[Animal]

SEXUALITY, GENDER ROLES, AND THE ENNEAGRAM


What do you think of this article?


Mmmm controversy.. :angry:

 

[Coburn]

I very much disagree with the idea that eights make perfect partners for fours because they inflict the pain fours seek.

To me, the enneagram is not about feeding our pitfalls and faults-- it's about recognizing them and learning how to manage them. A relationship where an eight indulges his/her ability to hurt someone and a four accepts and uses that pain to indulge his/her own ego is not a "fitting relationship." In fact, it's probably an abuisive one.

Both partners indulge their selfish tendencies without regard for the other (and no, I don't think inflicting pain on a partner shows regard for them). There's no "perfect partner" aspect about that.

 

[Animal]

@Marlowe, disregarding the numbers (8, 4, whatever) - I would agree that any partnership that feeds into someone's worst tendencies is a destructive or potentially abusive relationship, whereas a relationship balance that helps each person to grow and find their strength is closer to a 'perfect relationship' (if there is such a thing).

 

[notmonday]

I was hoping to read about some of the other types too =/ oh well

 

[Lotan]

I found it really interesting here that type four was considered closest to the female gender role. Usually I see four portrayed as a somewhat less-gendered "deep, soulful artist" type that would fit a lot of men, too, with the only feminine thing about four being that it was considered a somewhat emotional type.

Type two is the one I usually see compared to the female gender role, emphasizing the connection between two and eight and the connection between male and female. The official Enneagram test even suggests that women who score high on two investigate their next highest scores as well, because society often pressures women to seem two-ish.

The connection between type two and bisexuality is interesting as well...I'm bisexual and type seven, which I always thought went well together, interesting that two is the primary type associated with bisexuality here.

 

[meridannight]

By "sexuality" I mean the personal experience of arousal and the drive toward orgasm.

lols. this is complete nonsense. sexuality is the direction of arousal, or the gender that produces arousal. that's it. nothing more to it.

All depends upon the idea of violating strangeness....When the intensity of sexual response depends on the alien-ness that has been invaded, it follows that men will try to intensify the response still further by going further afield in alien-ness. Since their enjoyment of "normal" sex depends on the sense of violating a taboo, it follows that they will try to increase their satisfaction by including as many taboos as possible in the sexual object....All sexual perversions, from mere adultery to necrophily, can be seen as attempts to increase the alien-ness of the act by increasing the number of taboos involved. Sex can never, on any level, be "healthy" or "normal." It always depends on the violating of taboos--or, as Baudelaire would have said, on the sense of sin.

while i do concede that ''taboo'' or ''alien'' (lols) acts of sex can result in a higher degree of arousal, this by no means, means that taboo is the only form which leads to sexual satisfaction. it's fully off base. and the claim that sex can never be healthy or normal, is fucked up. the individual who reaches such a conclusion is fucked up in one way or another. sex is one of the most natural and normal drives there exist in any human being. so, fuck off with your bullshit.

and there is a much simpler explanation for attraction between seeming opposites: that one is used to his own way of being, and is fascinated and pulled by something that he doesn't know well. then again, this never works outside actual physical attraction itself which is beyond a person's control. while i am mostly attracted to more subdued personalities, a subdued personality on its own doesn't guarantee that i am interested. kinda defies the whole rationale for ''opposites attract''. i've only felt attraction when it's clearly physical, and the physical attraction has always been out of my control. it manifests on its own as a reaction to another person whether i want it or not. i've grown to like guys i didn't even like at first sight like this, i've liked guys that have been so not my type, and i've liked guys that have been my 'type'. there is no seeming common denominator to them, other than that presence of explicit physical attraction.

this whole article reeks of classroom cliches that might make sense theoretically, when you establish a certain continuum and rules outside real human life, but have already been proven misguided in practice long ago. someone badly wants to make a point here, but they deviate from basic common sense while doing it. it's misspelled and off all the way.

in all, this article has been written by someone who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about and is utter nonsense.

 

[meridannight]

I found it really interesting here that type four was considered closest to the female gender role. Usually I see four portrayed as a somewhat less-gendered "deep, soulful artist" type that would fit a lot of men, too, with the only feminine thing about four being that it was considered a somewhat emotional type.

