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MOTM Dec 2012
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After reading a ton of horror stories about the pain of rejection and slander, I wonder can anyone survive the loss of self worth?

Is there any way of finding a source of self worth that cannot diminish, so that outside forces cannot assail your soul?

Is there a way for finding perfect harmony so that people around you will be drawn to your source of self worth also?

I await your response :ninja:
 

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I cannot give you answers, but only more questions.

What I can say however is that self worth is just so. Self being the key word.

We may go about life living it in very many ways, being appreciated or unappreciated by those around us.

What is truly magical is if we can live life with our own worth being judged by ourselves alone. If you cannot see yourself and your works in a positive light then how can you in any, way, shape or form imagine them to be appreciated by others as well?

It is a fairly simple concept, one that many of the great minds of the past have followed to various degrees.

Leonardro Da Vinci and Nikola Tesla being a few prime examples of such an ideology.

My question then to you is, how much value is there for you in something that you have created as a means of self expression, with as much heart and soul you could have mustered poured into it?

How much less of a value would it have then, if someone else were to judge it negatively? Does this persons outlook matter? if it does why not go about appreciating it and understanding it? if it doesn't matter, why allow it to effect your personal judgement?
 

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I think self-worth is very much based on your values and your beliefs about the purpose of your life. My belief is that since we're physical beings for such a very short time before we go back to being spiritual beings then my purpose for my brief stint in the physical world is to do stuff that I can only do as a physical being that I won't be able to do as a spiritual being.

For me that stuff, is creation, the bringing about of things in my head into the physical realm (relationships, writing, creating a life).

I've created friendships, relationships, writing, a career and so many things that didn't exist 20 years ago. So my self-worth is based on the fact that I continually create from the relationships that I build to the life I'm creating because I see creation as the purpose of physical life.

For other people, like my in-laws, it's religion. And they've built an amazing life around their faith. Everyone has some reason why they're alive, why they're not just taking up space. If you build a life around that reason, you're creating something you value and creating value creates self-worth.

As for attracting the right people into your life, I think if your actions align with your values, that congruency helps your subconscious move you towards people that align with the life you want to have.
 

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@UtterMess, I will kidnap your brain sooner or later and replace mine. :ninja::blushed: :laughing: @infoblog I do not know whether should I thank you or start slapping myself silly or both.:crying::sad:
 

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@UtterMess, I will kidnap your brain sooner or later and replace mine. :ninja::blushed: :laughing:
Thank you kindly. Be my guest, it gets a bit tiring actually so I'm open to the idea of taking it out for a spell. :laughing:
 

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Can anyone survive with the loss of self worth?
Maybe. But what kind of life is that? I can't see it being very long in any case.
It's entirely possible to survive with the loss of valuation given by other people, in my experience, but self-worth is ultimately I think the driving factor in our lives. Anything we are able to do for ourselves, our ability to think for ourselves, is built on a base of self-worth, is it not? Self-worth is to me like the earth into which the foundations themselves are sunk. You can build the metaphorical house in all kinds of crazy situations if you manage to get the foundations right, which varies in difficulty by situation. But good luck if you have absolutely nothing to build the foundations on.
Not to have self-worth at all is to suffer catastrophic failure, surely? Self worth is what's kept me alive. When it has been very low, I have felt very un-alive.

I don't understand quite what you mean by finding a source of self-worth which cannot diminish. The source of self-worth is the self; ultimately it can be built and much of the weight of it taken by the validation, love, appreciation and support of others, but there is only one source. The clue is in the name.
Self-worth is in a way self-reinforcing, not taking anything else into account. If you have a little belief and acceptance of some part of yourself, be it blind belief or reasoned, then you have a little strength with which to find love for some other part of yourself, or to build yourself slowly towards something you want to be, or whatever. That's my experience. Only with persistence on the part of yourself, a part which others may help and accelerate but cannot do for you, can you love yourself eventually.

As for your last question, I am just now in my life slowly beginning to understand the wisdom that one must love oneself in order to reasonably expect another to love them. I don't believe that's universally applicable or universally true even where it is, but I think it's a valid point. I'm not unsure also what you mean by harmony; I think it is almost impossible to truly have harmony between yourself and others. Ultimately self-worth, I think, must in part be fire-forged by conflict and placing value on yourself above whoever or whatever you are in conflict with. Total harmony could only be possible if either everyone agrees with you all the time, or if you are totally submissive. The latter is a sure way to lose one's self-worth, and I'm sceptical about how common the former is.

I know this has been pretty vague, sorry about that!
 

