themselves to not actively receiving love for themselves. For the Self-Preservation Nine, the search for comfort in pleasurable activities may reflect a desire for compensation for their deeper sense of abnegation, or a giving up of the need for love, with the fulfillment of other appetites. The jolliness or fun-loving spirit of this type of Nine, though it is a very real, very endearing characteristic of this personality may be another kind of compensation for an early lack-they substitute fun for love.

Self-Preservation Nines tend to be active and intuitive, and they express a kind of subtle strength. This is the most “Eight-ish” of the three Nine subtypes. Their sense of inertia with regard to taking action places them firmly in the Nine type, so they are unlikely to be mistaken for Eights, but they do have forceful energy, especially in contrast to the Sexual Nine, which is a much less assertive character. Self-Preservation Nines have a stronger presence that the other two Nine subtype personalities, and they can be more irritable and stubborn. It can be very difficult for them to accept that another person is right. This subtype also lives a life of excess more than the other Nines, and while they don’t get angry very often, they can express the “fury of a peacemaker” when they get mad at people who cause problems.



Daniel, a Self-Preservation Nine, speaks:

Growing up in the Midwest, people often said that I was “a good eater.” I think they meant it as a compliment. But it was true that eating was always a source of pleasure for me. It has also been something that I’ve indulged in when under a lot of stress. I managed a political campaign when I was in my early twenties and gained twenty-five pounds in a few short months. Today I recognize my relationship to food is a compensation for a lack of feeling loved, and I’m learning how to give that love to myself rather than just eating.

I love sleep, but sometimes it’s more of an escape than a physiological need. A Nine friend of mine was telling me about an argument he got into. He said he was so mad he needed to go take a nap. I could totally relate. Routines are comforting, too. For many years I followed the same routine whenever I’d turn on my computer: first check e-mail, then go to a series of five different websites, all in the same order each time, multiple times per day. Often, I’d have many more important things to do, but I needed the comfort fix provided by visiting familiar websites before I could begin working.

Being alone feels relaxing because merging into eating or sleeping or watching TV doesn’t take much effort. But I’ve learned that just staying comfortable doesn’t help me with the important task of regaining autonomy and a sense of myself. For that I need to settle in to the harmony of my own being, which takes a lot of work because I have unresolved internal conflicts and my own position isn’t immediately clear to me.

Some people have asked me if I might actually be a Type Eight because I seem more embodied than other Nines and I have learned over time to be more assertive. I take that as a compliment! I’ve intentionally used my Eight wing to support my personal development by practicing expressing myself, experiencing my anger, and taking action.



Specific Work For The Self-Preservation Nine on the Path from Vice to Virtue

Self-Preservation Nines can travel the path from laziness to right action by making conscious contact with their anger more often and being more proactive in thinking through, tapping into, and acting from their own self-interest. Feeling and working with your anger instead of avoiding it can help you connect more thoroughly with your passion and your power; and if you have more awareness of your anger you can connect to an inner sense of strength and fortitude that will help you work to get what you want instead of giving up on it and losing yourself. If you can go for what you want in more direct ways, you can fulfill your deeper desires and bolster your inner sense of being instead of distracting yourself from its absence. Being more directly in touch with your power and passion also allows you to open up more to being loved and having the kind of connections that nurture you instead of the pseudo-connections you normally satisfy yourself with because your “acorn-self” thinks they’re all you can get. Instead of the empty calories of your comfortable activities and your enmeshed relationships, allow yourself to feed your appetite for love and presence by accessing your emotions, taking in real love, and making more conscious connections.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Nines are very loving people, but deep down they usually don’t have the sense of being loved-it’s as if they have resigned themselves to not actively receiving love for themselves.

This describes me to an absolute T. I wasn't sure if I was So or Sp but after reading this I'm absolutely Sp. Believing that I am loved or can be loved is my struggle. I accepted for two decades that I would never be loved and really only now am starting to consider that it's possible.
 

·
MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
Joined
·
7,167 Posts
Nines are very loving people, but deep down they usually don’t have the sense of being loved-it’s as if they have resigned themselves to not actively receiving love for themselves.

This describes me to an absolute T. I wasn't sure if I was So or Sp but after reading this I'm absolutely Sp. Believing that I am loved or can be loved is my struggle. I accepted for two decades that I would never be loved and really only now am starting to consider that it's possible.
I don't think this quote would be applicable to only sp 9s. Have you been able to read her description of so 9s?
 

·
Registered
ISFJ 6w7 sp/so
Joined
·
27,953 Posts
I love eating and food, I get a whole bunch of cravings throughout the day.
Is that what it looks like when you're an Sp 9?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Nines are very loving people, but deep down they usually don’t have the sense of being loved-it’s as if they have resigned themselves to not actively receiving love for themselves
Statements like this are partly why I flip-flop between sp 9 and sp 4 in finding which type I identify as
 
Joined
·
9,999 Posts
I've never been able to relate to Beatrice Chestnut's descriptions, and this one is no exception.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
Statements like this are partly why I flip-flop between sp 9 and sp 4 in finding which type I identify as
Holy Love or Divine Love is the holy idea that's missing in type 9's life. Ego fixation is the "deluded" egoic view of reality. The delusion of separateness from the whole represents the loss of the holy idea. Holy idea is the antidote to the ego fixation (i.e. non-duality).

