Sounds like you are hanging out with the wrong sensors. Establish relevance and we'll be right there with you.

@Flora:
I'm a sensor but I would also be driven nuts by the people you speak of. They have no conversation skills, they're self-absorbed and incredibly dull. It's not because they're sensors, it's because no one has ever had the guts to tell them to STFU.

I don't know why people think of sensors as not being able to talk about anything other than the moon and movies and food and whatnot. Personally, if you want to talk about history, politics, social problems, or world events, my sensor dad is the first person you should go to.

the only issue i have with them is they're more grounded and rational. They don't understand/like my idealism. i'm sure if i found one with similar values we'd get along fine

Now this is true. Idealism is actually a pretty big turn off and will send me looking for another conversation to attach myself to.

SenhorFrio said:

the only issue i have with them is they're more grounded and rational. They don't understand/like my idealism. i'm sure if i found one with similar values we'd get along fine

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Pretty sure husband is ISFJ and I don't know what I'd do without him. And sometimes I wander over into the ISFP forum and everyone seems so laid back and cool. I don't think I mind sensors that much. I have a hard time w/ female ENFJs and some Es.

Ah yes...the sensors. For me, it's not that sensors don't talk about interesting things, it's how they talk about things. In my experience, a lot of sensors seem to share many of the tangible details about the topic that my mind has to then analyze to determine what bearing it has on the idea or the point, and whether it's important or not. If the details are germane, or entertaining, or useful, I can connect them with the point and I'm happy. But if you are continuing to talk, and I already know your point, and you are mostly sharing details, my brain will be in a massive struggle to listen.

An example is when someone starts to talk about an individual, and you know that they brought the person up for a reason, but then they going into factoids of minimal importance. Of particular vexation is when an individual is mentioned and then the person proceeds to mention who their family and friends are, what they do for work, and how long they've known each other. I am thinking to myself ("Ok, do I need to remember these facts? Is this going to help me understand what's coming up next?), and my brain has to work to keep track of these details, and still try to follow the point. And then the point is, "Yeah, so he went to Coldplay last year, too, and he said they were good live." I am thinking...("ok...I already knew you were headed toward that statement...so that's it? ok.)

I know that I am an Intuitive, so I have my biases (I was 100% N and 0% S on the test...that makes no Sense!), but I really do feel like extra details should not be mentioned unless they have some purpose, and will supply perspective to the meaning of the topic of discussion. There are exceptions of course, like when the person speaking is mutually understood to be sharing details for the sake of sharing the information.

I do like many Sensors, though, let me just say that. Some are great story-tellers and can use details in an exciting or interesting way that pulls you in. And I can learn a lot from their sensibility and perspectives.

I've never met a sensor who does that. Sounds more like an ENFP.

ISTPs in particular are very concerned about getting to the point in any discussion. However, like all P-types we don't mind digressing if the point has already been made, or if it's a stupid point.

Re details, I do occasionally get stuck on details when someone else is trying to make a point. I can see how that's annoying for the other person, but a small erroneous detail can sometimes make it hard to follow their logic.

Matchbook said:

An example is when someone starts to talk about an individual, and you know that they brought the person up for a reason, but then they going into factoids of minimal importance. Of particular vexation is when an individual is mentioned and then the person proceeds to mention who their family and friends are, what they do for work, and how long they've known each other. I am thinking to myself ("Ok, do I need to remember these facts? Is this going to help me understand what's coming up next?), and my brain has to work to keep track of these details, and still try to follow the point. And then the point is, "Yeah, so he went to Coldplay last year, too, and he said they were good live." I am thinking...("ok...I already knew you were headed toward that statement...so that's it? ok.)

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Really? I definitely know sensors that do it. As for the ENFP, it's true that ENFPs digress a lot and add in lots of thoughts, but for some reason I always follow them well and enjoy whatever they say. I think it may be because they are very conscious of keeping people "with them" in the conversation, and so they take a whole bunch of threads but they all somehow start weaving together, or if not, I was entertained!

My main drive is that in a conversation with a Sensor or Intuitive, or time spent together, it's important for me to have some pursuable meaning and intrigue in what we say and do. Plain information and activity is very difficult unless I see how it can connect to understanding something, someone, or some concept in an interesting way that will stimulate my mind, and I think this occurs with other INFPs simply because we spend so much time in our mind.