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In the book I'm reading by Schopenhauer, he urges you to run away from nearly everyone, and from marriage also.. how most great minds were alone with themselves. He points out how society is a big obstacle for genius, specially because it has a lot of power over your 'self worthiness', so until you can get to live by yourself not caring what the others think you won't be good enough.

That's what he says, it works for me now because I'm alone and depressed and and I'll probably still look it with sympathy when (if) I'm better in the future.

From age 12 or so I always was my own (and for a long time only) friend, and loved my self... But the situation now has killed all that because I put it all in a relationship that I lost. Now I'm slowly recovering it, but very slowly, it's so hard... Most of the time I'm like... I don't even feel like loving my self, or... What for? Why? And it's not easy.
 

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That's my second post, so well, I don't know whether this is slightly off-topic ...

I think self worth is essential to lead a happy life, and it should be independent from other's perception of youself. I generally don't care that much what the public thinks about me and I know to an extent who I am and why, but only because I have such good friends who know me well and make me feel comfortable despite my insecurities. Without them people I guess, I would feel unsure about myself and it would be difficult for me to hold my sense of self worth up. It must be a unusual strong person who could bear a complete indifferent or hostile environment without breaking down, and one who has to admire that.

Without feeling good about yourself, or actually objecting yourself, is something that can only lead to a state where you no more live but exist and drown in apathy, to my opinion.

To the question about how one can have self worth independent of the encouragement of society ... I guess some refer to faith or something they are passionate about, e.g. protecting nature or fighting poverty and disease.

PS: Hi!
 
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Yes, by questioning whose self worth issues are truly your own; only today for example I felt a deep sense of doubt, failure, uncertainty and disappointment at myself for not being able to motivate myself enough to look for employment...realising these were not even my feelings but rather negative precepts or expectations of how one should feel dating back to child-adulthood experiences of seeing maladaptive failure coping mechanisms.

Also by testing three realities: effort or time invested to achieve a goal, self analysis to question any 'changes' and questioning whether or not something could be improved upon without having to dismiss your own needs.
 

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I was thinking about this in the car, and the thought that came to my mind was, "Don't put all of your ego-eggs into one basket"



Or, be careful and mindful about where you invest your ego-eggs, because your ego-eggs are important (the eggs represent your sense of self-worth, and the baskets represent the sources and areas of your life from which you derive your sense of self worth). I mean, the risk raises that your sense of self worth may plummet drastically and suddenly if you invest solely into only one basket and something happens to that one basket. And then, you have to be mindful of what kind of baskets you are investing into in the first place... Don't put all of your eggs in a basket on top of a moving train.... and maybe don't put them in a basket if you haven't seen the bottom of the basket, because maybe it has a hole at the bottom, or maybe there is a hungry snake in there or something. Find a good number of baskets, check them out for sustainability and reliability, and then slowly and cautiously put some eggs in each one, see how they do, and then keep dispersing them into the various baskets if the baskets seem egg-worthy. But always maintain some egg-basket balance, with a good basket-to-egg ratio.

Have I lost you yet? :p

An eggsample of what I'm talking about is..... an athlete whose dream is to be a pro football player. He invests all of his eggs into the "I'm worthy because I'm a potential pro athlete" basket and when he gets a career ending injury before he's ever drafted onto a team, his sense of self worth is shot because he never saw himself as worthy through anything outside of that, and never invested much energy outside of that either. He doesn't know where to start.. He must start from scratch because he wasn't a well rounded ego-egg dispenser. And now all of his ego-eggs are a broken mess of yolks and shells. But had he invested into some other baskets (maybe into an additional career/major in college, or into another interest, or into focusing on family relationships and friendships or other things he neglected in attempt to reach his tunnel vision goal, he would have had at least some amount of safe eggs so that he didn't have to feel the discomfort of a completely deflated ego on a sunny side up egg dish)

This definitely isn't the be all and end all to this question, and you can take the question from many angles, but its just one idea on the topic. I've thought about it some in the past. Not specifically in the eggs-basket analogy, but the idea that when I set my sense of self worth for the most part on one specific thing and one thing alone = PROBLEMS.
Ego-dangerous!!! Ego dangerous I tell you!!!!!!!







