Personality Cafe banner
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been going back and forth between this for a long time, because I see a lot of 4 traits in myself but I'm absolutely horrible at classifying myself because I know myself too well and not well enough at all, so I find it difficult to discover what the true core of my motivations, actions, and behavior is.

Some things I see in myself that are decidedly 4-esque:
- I'm infatuated with art in all forms
- I'm very sentimental, to the point of feeling it physically
- I have a somewhat idealistic view of the world (which contrasts with my simultaneously harsh worldview)
- I sometimes have stages where I wish I could just escape
- I'm very passionate about beauty and things that are aesthetically appealing
- I'm vain and dedicated to my own appearance
- I care a little too much what other people think about me
- I'm very preoccupied with my image
- I feel emotions very strongly, sometimes to the point of feeling like they're collapsing in on me
- One of my worst fears is being irrelevant and insignificant (one of my goals before I die is to have a Wikipedia page about me, heh)
- I fantasize a lot - however, even in my idealistic fantasies, I give the "perfect me" some flaws because true perfection is boring and shows no individuality

Some things that are not 4-like:
- I'm a very logical, level-headed person, though I have my moments
- I prize rationality over my own personal feelings
- I can't read how other people are feeling -- I can hardly even read how I feel most of the time
- I'm aggressive at times
- I have a skewed sense of self
- I can be very manipulative and not feel inauthentic for it; I lie pretty often to shift blame off of myself

Also, not sure if this is 4-like or non-4-like, but I find it exceedingly hard to "be myself" around other people. Perhaps it's because I feel my "true self" is unworthy of being shown off, or I'm not sure how to express it, but I tend to hide my weirdness and sometimes insist on following social norms and then I take a step back and look at my behavior and think...why? Why do I care so much what other people think of me? Why can't I just be myself?

When I do decide to "be myself", though, people end up not liking me. Partially because I don't bullshit, partially because I have a deadpan snark sense of humor, partially because I intimidate other people for some reason.

Anyways, yep - do I sound like a 4 to you, or some other type?
Please bear in mind that I am an INTJ, and if you believe in combining the two theories, that could definitely have some significant effect on my personality. I do feel fairly well connected to Fi for an INTJ, but I will almost always choose rationality over feeling, though I do my best to combine the two because I don't think emotions are inherently irrational.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mariahj

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I never got back to you on your thread because I was preoccupied with school at the time...Now I'm out, but I forgot, sorry. Regardless, I still think you have a lot of 4 in you wherever it is



I've been going back and forth between this for a long time, because I see a lot of 4 traits in myself but I'm absolutely horrible at classifying myself because I know myself too well and not well enough at all, so I find it difficult to discover what the true core of my motivations, actions, and behavior is.

Some things I see in myself that are decidedly 4-esque:
- I'm infatuated with art in all forms
- I'm very sentimental, to the point of feeling it physically
- I have a somewhat idealistic view of the world (which contrasts with my simultaneously harsh worldview)
- I sometimes have stages where I wish I could just escape
- I'm very passionate about beauty and things that are aesthetically appealing
- I'm vain and dedicated to my own appearance
- I care a little too much what other people think about me
- I'm very preoccupied with my image
- I feel emotions very strongly, sometimes to the point of feeling like they're collapsing in on me
- One of my worst fears is being irrelevant and insignificant (one of my goals before I die is to have a Wikipedia page about me, heh)
- I fantasize a lot - however, even in my idealistic fantasies, I give the "perfect me" some flaws because true perfection is boring and shows no individuality

Some things that are not 4-like:
- I'm a very logical, level-headed person, though I have my moments
- I prize rationality over my own personal feelings
- I can't read how other people are feeling -- I can hardly even read how I feel most of the time
- I'm aggressive at times
- I have a skewed sense of self
- I can be very manipulative and not feel inauthentic for it; I lie pretty often to shift blame off of myself

Also, not sure if this is 4-like or non-4-like, but I find it exceedingly hard to "be myself" around other people. Perhaps it's because I feel my "true self" is unworthy of being shown off, or I'm not sure how to express it, but I tend to hide my weirdness and sometimes insist on following social norms and then I take a step back and look at my behavior and think...why? Why do I care so much what other people think of me? Why can't I just be myself?

When I do decide to "be myself", though, people end up not liking me. Partially because I don't bullshit, partially because I have a deadpan snark sense of humor, partially because I intimidate other people for some reason.

