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This is from Beatrice Chestnut's book "The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge". Enjoy.

Sexual Eights


Sexual Eights have a strong antisocial tendency. People with this subtype are provocative people who express lust through open rebellion- through declaring in word and deed that their values differ from the norm. Along with being the most rebellious of the Eight subtypes, the Sexual Eight is, interestingly, also the most emotional.


This outspoken, rebellious Eight likes to be sen as bad – or at least they don't mind it – and they tend not to feel any guilt over the rebellious things they do. It's almost a matter of pride for Sexual Eights to go against the stream of convention or to disrespect rules and laws.


In childhood, many of these Eights experienced disrespect and a lack of affection and attention from one or both parents, so they decided (consciously or unconsciously) not to recognize maternal or paternal authority. This first rebellion against authority became the template for their strong rebellious tendencies.


The name given to the Sexual Eight is “Possession,” which refers to a kind of charismatic taking over (or dominance) of the whole environment- an energetic capture of people's attention. These Eights display the idea of “Possession” in that they can take over a whole scene energetically, becoming the center of things. Sexual Eights like to feel their power by possessing everyone's attention. They express the idea that “the world begins to run when they arrive.”



Sexual Eights express a need for dominance and power over others. They don't want to lose control of anything or anyone, and they want to influence people with their words. Everything-- whether it is a person or a material thing- is an object to possess. These Eights don't seek material security; rather, they seek to get power over people, things, and situations.


In getting and maintaining this power, Sexual Eights can be fascinating and charismatic. Their power comes through a kind of seductiveness and intensity that differentiates them stylistically from the other two Eight subtypes. As Naranjo explains, these Eights have more colors in their feathers; they are more magnetic and more outspoken. They have great powers of seduction.


These Eights look voraciously for love, sex, and excess pleasure in life. They seek adventures, risks, challenges, and the thrill of an adrenaline rush. In line with their passionate forward movement into action, they may be particularly intolerant of weakness, dependence and slow people.


As the most emotional of the Eights, the sexual subtype displays a great deal of passion that may at time gets expressed through emotions that may seem surprising to others and atypical for the other Eights. In these very passionate, emotional Eights there's often a detachment of the intellect- while Sexual Eights may be very intelligent, they express action and passion more than contemplation in the things they do.


These Eights feel things deeply. This capacity can benefit a good relationship, but it can be a problem when a relationship isn't going well. In romantic settings, Sexual Eights may encourage their partners to become very dependent on them or to treat them as the energetic center of their lives. They demand loyalty, but may not be faithful in return. (England's King Henry VIII may serve as an example.) And they tend to have possessive relationships not only with lovers, but, also with friends, objects, places and situations.


This subtype can usually be readily recognized as Eights and is as not likely to be confused with others types. They may look like Sexual fours in that both types can be angry, emotionally and demanding but sexual eights distinguish themselves in their deeply confident (or overconfident) manner in contrast with the Sexual Four's' sense of inner deficiency.




Kathy, a Sexual Eight, speaks:


As a sexual eight, I like to have a small group of trusted and trusting people around me. When my circle becomes too large, I become uncomfortable and withdraw. I like to be all things to the people in my inner circle, and when that circle becomes unmanageable, it makes me a little “crazy”. Others can definitely feel it when I start to pull away. Those who are closest to me definitely notice when I am overcome by people who “need” too much.


On the other hand, I seem to “take care” of those around me. My sexual instinct can make this look like I am dominating or controlling the people around me. Although I am usually very conscious of my power over others, it is often difficult for others to resist the temptation to indulge me. I am absolutely charismatic and can convincingly bring others toward me without appearing to want adulation. People tend to think of me as a “guru,” and for the most part I lead and others follow without question. I have been told that my power is like a narcotic to others. And it happens without my having an awareness that it's happening.


My sexual instinct also makes me one of those rare people who can cross others' usual boundaries without making them uncomfortable. I genuinely care about others and that translates into others feeling protected and safe in my presence. Someone close to me made this observation and it resonates with me: “People in your presence fin themselves hanging onto your every word... looking to you for approval.. seeming submissive and overcome with awe. There is the sense that you are continually looking for an equal- someone who will provide that for you.”


