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Discussion Starter #1
Alright.

So my ENTJ BF, well, maybe ex-bf, is the most pessimistic, critical, anal, grudge-holding person I've ever met. I love him to death, and I think my life would completely fall apart without him. He is my glue to this planet.

Okay, having said that, I was a really bad person when we first started dating. I didn't think I wanted to be with him for any length of time, and coming out of divorce, I just wanted to have fun. I cheated on him. More than once.

Having said THAT, I realized the error of my ways when I actually fell completely in love with him. I stopped all the BS, came clean about EVERYTHING. He said he wanted to be with me and that he would try to work it out. Well, he can't.... I've never seen anyone hang onto something so strongly, ever. I'm beginning to think he's not even capable of forgiveness.

Are you?

And yes, I realize that this may sound a tad insensitive, but we are exactly right for each other, and he knows it.
 

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I'm beginning to think he's not even capable of forgiveness.

Are you?
There's a difference between forgiving and think it's a good idea to stay/continue. I may forgive, I usually do given enough time, but doesn't always mean I want to be with them/ want to try again. Or think that I should.
 

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I rarely forgive. A mistake is a mistake and will be easily forgiven, at least the first time.

Counciously acting towards me with in a way that seriously causes me physical, mental or emotional harm, by intention or neglection, in any way, regardless of prior agreements and regardless of circumstances, will make you my enemy, practically forever.

And if this happens I will probably create elaborate plans to remove you from my proximity, and I will set them in motion. This has happened.
 

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I rarely forgive. A mistake is a mistake and will be easily forgiven, at least the first time.

Counciously acting towards me with in a way that seriously causes me physical, mental or emotional harm, by intention or neglection, in any way, regardless of prior agreements and regardless of circumstances, will make you my enemy, practically forever.

And if this happens I will probably create elaborate plans to remove you from my proximity, and I will set them in motion. This has happened.
Seconded. I'm not sure about other ENTJ's but I have a tendency to be a very trusting and kind person to anyone I meet until they **** me in any way, at which point I make it my mission to make them aware that they have pissed me off. I usually put people in two boxes: people I trust (it's not hard at all to get in to this group as long as you're a normal/decent person) and people I don't trust. Once I don't trust someone I become very skeptical of all their actions and I'll never give them any credit. The only people I'll let back in to the trusted group once they've crossed me is people that were in the trusted group for a long time and have proven that what they did was a one time thing and they are very sorry they did it. There's only a very small group (maybe 3 people) who I've known long enough that I can put up with their BS because I know them so well. How does he know that you won't just get bored again and go looking for more 'fun' if anything comes up? The fact of the matter is you will cheat if something good enough comes along, which is something I'm sure he's very aware of.

Also: You can't justify your cheating by saying that you 'just weren't so sure' about him because that's you basing your actions off your feelings (not his). At all times you need to be aware that the other person's feelings are just as valid as yours and that under no circumstances should you connect with someone else prior to ending things with them, regardless of the length of time you've been seeing them...You said he knows you guys are perfect... maybe that's what he thought when he first met you (ENTJ's can be very quick to like someone if they seem right for them) and you cheating on him was worse on him than it was on you.

This isn't a matter of ENTJ's not being able to forgive, it's more of a matter of ENTJ's being protective of themselves and not wanting to be ****ed with.
 

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If it can be said that cheating affects different types in different ways - to the ENTJ...its as bad as it can get. We value trust enormously - once its built we're sure of its strength. And if that certainty is stolen from us...it can be enormously difficult, if not impossible, to be allowed a second chance.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but at the minimum, its INCREDIBLY difficult - and I can't blame the guy for havin' a hard time coming to terms.
 

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Alright.

So my ENTJ BF, well, maybe ex-bf, is the most pessimistic, critical, anal, grudge-holding person I've ever met. I love him to death, and I think my life would completely fall apart without him. He is my glue to this planet.

Okay, having said that, I was a really bad person when we first started dating. I didn't think I wanted to be with him for any length of time, and coming out of divorce, I just wanted to have fun. I cheated on him. More than once.

Having said THAT, I realized the error of my ways when I actually fell completely in love with him. I stopped all the BS, came clean about EVERYTHING. He said he wanted to be with me and that he would try to work it out. Well, he can't.... I've never seen anyone hang onto something so strongly, ever. I'm beginning to think he's not even capable of forgiveness.

Are you?