Anyways, yep - do I sound like a 4 to you, or some other type?
Please bear in mind that I am an INTJ, and if you believe in combining the two theories, that could definitely have some significant effect on my personality. I do feel fairly well connected to Fi for an INTJ, but I will almost always choose rationality over feeling, though I do my best to combine the two because I don't think emotions are inherently irrational.
I suppose it's down to why's...Particularly, why are you infatuated with art, what does it do for you? What kind of escape are you talking about and what are you wanting to escape? What does your preoccupation with your image and appearance drive you to do? What's your relationship with your emotions? And what do the fantasies do for you? When you imagine people looking at you, what do you feel and what do you want them to feel/see?

I can relate to you on levelheadedness sometimes. Sometimes I feel detached from my emotions, like I'm observing and not being truly affected as I'm holding myself back or I have to take more time to work through them. But it might have more to do with other fixes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I never got back to you on your thread because I was preoccupied with school at the time...Now I'm out, but I forgot, sorry. Regardless, I still think you have a lot of 4 in you wherever it is





I suppose it's down to why's...Particularly, why are you infatuated with art, what does it do for you? What kind of escape are you talking about and what are you wanting to escape? What does your preoccupation with your image and appearance drive you to do? What's your relationship with your emotions? And what do the fantasies do for you? When you imagine people looking at you, what do you feel and what do you want them to feel/see?

I can relate to you on levelheadedness sometimes. Sometimes I feel detached from my emotions, like I'm observing and not being truly affected as I'm holding myself back or I have to take more time to work through them. But it might have more to do with other fixes
Don't worry about it.

Art -- music in particular -- has always been my favorite thing. I'm really obsessed with beauty and I enjoy surrounding myself with beautiful things. Visual art is so expressive, especially surrealism and abstract art; music is something that can change my mood no matter what, something I want to devote my life to; written word is incomparably lovely, I'm a big fan of literature and poetry.

I'm talking about emotional escape -- I want to escape from the endless difficulties and worries that pour down on me. When I'm upset, I don't know how to deal with it, so I have to channel it into something else and often that something else is music. When I'm at my lowest, I put in my earbuds and turn my lights off and shut the rest of the world out. It's the one thing that can make me truly happy again.

My preoccupation with my image makes me rather meticulous when it comes to my appearance. I'm almost always very visually put-together, color coordinated, made up and all that jazz. I suppose I want to look "cool", I want people to admire me and aspire to be friends with me.

I feel like I've already talked a fair amount about my relationship with my emotions. Sometimes they're strong, sometimes they're not. I hate showing them to other people, more than anything; I know it's a thinker stereotype to not really have any emotions whatsoever but that's not the case with me, it's just that I usually only show a small, calculated amount of emotions to other people unless something happens to really make me snap. And even then, the primary emotion I'll show to other people is anger.

Fantasizing has been something I've done since I was very, very young...it's kind of cathartic and, again, provides escape. Although it provides less escape from situations and more escape from just being me. Sometimes I get overwhelmed with myself.

I want people who observe me to think of me as cool, talented, intelligent; the things I admire other people for. Ideally, I want people to be a little bit afraid of me, not to the point of hatred but to the point of putting me on a 'cool pedestal' in their head (which I have a tendency to do to others).

I can't really relate to the detachment, but I do filter my emotions through logic most of the time. I only allow myself to emote freely on very rare occasions. Even if I feel an inkling of some strong feeling, I ask myself if it makes sense before I let myself really experience it.

(Sorry if this is incoherent, I'm having difficulty keeping my eyes open)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vaka

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
Seriously, am I one of you weirdos or not?
I BET YOU'D LIKE THAt, WOULDN'T YOU?
I've been going back and forth between this for a long time, because I see a lot of 4 traits in myself but I'm absolutely horrible at classifying myself because I know myself too well and not well enough at all, so I find it difficult to discover what the true core of my motivations, actions, and behavior is.