I have been told that I exude sexuality. I am overtly sexual; I speak open and frankly about sex. Perhaps it is partly for shock value, but it is never meant to be offensive. It is an honest and beautiful part of me and it also communicates my vulnerability. I have been told that one cannot be in a room with me without feeling my sexual presence or life force. I think it is part of what makes me so appealing. The charisma is hard to resist.


Naranjo was correct about sexual eights. Our colors are more vivid. As a sexual eight, my colors shine brightly, except for those times when my energy is zapped by my need to be both protector and protected. I feel an intense passion and zest for life. My energy is bountiful and bold. My powers of seduction can be consuming. Because I need what I give, I am not afraid to be vulnerable. I believe it is precisely this trait that makes me a gifted leader and teacher.

Specific Work For The Social Fives on the Path from Vice to Virtue



Sexual Eights can travel the path from lust to innocence by reminding themselves that they are lovable and “good enough” as they are, and that they don't need to be provocative, superior, or extraordinary in order to be worthy of other people's devotion. It may help these Eights to explore the reasons behind their need to rebel and to possess everyone's attention. The sexual Eight's pattern of being powerful and charismatic often serve to cover over a hurt child who didn't get the love and attention he or she deserved. If you are a sexual eight, and you can allow yourself to own and reintegrate the lonely, needy child inside you, you can take the charge out of your defensive need to have control over what happens and to be the center of everything. You have so much to offer in terms of your strength and your passion and your emotional energy, but you can be even more portent and present in the things you do and the relationship you build when you can allow yourself to have an ongoing sense of the innocence and purity of your deeper feelings, needs, and intentions. This is the true heart and the powerful potential of innocence. When you can bring that spirit into the things you do and share more of your energetic space with others in conscious ways, you can be truly powerful.
 

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This is from Beatrice Chestnut's book "The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge". Enjoy.

Sexual Eights



I was looking for this description!

I disagree only on some of the points because they are against my honour code. Roughly 90% accuracy otherwise.
 

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oh.
my.
fucking.
god.

just finished reading Brene Brown's book "Daring Greatly". I do struggle with believing i am lovable at my core, and a step for me is to recognize I am enough.

I am invulnerable.

And it sucks.

As for power, I have a huge need to be heard. I want to share my opinion on a situation, but know that is all I can often achieve, so letting go is ok after I am heard. I no longer want to control people, even loved ones under my protection, but I do have a HUGE drive to control dangerous situations. And I will.

Thank you.
 

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This is from Beatrice Chestnut's book "The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge". Enjoy.

Sexual Eights


Sexual Eights have a strong antisocial tendency. People with this subtype are provocative people who express lust through open rebellion- through declaring in word and deed that their values differ from the norm. Along with being the most rebellious of the Eight subtypes, the Sexual Eight is, interestingly, also the most emotional.


This outspoken, rebellious Eight likes to be sen as bad – or at least they don't mind it – and they tend not to feel any guilt over the rebellious things they do. It's almost a matter of pride for Sexual Eights to go against the stream of convention or to disrespect rules and laws.


In childhood, many of these Eights experienced disrespect and a lack of affection and attention from one or both parents, so they decided (consciously or unconsciously) not to recognize maternal or paternal authority. This first rebellion against authority became the template for their strong rebellious tendencies.


The name given to the Sexual Eight is “Possession,” which refers to a kind of charismatic taking over (or dominance) of the whole environment- an energetic capture of people's attention. These Eights display the idea of “Possession” in that they can take over a whole scene energetically, becoming the center of things. Sexual Eights like to feel their power by possessing everyone's attention. They express the idea that “the world begins to run when they arrive.”



Sexual Eights express a need for dominance and power over others. They don't want to lose control of anything or anyone, and they want to influence people with their words. Everything-- whether it is a person or a material thing- is an object to possess. These Eights don't seek material security; rather, they seek to get power over people, things, and situations.


In getting and maintaining this power, Sexual Eights can be fascinating and charismatic. Their power comes through a kind of seductiveness and intensity that differentiates them stylistically from the other two Eight subtypes. As Naranjo explains, these Eights have more colors in their feathers; they are more magnetic and more outspoken. They have great powers of seduction.


These Eights look voraciously for love, sex, and excess pleasure in life. They seek adventures, risks, challenges, and the thrill of an adrenaline rush. In line with their passionate forward movement into action, they may be particularly intolerant of weakness, dependence and slow people.