And yes, I realize that this may sound a tad insensitive, but we are exactly right for each other, and he knows it.
If I were your boyfriend I would dump you not because you cheated on me, but because you are such an egoist and a coward.

What did you expected of him when you decided to came clean about things you did? Forgiveness? Understanding? Pat on the back? I can understand how you must have felt - I've been trough divorce myself, and I have done some things I am not proud of either. But I deal with it myself, and I don't uhm... vomit my emotions on other people.

So you cheated on him and you feel bad about it. That is YOUR problem, you shouldn't burden others with it. If you really love him and you know that you would not cheat on him ever again why, oh why did you told him about what you did? I know it's tempting to cleanse yourself of the guilt you feel, but seems that you value your clear conscious higher than happiness of the man you love. Look what you did to this poor guy - he was living happily not knowing about his girlfriend cheating on him, now he is probably in emotional hell. You just kicked his self esteem in a crotch and you dare to ask him forgiveness^^

But the question was - would I forgive? Cheating - yes. Stupidity, lack of imagination and emotional retardation - no.

BTW - I find words "my life would completely fall apart without him" "he is my glue to this planet" rather frightening. I think that you should take a break and figure out who you are, what is that you want. With all due respect, I would avoid entering a relationship with someone who could not live on his own and needed me to organize his or her life, who would treat me as if I were his or her mommy, a life raft or life support machine. But this is just me, ENTJ-ENTP marriage survivor ^^

Best of luck to you.
 

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It wasnt a little lie, that you told him; you cheated on him;. you betrayed him. ENTJs dont take betrayal lightly.
 
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Alright.

So my ENTJ BF, well, maybe ex-bf, is the most pessimistic, critical, anal, grudge-holding person I've ever met. I love him to death, and I think my life would completely fall apart without him. He is my glue to this planet.

Okay, having said that, I was a really bad person when we first started dating. I didn't think I wanted to be with him for any length of time, and coming out of divorce, I just wanted to have fun. I cheated on him. More than once.

Having said THAT, I realized the error of my ways when I actually fell completely in love with him. I stopped all the BS, came clean about EVERYTHING. He said he wanted to be with me and that he would try to work it out. Well, he can't.... I've never seen anyone hang onto something so strongly, ever. I'm beginning to think he's not even capable of forgiveness.

Are you?

And yes, I realize that this may sound a tad insensitive, but we are exactly right for each other, and he knows it.
Er.

The way you have gone about this appears to be totally nonchalant. "Ah, so I was with this guy, I cheated on him a few times, figured out I loved him and told him I cheated - and he won't have any of it! Get over it! God!!! I only cheated on you a few times!"

I was going to finish this off but I don't know how to. I would just say that while you may think your actions are trivial it is absurd (even psychopathic, some might say) to assume that everyone else should think the same.
 

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I gave my ESTP ex her walking papers after she cheated. I know you wanted an ENTJ perspective, but it's not just judgers who find that sort of thing abhorrent.

One question though. When you were sleeping around were you two officially a couple or weren't you? I get the impression a lot of ENTJs are assuming you cheated on your steady boyfriend of a long time. Dating to me means that you go out on dates. I've dated tons of women and slept with other women while dating other women, and I've never, and will never cheat on a girlfriend. So I think I we should redefine things a little more here.

What I've gathered is: you dated an ENTJ casually, slept around while dating, fell for him, became loyal, and then spilled the beans about sleeping around before you got close; he thinks it's the most indignant thing ever, "How dare you sleep around while we're dating casually!"

I don't know, from where I stand to think that someone (the ENTJ) gets to have some kind of retroactive ownership over someone (the ENTP) is a bit egotistical, but then again, I need more details to go on to know the extent of the betrayal. If my ex had said, "I was sleeping around when we had our first few dates."

I would reply, "Me too."

But she didn't, she was fucking someone else when we were a good 8 months into the thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What I've gathered is: you dated an ENTJ casually, slept around while dating, fell for him, became loyal, and then spilled the beans about sleeping around before you got close; he thinks it's the most indignant thing ever, "How dare you sleep around while we're dating casually!"
Of course the situation is more complicated than I've presented it to be, and I cannot even begin to express my true emotions on the matter...

I was openly resisting the ties to a serious relationship, so yes, in the very beginning I slept with someone else, like a week or two into meeting. A couple months later I felt that it wasn't right, began the separation, and starting dating right away, though not officially ending things.

