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Hello,

I was watching this video and thinking that I relate more to the sensor. If someone asks me to do a task I will do it thoroughly and in depth. I will probably be constantly going back to my boss or tutor with more questions to make sure that I am on the right track with my details.

Which do you relate to? And is what this guy is saying acurate? Or will a J or P preference have an effect on how the S or N functions work?

Thanks!

 

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I think that video was pretty good at explaining it. The whole thing about "airhead!" totally relates to me. I have known some ISFJ's and they are so caught up in the details they overwhelm themselves and when they see how I take my approach they think I am not getting it.
 

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The "air head" response I get is partly why I back up everything I write or say with details and examples. I try and show step by step how I got to an idea or conclusion, only I do it too much as I find it hard to gadge how much detail the other person needs.

But I am also a planner, and I dislike suprises, and I feel I need detail to enrich things. I like to have all the details so I can make my own conclusions and see how ideas can inter-connect, and more easily connect it all into my existing knowledge. I feel others might want the same, as I would.

Plus, I see potentual queries or arguments against what I have writen, so I attempt to prempt them and defend myself before the critisim is made.

Hence my epic posts...and essays, and stories, and inability to shut up, and so on and so on.
 

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The only thing accurate from my intuitive point of view was the belittling that would take place by a manager that has a different point of perception. The five year plan that a manager would get from me would have detail and estimated budgets.
 
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I would present a five year plan like the Intuitive would. Furthermore, I still stubbornly believe that the facts and figures are completely irrelevant to the point. Sure, achieve it. Achieve it however you like. No need for the detail when things (especially 5 years from now!) may not play out like you hope.

So yes, I would be an Intuitive in this case. However, as a perfectionist, if you gave me guidelines that required details, I would give you details.
 

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My initial drive is to talk about vision first, then if vision is acceptable and alignment with the bigger picture or what our aims are, figure out the details of how to get there. I guess it is sort of strategic - you see a goal then come up with means. I feel other people place emphasis on more tactical/operational kind of planning - they go from means to a goal and any other ways they consider to be impractical.

I don't know if this relates to sensor vs intuitive differences in thinking. This picture for me represents best what is going on. Red circles represent things you can pick up with your senses - see/read, hear, taste, touch. The lines between them represent relationships between these things. Sensor mindset emphasizes the first, intuitive mindset emphasizes the later and the two can be blind to each other's way of thinking.



Word of caution for INFJs - never ever work for an ESTJ. They have zero Ni and it is next to impossible to explain to them what you think should be done.
 

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vel;721992]My initial drive is to talk about vision first, then if vision is acceptable and alignment with the bigger picture or what our aims are, figure out the details of how to get there.

I don't know if this relates to sensor vs intuitive differences in thinking.
It sounds more like linner thinking vs big picture thinking...but it has similarities, yes, and N would seem to encorage being a big picture thinker, and S linnier.

Word of caution for felling INFJs - never ever work for an ESTJ. They have zero Ni and it is next to impossible to explain to them what you think should be done.
Try having one as a parent. I live in a dictatorship, where my worth as a human is mesured by whether I do the washing up the right way. Currently I have "failed as a human being" or "failed at life" depending on his mood...really? I wasn't awair life was a competitive game focused around getting my father's tea the exact shade he likes. But blah...ESTJs and me clash pretty epicly.
 

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Try having one as a parent. I live in a dictatorship, where my worth as a human is mesured by whether I do the washing up the right way. Currently I have "failed as a human being" or "failed at life" depending on his mood...really? I wasn't awair life was a competitive game focused around getting my father's tea the exact shade he likes. But blah...ESTJs and me clash pretty epicly.
my sincere condolences :( ... I know another ESTJ and he has complained about having problems with his son which I gathered pretty much amounted to to him wanting to bend him under his will - I mean he meant well as a father, but approach totally misfired - he is also very often critical of people and can explode in anger once in a while especially if he is sick with flu or something like it