Some things I see in myself that are decidedly 4-esque:
- I'm infatuated with art in all forms
- I'm very sentimental, to the point of feeling it physically
- I have a somewhat idealistic view of the world (which contrasts with my simultaneously harsh worldview)
- I sometimes have stages where I wish I could just escape
- I'm very passionate about beauty and things that are aesthetically appealing
- I'm vain and dedicated to my own appearance
- I care a little too much what other people think about me
- I'm very preoccupied with my image
- I feel emotions very strongly, sometimes to the point of feeling like they're collapsing in on me
- One of my worst fears is being irrelevant and insignificant (one of my goals before I die is to have a Wikipedia page about me, heh)
- I fantasize a lot - however, even in my idealistic fantasies, I give the "perfect me" some flaws because true perfection is boring and shows no individuality

Some things that are not 4-like:
- I'm a very logical, level-headed person, though I have my moments
- I prize rationality over my own personal feelings
- I can't read how other people are feeling -- I can hardly even read how I feel most of the time
- I'm aggressive at times
- I have a skewed sense of self
- I can be very manipulative and not feel inauthentic for it; I lie pretty often to shift blame off of myself

Also, not sure if this is 4-like or non-4-like, but I find it exceedingly hard to "be myself" around other people. Perhaps it's because I feel my "true self" is unworthy of being shown off, or I'm not sure how to express it, but I tend to hide my weirdness and sometimes insist on following social norms and then I take a step back and look at my behavior and think...why? Why do I care so much what other people think of me? Why can't I just be myself?

When I do decide to "be myself", though, people end up not liking me. Partially because I don't bullshit, partially because I have a deadpan snark sense of humor, partially because I intimidate other people for some reason.

Anyways, yep - do I sound like a 4 to you, or some other type?
Please bear in mind that I am an INTJ, and if you believe in combining the two theories, that could definitely have some significant effect on my personality. I do feel fairly well connected to Fi for an INTJ, but I will almost always choose rationality over feeling, though I do my best to combine the two because I don't think emotions are inherently irrational.
Sounds Fourish to me but you've got to look at your motivations behind why you do things. The rest of these stereotypes don't really matter.

For the record, being a Four has nothing to do how logical you are, or even how emotional you are.Though there are relevant patterns in how emotions are generally handled, I think. Fours can be perfectly aggressive. You can live in your own head a lot of the time but then be aggressive when you do actually interact. Fours can't always read others - in fact a lot of the time this can be part of Fours feeling disconnected and misunderstood/misunderstanding of others. Fours OFTEN if not USUALLY have a skewed perception of self. etc etc etc.

You say you are very concerned with your image. Maybe talk more about that. I see some Three stuff as well as some Four stuff when you've talked about it so far. I would go into more detail but I have taken my benzos and must go sleep now zzzz
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
Don't worry about it.

Art -- music in particular -- has always been my favorite thing. I'm really obsessed with beauty and I enjoy surrounding myself with beautiful things. Visual art is so expressive, especially surrealism and abstract art; music is something that can change my mood no matter what, something I want to devote my life to; written word is incomparably lovely, I'm a big fan of literature and poetry.

I'm talking about emotional escape -- I want to escape from the endless difficulties and worries that pour down on me. When I'm upset, I don't know how to deal with it, so I have to channel it into something else and often that something else is music. When I'm at my lowest, I put in my earbuds and turn my lights off and shut the rest of the world out. It's the one thing that can make me truly happy again.

My preoccupation with my image makes me rather meticulous when it comes to my appearance. I'm almost always very visually put-together, color coordinated, made up and all that jazz. I suppose I want to look "cool", I want people to admire me and aspire to be friends with me.

I feel like I've already talked a fair amount about my relationship with my emotions. Sometimes they're strong, sometimes they're not. I hate showing them to other people, more than anything; I know it's a thinker stereotype to not really have any emotions whatsoever but that's not the case with me, it's just that I usually only show a small, calculated amount of emotions to other people unless something happens to really make me snap. And even then, the primary emotion I'll show to other people is anger.

Fantasizing has been something I've done since I was very, very young...it's kind of cathartic and, again, provides escape. Although it provides less escape from situations and more escape from just being me. Sometimes I get overwhelmed with myself.

I want people who observe me to think of me as cool, talented, intelligent; the things I admire other people for. Ideally, I want people to be a little bit afraid of me, not to the point of hatred but to the point of putting me on a 'cool pedestal' in their head (which I have a tendency to do to others).

I can't really relate to the detachment, but I do filter my emotions through logic most of the time. I only allow myself to emote freely on very rare occasions. Even if I feel an inkling of some strong feeling, I ask myself if it makes sense before I let myself really experience it.