As the most emotional of the Eights, the sexual subtype displays a great deal of passion that may at time gets expressed through emotions that may seem surprising to others and atypical for the other Eights. In these very passionate, emotional Eights there's often a detachment of the intellect- while Sexual Eights may be very intelligent, they express action and passion more than contemplation in the things they do.


These Eights feel things deeply. This capacity can benefit a good relationship, but it can be a problem when a relationship isn't going well. In romantic settings, Sexual Eights may encourage their partners to become very dependent on them or to treat them as the energetic center of their lives. They demand loyalty, but may not be faithful in return. (England's King Henry VIII may serve as an example.) And they tend to have possessive relationships not only with lovers, but, also with friends, objects, places and situations.


This subtype can usually be readily recognized as Eights and is as not likely to be confused with others types. They may look like Sexual fours in that both types can be angry, emotionally and demanding but sexual eights distinguish themselves in their deeply confident (or overconfident) manner in contrast with the Sexual Four's' sense of inner deficiency.




Kathy, a Sexual Eight, speaks:


As a sexual eight, I like to have a small group of trusted and trusting people around me. When my circle becomes too large, I become uncomfortable and withdraw. I like to be all things to the people in my inner circle, and when that circle becomes unmanageable, it makes me a little “crazy”. Others can definitely feel it when I start to pull away. Those who are closest to me definitely notice when I am overcome by people who “need” too much.


On the other hand, I seem to “take care” of those around me. My sexual instinct can make this look like I am dominating or controlling the people around me. Although I am usually very conscious of my power over others, it is often difficult for others to resist the temptation to indulge me. I am absolutely charismatic and can convincingly bring others toward me without appearing to want adulation. People tend to think of me as a “guru,” and for the most part I lead and others follow without question. I have been told that my power is like a narcotic to others. And it happens without my having an awareness that it's happening.


My sexual instinct also makes me one of those rare people who can cross others' usual boundaries without making them uncomfortable. I genuinely care about others and that translates into others feeling protected and safe in my presence. Someone close to me made this observation and it resonates with me: “People in your presence fin themselves hanging onto your every word... looking to you for approval.. seeming submissive and overcome with awe. There is the sense that you are continually looking for an equal- someone who will provide that for you.”


I have been told that I exude sexuality. I am overtly sexual; I speak open and frankly about sex. Perhaps it is partly for shock value, but it is never meant to be offensive. It is an honest and beautiful part of me and it also communicates my vulnerability. I have been told that one cannot be in a room with me without feeling my sexual presence or life force. I think it is part of what makes me so appealing. The charisma is hard to resist.


Naranjo was correct about sexual eights. Our colors are more vivid. As a sexual eight, my colors shine brightly, except for those times when my energy is zapped by my need to be both protector and protected. I feel an intense passion and zest for life. My energy is bountiful and bold. My powers of seduction can be consuming. Because I need what I give, I am not afraid to be vulnerable. I believe it is precisely this trait that makes me a gifted leader and teacher.

Specific Work For The Social Fives on the Path from Vice to Virtue



Sexual Eights can travel the path from lust to innocence by reminding themselves that they are lovable and “good enough” as they are, and that they don't need to be provocative, superior, or extraordinary in order to be worthy of other people's devotion. It may help these Eights to explore the reasons behind their need to rebel and to possess everyone's attention. The sexual Eight's pattern of being powerful and charismatic often serve to cover over a hurt child who didn't get the love and attention he or she deserved. If you are a sexual eight, and you can allow yourself to own and reintegrate the lonely, needy child inside you, you can take the charge out of your defensive need to have control over what happens and to be the center of everything. You have so much to offer in terms of your strength and your passion and your emotional energy, but you can be even more portent and present in the things you do and the relationship you build when you can allow yourself to have an ongoing sense of the innocence and purity of your deeper feelings, needs, and intentions. This is the true heart and the powerful potential of innocence. When you can bring that spirit into the things you do and share more of your energetic space with others in conscious ways, you can be truly powerful.
Interesting. I'm still trying to figure out if I am a sexual eight or not.
 

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There was zero humility in Kathy's description of herself. Kind of sickening.
I did not see anything wrong with her description depending on the context of when she said it. If she were bragging to someone, or in day to day convo then sure.

Perhaps she is Sx/So like me?
 

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I did not see anything wrong with her description depending on the context of when she said it. If she were bragging to someone, or in day to day convo then sure.