Life for ESTJs is a series of linear goals to achieve. These goals are established in accordance with whatever he or she has gathered is logical by some outside standard to do. On another forum there was an interesting exercise to experience what Te is like. I found it interesting because I know INFJs have like zero Te so it was a perspective completely foreign to me:
... "While engaging in some activity, define criteria of successful completion for each stage as you go. Make no move until you have stated clearly defined criteria--in words, out loud. For example, if you are washing the dishes, mentally divide the process into stages before you begin. If the first stage is to run water and get some suds going, then state how much water you're going to pour into the sink (perhaps point to the level in the sink at which you will turn off the water, but stating a numerical measurement is better), whether the water will be hot, warm, or cold, and where would be the best place to squirt the soap. If the second stage is to put the dirty dishes into the water, then say, before you begin, where you will put them to begin with and what sequence you will put them in. And so on. Do nothing until you have deliberately decided to do it and said out loud what you are about to do."

Contrary to this, when I'm washing dishes I am also boiling some potatoes and trying to re-heat my tea in the microwave and in the hall there is vacuum cleaner with which I cleaned half the hallway then drifted off to wash dishes and laundry is of course in works :D
 

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To answer the initial question - I would approach it in the way that was needed. My first question to my manager would be what is the context of the plan - how are you going to use it? If he said "I need to submit budget proposals next week" that is a very different answer to "we need to find a new way of doing XYZ"

I would be trying to use my empathy to understand his context.

Mind you if he was a half decent manager that context would have come with the request :frustrating:


My favourite difference between the sensor and intuitive types is the cabin in the woods exercise - I don't know if you have seen this? Basically you are given a picture of a log cabin in the woods by a river with a canoe. You get to look at it for a few minutes then asked to describe it.

The Intuitives started talking about a great place to take a break, relaxing in the woods, smell of pine, the sense of the cycle of life in the wilderness, the animals etc (i.e nothing that is physically in the picture!).

The sensors in our group actually started an argument about whether there were 8 or 9 pine trees in the picture - it transpired, eventually, that apparently one tree may not have been a pine.......
 

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You may also think of couples discussing their common future; if one of them is a sensor and the other an intuitive, it could be difficult for them to understand eachother.

Sometimes you hear the girl complaining concerning wedding preparations; "He is just not romantic, all he talks about is the number of guests and at what time we have to be ready for the photographer!" or "He is just too much up in the sky - I mean, 300 people will be watching us, and he hasn't even found a nice suit yet!"
 

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My initial drive is to talk about vision first, then if vision is acceptable and alignment with the bigger picture or what our aims are, figure out the details of how to get there. I guess it is sort of strategic - you see a goal then come up with means. I feel other people place emphasis on more tactical/operational kind of planning - they go from means to a goal and any other ways they consider to be impractical.

I don't know if this relates to sensor vs intuitive differences in thinking. This picture for me represents best what is going on. Red circles represent things you can pick up with your senses - see/read, hear, taste, touch. The lines between them represent relationships between these things. Sensor mindset emphasizes the first, intuitive mindset emphasizes the later and the two can be blind to each other's way of thinking.

I relate to this completely.

I work backwards from the vision. I need to create a vision to begin with and then collect the details i need to fill out the picture.
 

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My initial drive is to talk about vision first, then if vision is acceptable and alignment with the bigger picture or what our aims are, figure out the details of how to get there. I guess it is sort of strategic - you see a goal then come up with means. I feel other people place emphasis on more tactical/operational kind of planning - they go from means to a goal and any other ways they consider to be impractical.

I don't know if this relates to sensor vs intuitive differences in thinking. This picture for me represents best what is going on. Red circles represent things you can pick up with your senses - see/read, hear, taste, touch. The lines between them represent relationships between these things. Sensor mindset emphasizes the first, intuitive mindset emphasizes the later and the two can be blind to each other's way of thinking.