(Sorry if this is incoherent, I'm having difficulty keeping my eyes open)
Whatever your image fix is, it does seem it could be either 4w3 or 3w4. Your last type me thread seemed more 4ish than 3, but there's definitely more 3 in this post

I think for a 4, the desire to find themselves could be largely subconsious. Like they might be drawn to art and prone to escapism but not aware of what they're really doing. Art might draw a 4 in because it's a gateway to something essential they're looking for, not anything that has a particular concrete name, but it's something that might feel meaningful to them whereas so much else around them just doesn't. And because of that, it's a way of exploring the self or the world in a very self-focused way. I don't know if you relate to that in any way

Since 4s are so self focused, there's that tendency to put a lot more emphasis than others might on their personal and internal experiences, which definitely could and commonly does include emotion. Perhaps different people could have a different means of doing so

The image stuff and how meticulous you are about it is where it starts to seem more 3ish. Do you feel more as if you manipulate your image to get what you want or to project a certain image? I'm a 4w3 so I suppose I could say more, but I'll wait

Also what would bother you about acting in a way that might not make logical sense?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I BET YOU'D LIKE THAt, WOULDN'T YOU?


Sounds Fourish to me but you've got to look at your motivations behind why you do things. The rest of these stereotypes don't really matter.

For the record, being a Four has nothing to do how logical you are, or even how emotional you are.Though there are relevant patterns in how emotions are generally handled, I think. Fours can be perfectly aggressive. You can live in your own head a lot of the time but then be aggressive when you do actually interact. Fours can't always read others - in fact a lot of the time this can be part of Fours feeling disconnected and misunderstood/misunderstanding of others. Fours OFTEN if not USUALLY have a skewed perception of self. etc etc etc.

You say you are very concerned with your image. Maybe talk more about that. I see some Three stuff as well as some Four stuff when you've talked about it so far. I would go into more detail but I have taken my benzos and must go sleep now zzzz
It's hard to observe motivations when my motivations and actions seem to follow each other circularly and cyclically. It's hard to find the beginning and the end when they're so deeply intertwined, if that makes sense.

Image...I like to have control over things, and my image is no exception. I want to be able to control how other people see me so I have more control over how they act around me, as well as really just liking the feeling of being admirable or "cool". It's complicated; when I first got into Enneagram I was so sure that I was a core head type because I'm such a compulsive thinker, but so many of my thoughts are tied into my self-perception and I get hung up over it so much.

For the record, I do agree that I am most likely either 3w4 or 4w3, with a moderate chance of something else. I also find it very hard to distinguish between the two.

Whatever your image fix is, it does seem it could be either 4w3 or 3w4. Your last type me thread seemed more 4ish than 3, but there's definitely more 3 in this post

I think for a 4, the desire to find themselves could be largely subconsious. Like they might be drawn to art and prone to escapism but not aware of what they're really doing. Art might draw a 4 in because it's a gateway to something essential they're looking for, not anything that has a particular concrete name, but it's something that might feel meaningful to them whereas so much else around them just doesn't. And because of that, it's a way of exploring the self or the world in a very self-focused way. I don't know if you relate to that in any way
That actually sounds extremely accurate.

Since 4s are so self focused, there's that tendency to put a lot more emphasis than others might on their personal and internal experiences, which definitely could and commonly does include emotion. Perhaps different people could have a different means of doing so

The image stuff and how meticulous you are about it is where it starts to seem more 3ish. Do you feel more as if you manipulate your image to get what you want or to project a certain image? I'm a 4w3 so I suppose I could say more, but I'll wait

Also what would bother you about acting in a way that might not make logical sense?
I do both of those. Projecting an image for the sake of projecting an image as well as projecting an image for the sake of meeting a goal. Depends on who I'm dealing with, and sometimes it makes it hard for me to figure out what image is actually closer to who I am inside.

I dislike being illogical. There is no comfort in a world that makes no sense. It's hard for me to explain why it's so important because it's just such an essential part of the way I view the world. I suppose part of it might have to do with the fact that I process things in an abstract way and I need some way to make sense of that; likewise, I cannot make sense of other people's feelings without some sort of logical basis behind them.
I really don't know how to go into more detail about this without sounding like a total stick in the mud. To clarify, I don't think emotions are as irrational as people treat them, but I think that their intensity can make it hard to find the actual logical reason behind them. IMO almost everything can be traced back to some sort of rational standard, such is the way the world functions.
I also hate being seen as impulsive, so I wouldn't act in a truly illogical way around other people. Spontaneous on occasion, but I weigh the pros and cons of all my actions before I execute them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vaka

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just trying to keep myself relevant.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top