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#1 ·
What turns a person into a serial killer? I often hear about them being like some odd phenomenon in human neural development, that is, an example of many things going wrong at the same time in the development of a person from birth to adulthood. These are a mix of genetic and environmental factors, that combine in such and such a way so as to create the "perfect storm", that is, the birth of a serial killer. What would you imagine it would take to push someone over that edge?
 
#2 ·
Serial killers or better known as psychopaths are people who have traits like glibness and superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, cunning/manipulative, lack of remorse, emotional shallowness, callousness and lack of empathy, unwillingness to accept responsibility for actions, a tendency to boredom. They have these traits because not all of the electrical waves in their brain are working right, its like their fear and empathy are shut off making them different from the majority of people. here's a link that might help 3 Things Psychopaths Can Teach You About Being a Happier Person - TIME
 
#47 ·
@desert I'm not sure ALL serial killers are Psychopaths. I know Jeffrey Dahmer was Borderline or something, and I saw material stating that Ted Bundy was more Bipolar than anything. Schizotypal symptoms can also lead to the "deluded visionary" type of mission based serial killer.
And likewise, not all psychopaths are serial killers...
 
#4 ·
I believe the root cause is inherently sexual. They can't have normal intimacy, even Dahmer had gay sex slaves and Wuornos killed men, and Knorr killed her two teenaged daughters out of sexual jealousy. All the way back to Jack the Ripper and prostitutes. It would I guess be linked to a pathological inability to bond and enormous sexual entitlement. That's why they sometimes keep trophies of body parts.
 
#20 ·
Do you think that applies to male violence more broadly? It is sexual?

I agree that serial killers are not even interesting. They have no cause but themselves. Guys like Hitler are actually interesting.

Somebody made an interesting thread on this:

 
#6 ·
I read this study about an adopted child who was raised in a very loving/stable home, but turned into a violent criminal murderer.

While he was in prison, his cell-mate noticed that he looked almost identical, albeit younger, than a man he knew from a prison in another state. The Prison psychologist did some digging and found out the other man was his father. After interviewing the father, the two men had led nearly identical lives.

Both began committing crimes at the same age, they had the same interests, and were serving life for murder. What is even stranger, is that when the psychologist dug even deeper, the grandfather of these two men had a life that mirrored the other two! A violent, criminal murderer with similar tastes, interests, and his life unfolded on the same time frame as his son and grandson.

None of these men had ever met each other.

Clearly a strong biological link here that totally overwhelmed the Nurture factor in Nature Vs Nurture, in these men's case.
 
#16 ·
I definitely think it's both nature and nurture. It has to be partly nurture, though, since the serial killer rose with industrial capitalism, and the spree shooter rose in the digital age. ..and typically these perps are white (if not white, Asian, never like Mexican or black) and male and middle class. There are female outliers, but there's definitely some sort of pattern here.
 
#7 ·
I would suggest not to equal serial killers to psychopaths because they are not synonyms.

Yeah, it usually seems to come with a sexual undertone. Oppression, sexual humiliation...

Ted buddy talked about boredom too. He seems like someone who almost just let go.

Interestingly, serial killers more often than not turn out have a high IQ.
 
#8 ·
Serial killer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Studies have suggested that serial killers generally have an average or low-average IQ, although they are often described, and perceived, as possessing IQs in the above-average range.[7][14][21] A sample of 174 IQs of serial killers had a median IQ of 93; only serial killers who used bombs had an average IQ above the population mean.[22]

Many have been abused, bullied, bed wetters, pyro's, menial employment. But the serial killer with a high IQ is more pop culture than reality.
 
#9 ·
it all depends on if they get a rise from the killing, pleasure and the like, or if it's for some other agenda like in the case of the unabomber. Would you count contract killers? There's a bit of a mystique blended in to some convicted serial killers, and fabrications as well.. I honestly don't think they're really that interesting.
 
#19 ·
Yes I think worship of them is wrong, the serial killer as celebrity, like they're geniuses or something. They usually aren't. What they do is different, it's interesting. It's PRIMITIVE. I think some of us are more interested in our animal past more than others, which is why some of us like horror movies, we just can't believe the deathless lie...in other cultures, people die every day and there are actually adults in the United States who have never seen a dead body.