Edit:
After shower amendment. Okay, so I was shampooing and contemplating what I said, and I need to amend just one aspect of it. There is a bit of a problem with my suggestion, because its impossible NOT to invest a good amount of your eggs into one basket when its an important basket of great value to you (for example, a career, a talent, an interest, a goal, an important relationship or friendship.. etc [depending on the individual of course]). And maybe its a sign of effort. I think instead, what I would propose and recommend, rather, is being prepared to adapt and adjust if necessary given that your baskets may shift and change throughout a lifetime. Say, for example, a mother gets a lot of her sense of self worth and identity from taking care of her children. And she's a great, wonderful mother. That's great! Its not bad that she invested so much love, hope, energy, time, and sense of worth through being a mother. But she may have to make some adjustments when her kids grow up and go off and make new nests of their own, leaving her to an empty nest and twiddling thumbs. She might need to be prepared to delve into other aspects of who she is. She might need to go out and find another basket.

Perhaps what I'm speaking on is being prepared to adjust and evolve as an individual, and understanding that your sources of self worth may evolve and shift throughout your lifetime, avoiding too much disappointed when in a transition, and being open to unlocking new sides of yourself, and with them, new sources for self worth. Maybe the theme of my long, drawn out post is openness.
 

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Have I lost you yet? :p
Your eggcitingly pleasant sense of humor and way with words never ceases to amaze me.

That is a very good point. Having our sense of self worth tied into multiple areas (in this case having a lot of eggs in different places xD ) will act as a safety net of sorts if one avenue of self worth fails us.

That type of outlook on life is eggcellent and I'm not trying to eggsagerate here. =)
 

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I've faced rejection and the odd criticism, but there isn't a villain in my story. I've never had outside sources try to erode my self worth and am generally surrounded by supportive people. However,

Penchant for the dramatic (+) enjoyment of melancholy (-) an outside villain = I am my own villain

You have to love yourself, no one can do it for you. I found someone who loves me unconditionally, and thought this would make my self worth rise automatically. It doesn't work that way. You rationalize their opinion ("They're biased, they don't actually see what I see, etc") and your opinion of yourself stays the same.

My self worth varies from day to day. It's better on days I wake up clear-minded instead of foggy, or take the time to get dressed and cleaned up for the day rather than sit in pajamas. That's more of a minor pick-me-up though. My artistic/creative efforts are what boost me highest on the rare times I'm happy with them. Unfortunately, when I'm not happy with them (which is most of the time) they make me miserable. I'm a perfectionist and have a tough time giving myself credit, yet no problem giving myself criticism. If I do something well it's, "No big deal. Anyone could have done that." Yet if I do something poorly I tell myself "You're worthless, this is a piece of shit, why do you even bother trying?"

It boils down to retraining thought processes and being less critical of ourselves. A lot of INFPs probably like themselves on good days, but those sunny points aren't visible when we're carrying around our black cloud of self-loathing. So we might have 2 good days where we see our self worth, and then 8 bad ones and think "Hmm, must have been imagining it."

On a side note, I've always imagined self worth/esteem to be most elusive in strong Fi types for this reason. Moodiness means you can't hold onto any one reality for a good length of time, which means you're always going to question what's actually going on. Constant confusion can be just as damaging as outright negativity, I think.
 

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I like what @Oh_no_she_DIDNT had to say. Not only the underlying message but also the egg jokes. Gotta love the egg jokes. :)

I was thinking about where I get my self-worth. I honestly think it stems from being around people who care about me. I feel like having a support system and a foundation of friends and/or family who you can rely on and who always will be there for you is key. I think about kids who grew up in foster homes or orphanages and how they notoriously have low self-worth. No one was around to tell them they were a lovable person. They were rejected from birth, they feel unworthy of any kind of love. I know some people in these situations can overcome this, but I don't think they will say they did it on their own, all alone. I think they probably did it with the help of others. People need a cheering section. We are social animals. We need each other.

My signature (which nobody on this forum has ever complimented me on, by the way, which I find interesting) relates to this. I learned that I needed to be around people who love me and I need to feel a certain amount of acceptance among others in order for me to be a confident, worthy of love type of person. When I am displaced, no matter how "free" I may feel being outside the circle, I tend to get withdrawn into myself, which can be good, but can also lead to plunging into dark thoughts. Neuroticism, etc. We need each other for encouragement, validation, support. Without this, we (or I) feel lost. And I suppose everyone has their amount of these things they need, and it varies from one person to the next. But I know for me, I associate some of my self-worth with how others view me. You can say that it doesn't matter what people think of you, but I have a hunch that that's kind of bullshit. If everyone hates you and you have no one to come home to for years and years, it will take its toll.

I have seen first hand what happens to people's self-worth when their family and friends have rejected them. It's not pretty. That is why I believe we need each other to lean on. We need love and acceptance. Insert all those corny quotes about love here.

that's my view.
 
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