For instance, the other day, an ESTP was showing my friend and me how to carve a bow out of a piece of locust wood - something he does for a living. He explained in detail how to carve away, how to deal with the knots, and how to carve it so that the top layer is all part of one growth ring, requiring one to carefully observe the color and pith while carving along the length of wood. My mind filtered out most of what he said, except the general ideas, but when he was showing how you could carve so as to stay on one growth ring, my mind sparked. I started thinking about what an interesting challenge it was to try to carve so that the top layer was only part of one growth ring. (Thinking to myself: "Hmm, the thicker pith between the rings is the spring/summer part because it grows faster? Awesome, that makes sense! The thin and visible dark ring is the winter ring because it grows less. Wow...I hadn't thought about that! And using the right angle of carving, I can carve through the pith and have just the hard ring layer...nice!") After that, my mind connected to the activity more, because I understood why it was interesting. If he had mentioned those things first, and told us that the reason you want to only expose one layer of growth ring is because it makes the bow sturdy, I would have found the other details more interesting.

Ironically, I'm over-detailing my post. Ha!

I'm sure that sensors get wearied of intuitives who are always speaking generally with lots of figures of speech and conceptual thoughts, but never get to explaining the practical perspective.

rousse said:

I've never met a sensor who does that. Sounds more like an ENFP.

ISTPs in particular are very concerned about getting to the point in any discussion. However, like all P-types we don't mind digressing if the point has already been made, or if it's a stupid point.

Re details, I do occasionally get stuck on details when someone else is trying to make a point. I can see how that's annoying for the other person, but a small erroneous detail can sometimes make it hard to follow their logic.

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I agree with rousse--that isn't really a sensor trait. It's more of a trait found in the BORE MBTI type. :crazy:

As a sensor, I communicate for facts. If relevance cannot be established, you're losing me--fast.

i feel the same in reverse. i feel(and i think alot of infps are the same)that i don't have to be so relevant, i'm always going on about some random thing,and now that you mntion is so well i had tatproblem with sensor friend of mnie she'd alwasy complain"does it matter"and no it ddin't but i just don't care about relevance. it can be a problem, but if we're on the sae page we're rgiht-it's jsut hard to be on the same page

niss63 said:

I agree with rousse--that isn't really a sensor trait. It's more of a trait found in the BORE MBTI type. :crazy:

As a sensor, I communicate for facts. If relevance cannot be established, you're losing me--fast.

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Yeah, for sure you guys are a bit "out there" at times.

And I'll admit that sensors can be overly concerned with mundane things. Fortunately we're not all stupid enough to think that everyone else wants to know about those things.

SenhorFrio said:

i had tatproblem with sensor friend of mnie she'd alwasy complain"does it matter"and no it ddin't but i just don't care about relevance.

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Lol...I had to laugh at this thread because just tonight my mom (ISFJ) was telling me a story about this court trial she had to go to today. I was standing there holding a heavy object and thinking to myself as this never ending story went on and on "I knew I should have asked 'how was your day' AFTER I set the heavy object down...".....as I should've known I was going to get a detailed description of every facet of the entire day! She went on and on about the people in the courtroom and the conversations she had with so and so and she couldn't believe he said this and that lady said that...and all about the drive there and the drive home............... My eyes are glazing over and I'm trying to not be rude and listen to all of these details when finally I said "If there's much more to this story I'm going to have to set this down because my arms are falling off...."

If it had been me in the courtroom all day I would've been bored and spaced out....daydreaming about fairies in the forest or something...and couldn't even tell you why I was there at the end of the day! :crazy: My response to "How was your day" would've been something like.... "Fine, kind of boring...I came up with this really awesome story...I have to go so I can go write it in my journal before I forget...." lol

The more I learn about Sensors the more I appreciate them and am learning to understand our differences so I can have better relationships with them. And everybody different from myself for that matter...

I appreciate sensors because they can tell a story I would of told a complete different way which is entertaining to hear I think because I never thought about it like that.. I feel like the more I have conversations with sensors the more I can help balance myself out a little better, Yeah, sometimes I'll start to feel really restless during a detailed-grounded conversation but I'm just really interested in what they have to say anyway I don't mind.

I know what you mean Flora, and I know that you are not suggesting all "sensing" types talk about is biscuits and car parks. Just that the ones you know, or are closest to, often don't talk with the same idealism you hold.
I oftentimes think intuition types talk about things that sometimes bore me too. In the same way, I probably bore a lot of people because I don't talk about what's "cool" or trending, I don't talk about cultural icons and what's happening and I don't talk about other people.