There is a level of admiration though I do have for the crafty ones. The ones who have an ongoing apparent skill to hunt and kill and collect humans. Like these people are playing the most dangerous game. Certain ones, like the Zodiac, were sharper than others. Then you have your kind of sloppy ones who are just interesting in their depravity. Theresa Knorr is the wicked queen in the fairy tale. Just like omg, people still do these things, it's not "behind us."

I have a much deeper contempt for spree killers. No talent losers. Amateurs...but seriously, they anger me in their straight forward selfish stupidity. No moral shame, no intellectual reason. Just spraying bullets.
 
#11 ·
@Razorgirl Same. I do sometimes think about what happens to cause an overwhelming need to murder though. It's because I find humans as a whole interesting, that I think about what individual people do with their lives. Contract killer, I probably wouldn't count. I'd say that there needs to be an autonomous compulsion, with a pattern. A contract killer kills who they kill for money, they kill who they're told to kill.
 
#15 ·
You might enjoy the show Criminal Minds. Its about the BAU (behavioral analysis unit) that hunts serial killers by analyzing their killing patterns, victomology, and what type of weapons they use. In one episode they go in depth of the neorological state and how their brains have a deformed frontal cortex, and unproportional brain hemispheres.

As far as why they kill, ask yourself, why does a hunter kill? For sport, or are they merely projecting their domance over what they believe is an inferior species?
 
#18 ·
The deformed frontal cortex is very significant, which probably explains that apparent inability to deeply bond with other humans in a "normal" sexual or intimate way.

Also excellent point about hunting. I definitely thought about that with Bundy at least originally being a peeper. He was learning to stalk his prey.
 
#21 ·
Some researchers believe that the three main components needed in the making of a serial killer are mental illness, brain damage, and an abusive childhood. None of these factors by itself can be blamed to cause the level of pathology needed to commit such atrocities, but together they add fuel to the fire.
 
#35 ·
Here's an article if you are interested: Sabbatini, RME: The Psychopath's Brain. Tormented Souls, Diseased Brains

The non-psychopathic majority who doesn't kill being unable to figure out or to imagine HOW and WHY, and this constant guessing suggest, that an average brain/normal one (without such tendencies) can't comprehend this. Why? because we don't have that 'disease' or whatever one may call it. I think only a psychopath or a serial killer is able to understand another such or perhaps even they can't.
 
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#36 ·
Mmm I am not surprised that none of these people are geniuses, and apparently they have low EQ, but enough of them are clever enough that I think people look to a certain. ..prowess? They have. Some are damn sad and slow like Ed Gein...but also he was the most "harmless"...nice to neighborhood children, mostly dug up graves, and this was best portrayed (by halves) in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, by Leatherface who is a virtual idiot abused by his family, so especially dangerous because of his stupidity at the hands of the crueler, average family members. The genetic link was also suggested 30-40 years later in the latest Chainsaw, with the granddaughter who is a normal girl who works as a butcher, but makes art from the animal bones, suggesting again the primitive feature of such behavior.

But the Zodiac and "smarter" serial killers suggest it's not just a matter of an animal nature, especially since there are low IQ individuals who are excessively kind, the complete opposite, a fool for others.

There's some other component. Is it disease? OR does it only express itself diseased in certain circumstances?

I am never fully convinced that mental illness is illness but just socially inconvenient, but advantageous in other environments. That's why I think "mental illness" plus trauma plus brain damage explains something. Brain damage is a strange thing.

But we still should always look to what society may be unintentionally creating...
 
#38 ·
I read somewhere that many of them, as children, even tortured animals. If that's so, hard to argue that it was anything in their adult life that somehow turned them away from being loving sweet caring people.
 
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#42 ·
From what I have researched, serial killers are 99% of the time considered to be an extreme variant of the psychopathic personality.
In other words, abnormalities in the stress/cortisol system (hence the inability to comprehend fear), a raised testosterone-to-cortisol ratio (hence the dominant like behaviour), and most importantly, a dysfunction of the Thyroid axis (elevated T3, which is what leads to impulsive violent behaviour).
More successful variants like Ted Bundy are able to intelligently determine how to satisfy such violent impulses with minimal threat of consequence.

Do bear in mind, the label of 'serial killer' is vastly different to 'mass murderer' which is linked more to negativistic or even psychotic disorders.
 