Word of caution for INFJs - never ever work for an ESTJ. They have zero Ni and it is next to impossible to explain to them what you think should be done.
I can't quite get my head around this (either I'm thick or it's because I'm ill today and very tired).

So the sensor sees the details where as the intuitor can see how the deatils relate to each other?
 

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It sounds more like linner thinking vs big picture thinking...but it has similarities, yes, and N would seem to encorage being a big picture thinker, and S linnier.



Try having one as a parent. I live in a dictatorship, where my worth as a human is mesured by whether I do the washing up the right way. Currently I have "failed as a human being" or "failed at life" depending on his mood...really? I wasn't awair life was a competitive game focused around getting my father's tea the exact shade he likes. But blah...ESTJs and me clash pretty epicly.
Me and my mum can be a little like this...but not to the extreme. My mum types as an INFJ and she likes to have her tea in a particularly way, just the right amount of milk and if it is wrong we have to make it again or she will do it herself. She doesn't get angry she is just very particular. Where as if someone made me a drink and it wasn't quite how I like it I would drink it anyway because really I'm not that bothered and don't want to hurt the other person's feelings.

When it comes to house cleaning I have a particulary way of doing things and so does my mum and my brother (INTP) does it differently to us. And this annoys us. Plus he will do it when HE wants to do it, not when we ask him to do it which really drives us nuts!
 

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I can't quite get my head around this (either I'm thick or it's because I'm ill today and very tired).

So the sensor sees the details where as the intuitor can see how the deatils relate to each other?
Yes.

It's the forest vs. trees analogy.

Intuitives see a big huge forest and start to form connections and concepts around the idea of a forest. Sensors see the individual trees and can describe them in vivid detail.

That's oversimplifying the concept. In real life it's not quite black and white.

ps, umbrella, you might want to look into more differences between Ns and Ss. You strike me as being more of an S perhaps - so it might be worth checking into.
 

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I can't quite get my head around this (either I'm thick or it's because I'm ill today and very tired).

So the sensor sees the details where as the intuitor can see how the deatils relate to each other?
Pretty much. To intuitive details are not very important. The relationships between details are very important though. In this video they are called "vision" and sensor version to me sounds more like a practical plan.

Intuitives will often talk in sense of one thing connecting to the next and the next, because this is what excited our minds.

Introverted intuitives (INxJs and ENxJs) will talk about things they have observed in past as support information, and then come up with one or two things that they see should be done. Extraverted intuitives (ENxP and INxPs) will talk about a lot of possible things that could be done without trying to tie it into past much. That's why people say they are more future and possibility oriented and more imaginative, while introverted intuitives are very strongly tied into the past and sound more grounded.
 

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Word of caution for INFJs - never ever work for an ESTJ. They have zero Ni and it is next to impossible to explain to them what you think should be done.
I think my art teacher might be an ESTJ, he never understands me and often accuses me of trying to skip out on the work, I guess because I don't do detail... I'm on my 8th draft of a paper i was suppost to write for him.
 

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Pretty much. To intuitive details are not very important. The relationships between details are very important though. In this video they are called "vision" and sensor version to me sounds more like a practical plan.

Intuitives will often talk in sense of one thing connecting to the next and the next, because this is what excited our minds.

Introverted intuitives (INxJs and ENxJs) will talk about things they have observed in past as support information, and then come up with one or two things that they see should be done. Extraverted intuitives (ENxP and INxPs) will talk about a lot of possible things that could be done without trying to tie it into past much. That's why people say they are more future and possibility oriented and more imaginative, while introverted intuitives are very strongly tied into the past and sound more grounded.
I'm rather easy to work for. I have enough problems on my own anyway, just don't get in my way or take my niceness for weakness.
 

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Word of caution for INFJs - never ever work for an ESTJ. They have zero Ni and it is next to impossible to explain to them what you think should be done.


I'm rather easy to work for. I have enough problems on my own anyway, just don't get in my way or take my niceness for weakness.
 
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