We broke up for about a month after which he sought me out and reestablished the relationship. I didn't expect him EVER to forgive me, but he initiated getting back together and now he is putting me through the ringer. So yes, to all of you who think I'm cold, perhaps, but I wouldn't pull someone (I was absolutely willing, I'm not trying to paint that picture) back into my life under these circumstances to put us both through hell in the months to come. This thread was more a matter of venting than anything else, so to all of you, thanks for listening.

And god damn, I love the brutal honesty thrown at me in here...
 
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I presumed that this was about cheating in a serious relationship.

If you were just casually screwing eachother, then that's a different matter. But if someone wants to form a monogamous relationship with me, I presume that it's going to be monogamous both ways.
 

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Of course the situation is more complicated than I've presented it to be, and I cannot even begin to express my true emotions on the matter...

I was openly resisting the ties to a serious relationship, so yes, in the very beginning I slept with someone else, like a week or two into meeting. A couple months later I felt that it wasn't right, began the separation, and starting dating right away, though not officially ending things.

We broke up for about a month after which he sought me out and reestablished the relationship. I didn't expect him EVER to forgive me, but he initiated getting back together and now he is putting me through the ringer. So yes, to all of you who think I'm cold, perhaps, but I wouldn't pull someone (I was absolutely willing, I'm not trying to paint that picture) back into my life under these circumstances to put us both through hell in the months to come. This thread was more a matter of venting than anything else, so to all of you, thanks for listening.

And god damn, I love the brutal honesty thrown at me in here...
Could I just get an official account of things? It's still not clear to me. So after you knew him for the first two weeks was when you slept with other people? And then you seperated and slept with other people, without officially ending the relationship??? How is separated not officially ended, unless you were married?? I was under the impression you met this ENTJ after a divorce from a different man.

The only reason I want clarification is because if he's let you back in and is putting you through hell, I need to know if you deserve what he's doing or not. My best friend ever was an ENTJ, and he would keep people who had "wronged" him in his life just to torment them relentlessly, make up, and then do it all over again. Unfortunately we are no longer friends. But I'm just curious if you might be setting yourself up for a serious emotional drubbing that you don't deserve. Your attachment to him, will be used to jerk you around for being weak. The person who likes the other one less is always the one with the most power, remember that if you're ever wondering if this person likes you as much as you do him.
 

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meh, you ruined it. There are other guys out there. And this time, either agree to an open relationship upfront or have some self-restraint.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Could I just get an official account of things? It's still not clear to me.
Okay:

Meet.
Two weeks in we get in a silly argument and I go sleep w/ someone.
Make up the next week.

-3 months go by- (I kissed someone in this time)

We had agreed to be exclusive by this point, but he was getting way more serious than I was ready for, I let him know that, but he was still pushing. I decided that I was going to end the relationship, and I started seeing other people before I broke up with him. So, when I broke up with him, I felt really bad about what I had done and told him most of it.

- 1 month goes by-]

He calls me out of the blue and wants to see me. He tells me he wants me to stop seeing the person I was seeing to be with him again.

The end.


I feel like he really wants to be but can't trust me so he doesn't know what he wants in the end. I am just sick of being punished.
 

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I think this sound like too much drama for something so.. inconsequential. One/both of you probably blow this out of proportion.

Are you sure he's 'punishing' you? Or could it be paranoia/ he doesn't even remember about it?

Is it possible that his lack of trust coming from another source/ cause altogether?
I find it hard to trust (or rather, rely on) ENTPs in relationships. For me they tend to be erratic and easily change their minds, and my trust/heart is something I guard very carefully.
 
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A girl once cheated on me.

I calmly said, "There is the door. I deserve better than this." And I slapped her ass on the way out. And that was it - because I did/do.
 

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Oh wait, I forgot to post something.

About a month later I called her up drunk trying to have sex with her again. You know - unfinished business. I knew it wasn't going to last.. how could it? The relationship was already corrupted.

Anyways, she denied, so I told her how she was never going to find someone like me ever again and how she is a worthless person (not really - something along those lines).
 

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Oh wait, I forgot to post something.

About a month later I called her up drunk trying to have sex with her again. You know - unfinished business. I knew it wasn't going to last.. how could it? The relationship was already corrupted.

Anyways, she denied, so I told her how she was never going to find someone like me ever again and how she is a worthless person (not really - something along those lines).
I've said something like that, too.
 
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