#43 ·
I really dislike the dehumanization of "psychopaths" (a term which many people with ASPD consider to be a slur, and no wonder). I doubt my saying that will change anything here, but I wish people would reconsider using the term so loosely. When someone is a psychopath, they cease to be human to society. They are a person. Why society so casually forgets the personhood of people I'll never understand, but it does and needs reminding.

Serial killers, however - people who have actively killed other human beings - I think are on a different plain. I'm not quite sure how I feel about serial killers and regard towards serial killers. I also hate the dehumanization of serial killers - which of course is rampant - and I disagree with the death penalty for serial killers, but I do understand people being upset by serial killers. Naturally. They hurt countless people. And obviously they ended the lives of many.

I'm not sure what makes a person a serial killer. I imagine it's a combination of extreme numbness to the humanity and reality of existence of others combined with extremely emotionally terrible conditions. But I have nothing to back that up apart from the things I've picked up from the unfortunate abundance of news / information floating around about serial killers.
 
#50 ·
@Thalassa I can't agree to that. It's inhumane to refer to anyone as "an animal with rabies" that needs to be "put down". I recognize that you probably see your argument as logical, but to me it is unethical. I have participated in "debates" regarding the humanity of people with personality disorders before, and have left these debates; I know I cannot emotionally handle trying to prove someone's humanity. To me, it just is. "Psychopath" (which, again, is a slur) or not. That's all I can really say here. I understand that most people here are good people trying to make the arguments they think best, but to me they are ableist and incomprehensible and for that reason I cannot argue against them. I am sorry I have no better defense than that, or if I come across as insulting... I know that people mean no harm here, but without meaning to these words are harmful, and... Yes, it's just best that I do not engage in this conversation further. My apologies.
 
#51 ·
Ok. I used to think like you as a teenager, but in my adult life I understand that attitude to be the sort of thing like. ..projecting yourself onto an animal or object. You're projecting your own humanity on to a person who probably wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. In fact if left alone as a free man with you, they might actually set you on fire. Furthermore serial killers are sometimes murdered by other prisoners, not by the state, and many of those prisoners surely have personality disorders themselves. I think it's wildly unhelpful to lump serial killers in with people who have mild to moderate personality disorders who are generally not dangerous, too.
 
#52 ·
@Thalassa I've met people who would actually set me on fire. In many ways I have been set on fire by people who considered it absolutely okay. I know there are people in this world who do not care at all for others. Trust me. I know people like this, and I have been greatly damaged by them. I still don't think that's any reason to deny them the humanity that they were ensured at their birth.

I recognize that my words have no logos. I'm going to have to find a way to argue this undeniable and unsinkable humanity I think every one belonging to our species has. Maybe before I get there I will take your path and go to the other side of this argument. Given my experiences I do not think that I will, but honestly who can predict the path of one's opinions. I will leave now, as I have no logical argument, but... I still don't think the reasons you are listing are any justification to regard someone as inhuman. There is no justification to do that.
 
#53 ·
Ah but you see, I love animals. So even one I see as an inhuman animal, I wouldn't recommend that we torture it for no good reason. We dispose of it quickly and humanely. It is actually quite difficult for people to even regard such a person even as an animal though, because animals are not sadistic generally. Generally animals kill for food and territory, out of fear. The sadist sets you on fire for his own pleasure. I actually believe it is sick and wrong to identify too strongly with a psychopath, serial killer or spree killer, as it sets you up to identify with an abuser, and through this vehicle take on the persona of either abuser or victim yourself. It's one thing to agree that we shouldn't senselessly harm other humans, it's another thing entirely to put other people in danger to allow a psychopath to live. Ted Bundy was actually assured such human rights that he actually took a wife and sired a child in prison. Does that fill your heart with gladness? It certainly doesn't mine, imagine growing up the child of Ted Bundy or the genes they carry.
 
#56 · (Edited)
Funny thing is, even amongst psychopaths, serial killers are truly a rarity. Have a read of the book 'Without Conscience' by Dr Robert Hare to get a better impression.
In a video on Youtube, psychologist Frank Ochberg says that a serial killer requires 3 components: lack of conscience, sadism, and narcissism. And it isn't always environmentally triggered.
I believe even Ted Bundy showed very disturbing signs at a very young age.

Even if you knew a child was genetically predisposed, I truly believe the only beneficial form of nurture is to restrict any kind of environmental trigger, which effectively means raising them in a very desolate environment.
 