My mum is an esfj and my father is an istp. And I love observing her in the evenings talk to my father about her whole day at work. She will talk for about 40 minutes and my father will give feedback. How anyone can give a detailed account of their whole day, just amazes me. I forget half the things I do, and moreover can't talk about doing things for more than a sentence. My answer when someone asks me how my day was, is "good" *silence*.
Personally, I find the information sensing types talk about, is the missing piece in my life. I need to be around people who are grounded, especially now when I'm progressing as a person. Drawing focus to "what is" (or "what was") allows me to breathe. Allows me to be more objective and reach into Te.

If you get bored, embrace it. Embrace the moment and what they are talking about. Let your Ne find possibilities, but don't fly too far away. If you're game, keep running your ideas past them. It's seriously the best way to look at a subject from multiple points of view other than your own, even if they immediately shut it down. Ask why and how they think what they do. Then attempt to convince them. Engage in a dialogue and learn to speak the different personalities languages. Adapt your communication style. Both you and them have the opportunity to grow (especially because you can get to the root of their opinion through empathy), AND often times, once it's familiar to them and you, it starts becoming more comfortable to talk about.

A lot of istps' I know have some kind of philosophical worldview. There's a lot swimming around in their minds, and they can talk about various subjects when prompted. Estps' are the same from my experience. But again, the romantic fervor or passionate idealism you wont find with all people. I think that's more an Fi+Ne thing. What you might find is a willingness to participate in dialogue about ideas and systems. If that's what they are interested in. Fi is a bit of a hill to get over as well, because good luck trying to get an infp to engage in something they don't like :laughing:
I know plenty of sensors who will talk about ideas. In fact, I really have no problem talking to them. What you probably take issue with is the lack of Fi-ness. You'd probably prefer a little subjectivity. More attachment to the subject than cold objectivity.

Someone has mentioned it before, but infps' feel through intuition, and think through sensing. So as we get older, we're more likely to resemble xstjs' and get along with them. I find that I generally appreciate my time more with ST's than SF's. But I get on with both similarly.

It's funny, I was around esfps' constantly for about 9 years, and they were the ones to really encourage my Ne :laughing:

This is the main difference between S & N "talk" that I've noted, much more so than actual topic, but it's hard to articulate in words. There are many sensors I have interests in common with and with whom I can have interesting conversations, but they approach these topics differently than the intuitives I know. I can appreciate the different perspective, but sometimes it's nice when someone shares your way of perceiving - I say this mainly as I find my view being dismissed in real life offline (just as sensors may experience that here sometimes).

It's also basic trends being noted, as anyone can sometimes get analytical or make frivolous commentary on everyday mundanities, or approach a topic from a factual, concrete angle.

Matchbook said:

Ah yes...the sensors. For me, it's not that sensors don't talk about interesting things, it's how they talk about things. In my experience, a lot of sensors seem to share many of the tangible details about the topic that my mind has to then analyze to determine what bearing it has on the idea or the point, and whether it's important or not. If the details are germane, or entertaining, or useful, I can connect them with the point and I'm happy. But if you are continuing to talk, and I already know your point, and you are mostly sharing details, my brain will be in a massive struggle to listen.

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niss63 said:

As a sensor, I communicate for facts. If relevance cannot be established, you're losing me--fast.

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This is pretty much what I interpret Matchbook to be referring to - you communicate for facts. I generally have no interest in dry data. I only want to know the MEANING. A few important supporting facts is nice, but not nearly as much as analyzing what they imply. To me, facts don't establish relevancy and reality is not very interesting unless they can be connected to something of significance beyond the obvious.

From my perspective, sensors often communicate info for the sake of the info, and intuitives ideas for the sake of ideas, and each can seem pointless to the other.

Yeah, I see your point. I determine the meaning in my own mind, connecting the dots and drawing conclusions internally. Give me the facts and I'll ask questions if I need clarification, and then I'll determine for myself what it means.

I dislike rambling long winded answers to simple questions like darkestar mentioned (How was your day?). I also dislike stories that try to get me to come to a specific conclusion as red flags go up and I feel I am being "sold" on an idea. Give me too much irrelevant data and I feel as though I am in a jungle of tall grass and am having to cut through the grass to get to the real information that is trying to be conveyed.