Hope I'm not confusing you. If Holy Love resonates with you, you may want to explore this type.

Ego fixation or ego delusion https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/enneagram-specific-delusions

Holy idea https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/enneagram-holy-ideas

Hope that helps

Edit: I realize Ichazo's ego types and specifically holy ideas can be vague or hard to grasp at first. So to put this into perspective, I found explanations and examples of type 5's Holy Omniscience from a 5 and a 7, Elizabeth Wagele and Lynette Sheppard (both of whom are enneagram authors apparently). Everyday Enneagram Blog: Experiencing the Holy Ideas: A Five Looks at Omniscience
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Nines are very loving people, but deep down they usually don’t have the sense of being loved-it’s as if they have resigned themselves to not actively receiving love for themselves
Statements like this are partly why I flip-flop between sp 9 and sp 4 in finding which type I identify as
I can understand why you cannot decide between the two. I had a friend mistaken for a hypothetic nine for many months. She's a very not flamboyant four I realise now. I expected more drama maybe. In hindsight I cannot understand my mistake.

I've recently written about what I realised are very different experiences with my nine and my four friends who were all supporting me when I went through a very difficult time:

I actually got a much better understanding of the four over the weekend because when writing and reading about it I realized that I have a friend who is a four who I always thought to be a nine in a bad shape and therefore showing more of a sixish reactivity and belligerent stance.

I looked my mistake up in the Essential Enneagram by David Daniels and Virginia Price because you can find there a very to the point discrimination of all the types with each other:

It says: "Romantics and Mediators can be considerd to be look-alike-types because they are both relationship-oriented, caring and empathic. Both can get lost or absorbed in their circumstances, feel deficient, become self-deprecating, and lose their impetus for action. They differ in that Mediators are oriented toward others and like to blend in and keep life steady in order to feel comfortable and avoid conflict. Romantics, by contrast, are oriented toward themselves, are attached to being special or extraordinary, and readily go to extremes or depths of emotions in order to feel vital or alive." (64)

I also instantly realise how different this results in their respective styles as listeners. Because they're both good listeners. Fours are really not afraid to follow you emotionally when you explain why you were hurt very much in a situation. They know how to accompany you there and intuitively tell you supporting and comforting things. This pseudo-nine friend, the four, she helped me so much when about a year ago I had in a very short time very difficult situations to manage at work, and with a bad therapist. She really helped me to feel. An area where it is very difficult to get on my own because I'd wish so hard I could all resolve it in my 5-head. She came as a very fine support just in a time when I began to try to get into my anger to finally learn to process pain despite all the shame and anxiety I had around it, and still have of course. But I'm doing so well.

With the nines it's totally different. They're no great help in processing anything. They're no natural born processors themselves. Just like fives. But they're still so lovely and worthy friends to have. They can support you at a different stage. They see what is beautiful and likeable about you. That's a very welcome thing for depressed fives. I had to learn to realise myself in meeting them because they're not able to help you stop talking relentlessly when you're actually in need to find your way through to emotional release, go a level deeper into what is driving your talking, the place where the pain can be found and held and felt. It's interesting that it is said that they are the paradigm of the good counselor in some schools of therapeutic work. David Fauvre says that at one point in the big teacher's meeting they did on Youtube.
I'd be happy if it were useful to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Not feeling "dramatic" enough is precisely one of the reasons why I've doubted 4!

I've been told that I seem easy-going and playful, which I am, I supppose. Just easy-going and playful with an undercurrent of intensity and not being afraid of inner depth in all its lights and darks, hills and valleys. Somber things can be fascinating and moving, which is perhaps why I've related to poets like Plath and Sexton from a young age. But most people don't see that intensity, as it's reserved for my poetry, thoughts in the middle of the night and long conversations with close friends

They differ in that Mediators are oriented toward others and like to blend in and keep life steady in order to feel comfortable and avoid conflict. Romantics, by contrast, are oriented toward themselves, are attached to being special or extraordinary, and readily go to extremes or depths of emotions in order to feel vital or alive
Ah. Blending in for the sake of comfort and steadiness is something that I don't think that I could do; it would feel stifling and almost depressing or maybe disappointing, like something was missing. It reminds me of a friend who identifies as a 9w1. She is very sweet, smart and thoughtful but tells me that she avoids painful things and emotional depth. She sweeps these things under the rug, she says. I thought that perhaps we were different sorts of 9s because in this way we are different

I am rather self-oriented; I can't deny that. It frustrates me, sometimes, when others sacrifice too much and forget themselves and their own wants and dreams. Some friends have told me that I am easy to confide in. Not so much because I give good advice - I don't, really, I don't think - but because I don't shy away from, hm, sad things and things that are difficult to talk about. To me, these are natural things that make us who we are. We can be sad and we can be happy

Thank you for this, it was very insightful! I rambled a bit more than I intended while trying to unravel my thoughts. It's wonderful that you have your pseudo-nine friend to confide in
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top