#58 ·
@Thalassa You misunderstand me. It was never my meaning that one should put themselves in the shoes of people who have no empathy. Empathy is my world. I could never personally identify with someone who does not have it. I can't even relate to most characters in books who do not show what I consider true kindness. My perspective that we should identify people as human has little to do with empathy to me and more with just recognizing that they are people and do not deserve to be treated as they may have treated us. I understand that many people disagree with me here for their personal views, but I still go by the principle that one should not "fight fire with fire".

What's more, as someone who has been literally nearly killed and tortured by people who got pleasure from my pain, I can never empathize with those people. They are bad people. Truly bad people. But I personally would not want to ever treat them as they treated me. They deserve punishment. And at this time I am sad to say that I truly, truly hate them. It's very sad to me, as a person who hates hatred, but hatred for these people is something I am currently suffering from. They are bad, and I will never, ever be able to put myself in their shoes and justify what they did to me. It is impossible. But my recognition of their humanity, what I mean here (I think perhaps we could have different concepts of what it means to identify someone as human) is not that we should empathize with them, but rather give them what all humans deserve. That we should give them what they did not give us. (I understand that you might not agree with this, very possibly due to your own experiences, but with my experiences this is how I feel on the matter.)

@AmandaLee I never meant to offend you, and I apologize that I did. I am not saying that what your abusers did to you was right. My saying that the people you refer to as "psychopaths" are human does not mean they they are good people and not deserving of punishment. I hope with all my heart that you receive justice for what they did wrong to you, and I am sorry you had to experience it.

You say you hope that I am only young. The fact is I am not only young. My insistence that we recognize first that all people are people in any situation, however drastic, comes from my own extremely traumatic experiences of being abused by people who gained pleasure from my pain. Before then, I had grown up watching my family members be nearly killed by people who also gained pleasure from their pain in domestically violent situations. I know firsthand what happens when someone removes the humanity of another person. While my abusers did that to me, and I would spit on their graves if I happened to come across them, I do not find it fitting to take their humanity from them. They did that to me. But they were not right to do it. My doing that does not make me right either, regardless of how they treated me and how I might think they deserve that. Perhaps you deal with it differently, but from what I have experienced I have emerged with the view that dehumanization is never the answer. Because that is what I see as one of the roots of all evil at human hands in our world. You have emerged from your experiences differently and while I do hope your different perspective does not hurt people I can respect it. As survivors, I think we should be allowed to cope with it however we can. I apologize if I came across as not respectful to your experiences; I can assure you that was not at all my intention and, as I did you on the topic about Asexuality, you completely misunderstood what I was implying. However, I recognize that was my fault for not being clearer about it.

I would also like to not that with this described, dehumanization is obviously a very personal issue for me. I get very heated when discussing it - and yes, perhaps irrational to those who do not agree with me due to their own experiences. To be honest, this entire discussion has been very triggering to me. I would appreciate it greatly if I was no longer involved in it, but I did want to clarify what I meant and try to alleviate the offense that I unintentionally caused the two of you. You may still misunderstand me, and I can not really do much about that beyond this post, but I hope that this perhaps gave you more understanding in what I meant and why this issue of dehumanization is so important to me as a trauma survivor and lifelong witness to abuse.

(To reiterate - please do not tag me or quote me after this message. Please stop responding to my posts here. This topic has brought great distress to me, as defending the humanity of people and this concept of universal humanity for every member of the human species is my core coping mechanism for my trauma. This topic brought me so many flashbacks, so many tears, so much crying. You did not know that, either of you, but I would appreciate it if you did me the kindness of not contacting me further with more of this debating with me now that you have the understanding that this issue is very personal to me and discussion of it is very harmful to my health. I also apologize if the misunderstandings my words evoked within you caused any of these same symptoms within you. That is mainly why I did choose to respond again. I want you to know that in no way do I think your abusers were in the right, and while I do not know your situations I hope dearly that those who abused you are brought to justice and never hurt you again. I may regard them as human, but I know already from what you are described that they are truly Bad People. I hope their immeasurably terrible karma finds them and reflects that. I apologize very much that I did not make this clear and seemed to be defending your abusers in no way was that my intent.)

(I'm sorry for what to you I'm sure seemed like my irrationality here. It was more than that, but... I am leaving now. I hope that you both take care.)
 
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