Perhaps she is Sx/So like me?
She described herself almost like she was a god. It's a common theme amongst many people when they discover they are eights. I'm not a fan.
 

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She described herself almost like she was a god. It's a common theme amongst many people when they discover they are eights. I'm not a fan.
As I wander around in my day to day life people tell me I'm rude, aggressive, assertive, pushy, and bossy.

I like to get stuff done, and I don't really give a crap about social structures.

Then one day I read about enneagram 8, and rather than hide and pretend to be kissy feely, i realize there are others who like to get things done and don't care about social structures.

So.

You think Kathy's writing was "God like".

Your signature has the flavor of God like to me more than her writing.

On edit, that probably comes across more aggressive than I intended. I guess my point is I am pretty confident in my areas of expertise, and I don't really have the need to kiss ass or apologize for much. When I read Kathy's writing, that is what I got out of it. When I read your signature, I see the same thing. To me, there are similarities.
 

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As I wander around in my day to day life people tell me I'm rude, aggressive, assertive, pushy, and bossy.

I like to get stuff done, and I don't really give a crap about social structures.

Then one day I read about enneagram 8, and rather than hide and pretend to be kissy feely, i realize there are others who like to get things done and don't care about social structures.
I have no problem with this statement, but that isn't how she is explaining herself. Maybe you should read it again. Here I will quote some of the juicy stuff (Which is 90% of it).

My sexual instinct can make this look like I am dominating or controlling the people around me. Although I am usually very conscious of my power over others, it is often difficult for others to resist the temptation to indulge me. I am absolutely charismatic and can convincingly bring others toward me without appearing to want adulation. People tend to think of me as a “guru,” and for the most part I lead and others follow without question. I have been told that my power is like a narcotic to others. And it happens without my having an awareness that it's happening.

So in this quote I picture her as the Cleopatra VII were her courtiers fawning over her. I believe she thought she was the God Isis if I am not mistaken. The poor guru Kathy has this power over the masses and just doesn't know what to do about it!

My sexual instinct also makes me one of those rare people who can cross others' usual boundaries without making them uncomfortable. I genuinely care about others and that translates into others feeling protected and safe in my presence. Someone close to me made this observation and it resonates with me: “People in your presence fin themselves hanging onto your every word... looking to you for approval.. seeming submissive and overcome with awe. There is the sense that you are continually looking for an equal- someone who will provide that for you.”

Event Team Family
Seriously?

I have been told that I exude sexuality. I am overtly sexual; I speak open and frankly about sex. Perhaps it is partly for shock value, but it is never meant to be offensive. It is an honest and beautiful part of me and it also communicates my vulnerability. I have been told that one cannot be in a room with me without feeling my sexual presence or life force. I think it is part of what makes me so appealing. The charisma is hard to resist.
I picture Jessica Rabbit walking into a room and everyone's eyes shifting to stare at her.

Naranjo was correct about sexual eights. Our colors are more vivid. As a sexual eight, my colors shine brightly, except for those times when my energy is zapped by my need to be both protector and protected. I feel an intense passion and zest for life. My energy is bountiful and bold. My powers of seduction can be consuming. Because I need what I give, I am not afraid to be vulnerable. I believe it is precisely this trait that makes me a gifted leader and teacher.
She thinks she is amazing. So like I said, no humility. It doesn't really matter if she is an 8 or not, this description makes her out to be god-like, and I am not a fan of people or descriptions being so perfect and amazing. It leads to mis-typing and worship.


So.

You think Kathy's writing was "God like".

Your signature has the flavor of God like to me more than her writing.

On edit, that probably comes across more aggressive than I intended. I guess my point is I am pretty confident in my areas of expertise, and I don't really have the need to kiss ass or apologize for much. When I read Kathy's writing, that is what I got out of it. When I read your signature, I see the same thing. To me, there are similarities.
God in a forum mod sense, yes I am (I would still be even if I were an enneagram 4). Other than that, I don't believe I go around the forum flaunting any overt power. In fact people seem to have a habit of testing me when I infract them.
 

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Nothing wrong with Kathy's account. Nothing god-like about it either. She states subjective/experiential data that she has encountered which back up what she sees in her typing and variant.

The issue that others take to her describing herself as "god-like" reflect more on the judgement and internal issues of the speaker than it does on Kathy.
 

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@stiletto

do you know what stacking you are? I am curious what the difference is.