Thinking out loud also bugs me--SWMBO does a lot of this.:crazy:

I view this communication difference as partially a gender issue, too. Most times it seems that women use conversation as a method of connecting whereas guys tend to be less talkative in their conversations and in relating the events of their day.

It is interesting how we relate, though. Good thread.

OrangeAppled said:

This is pretty much what I interpret Matchbook to be referring to - you communicate for facts. I generally have no interest in dry data. I only want to know the MEANING. A few important supporting facts is nice, but not nearly as much as analyzing what they imply. To me, facts don't establish relevancy and reality is not very interesting unless they can be connected to something of significance beyond the obvious.

From my perspective, sensors often communicate info for the sake of the info, and intuitives ideas for the sake of ideas, and each can seem pointless to the other.

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This could be an ISFJ thing...or just a "my mom" thing... I was at the store last night with my mom and she was talking the poor salesgirls ear off about the outfit she bought for this event she's going to... I could tell the girl didn't care and just wanted to get away and my mom went on and on and on......... I walked off, came back, and she was still talking.... I finally rescued the poor girl by telling my mom we really had to go... I also know an ESFP who goes on and on and onnnnnnn.... You don't even have to ask him a question...he just starts talking the second you make eye contact (which I have learned to avoid like the plague). Both ISTJ's I know don't ramble on at all...they usually get to the point which is refreshing. And some of our conversations are very deep and interesting.

As an INFP I can babble on and on about things I'm really into...for example I can go on for hours about my favorite band. To somebody who isn't into my favorite band....I'm sure their eyes would glaze over. But my intuition also tells me they're not interested...so I stop talking... I think the ISFJ & ESFP's I mentioned are both oblivious as to whether or not you are remotely interested in what they're talking about.

I'm still learning about MBTI and have yet to really understand all of the different personality types and how the functions vary. So these kinds of threads are really interesting to me. I find our differences fascinating...

niss63 said:

Yeah, I see your point. I determine the meaning in my own mind, connecting the dots and drawing conclusions internally. Give me the facts and I'll ask questions if I need clarification, and then I'll determine for myself what it means.

I dislike rambling long winded answers to simple questions like darkestar mentioned (How was your day?). I also dislike stories that try to get me to come to a specific conclusion as red flags go up and I feel I am being "sold" on an idea. Give me too much irrelevant data and I feel as though I am in a jungle of tall grass and am having to cut through the grass to get to the real information that is trying to be conveyed.

Thinking out loud also bugs me--SWMBO does a lot of this.:crazy:

I view this communication difference as partially a gender issue, too. Most times it seems that women use conversation as a method of connecting whereas guys tend to be less talkative in their conversations and in relating the events of their day.

It is interesting how we relate, though. Good thread.

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That eye contact thing is so true!

My mom is ESFJ and that is so her - she talks to anyone, about anything, and doesn't seem to realize when the other party is uninterested. Especially in store situations like you mentioned, my Ne starts cringing for the sales person, because I know how awkward I would feel in that situation. My dad is ISTJ, and as you said, he is a very refreshing person, gets right to the point. I don't zone out when he talks because I don't have time - there's no babble to wait through.

The main reason I get impatient/zone out during most S-talk is because there is a 99.9% chance I'll forget it two seconds after the conversation ends. Abstract, conceptual things, on the other hand, get stored almost instantly without effort on my part. I'm trying to not be such a lazy listener. :blushed: I definitely need work on my sensing functions, but it is super draining to nail myself to the conversation and not float away....

darkestar said:

This could be an ISFJ thing...or just a "my mom" thing... I was at the store last night with my mom and she was talking the poor salesgirls ear off about the outfit she bought for this event she's going to... I could tell the girl didn't care and just wanted to get away and my mom went on and on and on......... I walked off, came back, and she was still talking.... I finally rescued the poor girl by telling my mom we really had to go... I also know an ESFP who goes on and on and onnnnnnn.... You don't even have to ask him a question...he just starts talking the second you make eye contact (which I have learned to avoid like the plague). Both ISTJ's I know don't ramble on at all...they usually get to the point which is refreshing. And some of our conversations are very deep and interesting.

As an INFP I can babble on and on about things I'm really into...for example I can go on for hours about my favorite band. To somebody who isn't into my favorite band....I'm sure their eyes would glaze over. But my intuition also tells me they're not interested...so I stop talking... I think the ISFJ & ESFP's I mentioned are both oblivious as to whether or not you are remotely interested in what they're talking about.

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