Pushing on the issue, I wonder if it is an S vs N perception. To me there is nothing wrong with being seen as having huge energy in a room, and people noticing me when i walk into it. Just life.

Maybe it is not as comfortable for an S to be SEEN that way? maybe S people see things anyway, and so it is bragging, where an N person does not notice as much, so the difference is noteworthy.

I really do not understand the negative passion as being seen a certain way. Obviously it is real, obviously it is there, and I am very curious to understand it.
 
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@stiletto

do you know what stacking you are? I am curious what the difference is.

Pushing on the issue, I wonder if it is an S vs N perception. To me there is nothing wrong with being seen as having huge energy in a room, and people noticing me when i walk into it. Just life.

Maybe it is not as comfortable for an S to be SEEN that way? maybe S people see things anyway, and so it is bragging, where an N person does not notice as much, so the difference is noteworthy.

I really do not understand the negative passion as being seen a certain way. Obviously it is real, obviously it is there, and I am very curious to understand it.
No, it's not unless you are going to think of it in terms Ne-Si and Se-Ni. Se-Ni would be more keen on observing such power influence because of how Se cognition operates as is seen in how Se is described in socionics as kinetic energy, for example. Se types all have more of a natural innate ability to expand and exert kinetic influence. Ne-Si types tend to shy away from this or at worst, be entirely oblivious to it.
 

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Ne-Si types tend to shy away from this or at worst, be entirely oblivious to it.
so...... as an ENTP, si is kind of at the bottom of my list of functions.

at work, a lady I work with laughed at me and told me I don't understand the power structure at work. She's right. I do my thing.

She told me when I started there some people were pushing me to see who was alpha, and she thought I was playing a weird power game.

eventually she decided I was oblivious.

i had to ask her who was pushing on me. They are mostly the people I respect for getting things done here.
 
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I have no issue seeing power dynamics, but I can't read that "autobiography" of Kathy's without throwing up in my mouth a little bit. I understand all about walking into a room with energy and having people watch you, not that I really believe it happens to a lot of people on a regular basis. Maybe that person is 6'5" and 300 pounds of muscle, or maybe she is a swimsuit model. Either way they are looking at you for a different reason. I can see an alpha swagger, but I don't fucking gawk at them like they are gods. It is irrelevant anyway because even if I did have that affect on people, I wouldn't openly promote and brag about it. I guess I just have more humility then she does, and I don't read her description and pine to be that person.

But hey, all the power to you others who really want to emulate her.
 

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I have no issue seeing power dynamics, but I can't read that "autobiography" of Kathy's without throwing up in my mouth a little bit. I understand all about walking into a room with energy and having people watch you, not that I really believe it happens to a lot of people on a regular basis. Maybe that person is 6'5" and 300 pounds of muscle, or maybe she is a swimsuit model. Either way they are looking at you for a different reason. I can see an alpha swagger, but I don't fucking gawk at them like they are gods. It is irrelevant anyway because even if I did have that affect on people, I wouldn't openly promote and brag about it. I guess I just have more humility then she does, and I don't read her description and pine to be that person.

But hey, all the power to you others who really want to emulate her.
What makes you think that people want to emulate her in the first place? The way I read it is that she was simply trying to describe how her type appears to her, which makes sense since she was asked to describe it. It's just a subjective description offered in an objective tone. I don't infer any specific value from it.

How is she supposed to describe herself in a humble way in the first place when she's asked to explain how she understands her type through her own reality? You don't know how important she may find any of this outside of her conveying said information.

I really do think @stiletto has a point that whatever issue you have with the description seems more related to yourself. I certainly do not give a fuck about how Kathy thinks about herself outside of offering an example of how she sees her type. Doesn't mean I want to be like her because we are the same type. I walk my own path and always will.
 

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What makes you think that people want to emulate her in the first place? The way I read it is that she was simply trying to describe how her type appears to her, which makes sense since she was asked to describe it. It's just a subjective description offered in an objective tone. I don't infer any specific value from it.

How is she supposed to describe herself in a humble way in the first place when she's asked to explain how she understands her type through her own reality? You don't know how important she may find any of this outside of her conveying said information.
How I read and how you read it are completely different ways. I infer different tone from her wording. To me she revels in the fact that she has these perceived powers. There is no way to convince me otherwise, just like I can't convince you. Maybe it is an SE thing, but we won't know that unless more SE dom users actually post here.
 
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