Type two is the one I usually see compared to the female gender role, emphasizing the connection between two and eight and the connection between male and female. The official Enneagram test even suggests that women who score high on two investigate their next highest scores as well, because society often pressures women to seem two-ish.

The connection between type two and bisexuality is interesting as well...I'm bisexual and type seven, which I always thought went well together, interesting that two is the primary type associated with bisexuality here.

this article is off base and detached from real human life. that's why it reaches odd conclusions.

 

[Purrfessor]

Well I'm a 3 so of course I would be interested as to what the piece had to say about threes. Threes go to the polar extremes to be perfect (8 and 4; masculine and feminine) which I have to agree with. I want the intercourse to be perfect: giver and receiver. As to wearing the mask and being able to switch between the giver and the receiver... I'm working on it. I think I can do it if I were to be with somebody whom I trust but it's very hard for me to be the receiver. Which is why, though I'm demisexual, attracted more to female people - people meant to be the receiver. Sex to me, and possibly every 3, is to be simplified to the connection of polar opposites.

 

[d e c a d e n t]

I think it's an interesting article, though I agree with Meridannight that "opposites attract" isn't always true. Conflict can be attractive in a way, but personally, I think I would also need to relate for there to be a real attraction (lol that sounds kind of narcissistic).

I was hoping to read about some of the other types too =/ oh well

I also agree with this. I'm sure there are ways you could explore gender roles and stereotypes through the other Enneagram types as well.

I'm not sure I thought of 4 as necessarily feminine either, but I guess I can see why someone would see it that way as it's "the masochistic type" (although guys can definitely be masochistic as well). Type 2 descriptions usually are the ones that sound most stereotypically feminine.

(Actually, now I'm curious what genders different people associate with the various Enneatypes (if any), even though I always liked how the Enneagram focuses on the individual though the lens of fixations that can manifest for anyone, no matter what their gender.)

 

[Dewymorning]

I found it really interesting here that type four was considered closest to the female gender role. Usually I see four portrayed as a somewhat less-gendered "deep, soulful artist" type that would fit a lot of men, too, with the only feminine thing about four being that it was considered a somewhat emotional type.

Type two is the one I usually see compared to the female gender role, emphasizing the connection between two and eight and the connection between male and female. The official Enneagram test even suggests that women who score high on two investigate their next highest scores as well, because society often pressures women to seem two-ish.

The connection between type two and bisexuality is interesting as well...I'm bisexual and type seven, which I always thought went well together, interesting that two is the primary type associated with bisexuality here.

As someone who is dating a type 4 male I was not surprised by the correlation between type 4 and femininity.

While, type 9, my type, I consider to be more 'gender nuetral' or 'able to conform to the gender roles it finds itself in'

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

I found it really interesting here that type four was considered closest to the female gender role. Usually I see four portrayed as a somewhat less-gendered "deep, soulful artist" type that would fit a lot of men, too, with the only feminine thing about four being that it was considered a somewhat emotional type.

I actually view men as the more emotional gender, women simply display theirs more.

Type two is the one I usually see compared to the female gender role, emphasizing the connection between two and eight and the connection between male and female. The official Enneagram test even suggests that women who score high on two investigate their next highest scores as well, because society often pressures women to seem two-ish.

imo, type 2 is the most sexually dichotomous of the Enneagram types and the most likely to adjust themselves to a societal standard of masculinity/femininity. male 2s typically come off as much more masculine than one would perceive simply by reading descriptions

The connection between type two and bisexuality is interesting as well...I'm bisexual and type seven, which I always thought went well together, interesting that two is the primary type associated with bisexuality here.

I would have associated type 7 with bisexuality as well, given our preference for experimentation, variety and voracious sexual appetites (of course, there is little correlation with actual bisexuality as much as having a personality that would be more willing to accept and/or investigate bisexuality)

 

[Praying Mantis]

1996? That's not a very reliable source. It isn't up-to-date at all, or anywhere near it.

 

[Purrfessor]

1996? That's not a very reliable source. It isn't up-to-date at all, or anywhere near it.

Forget Socrates! That guy died years ago!

 

[jbking]

I was hoping to read about some of the other types too =/ oh well

That was my hope as well. Also, it is worth noting that a 5 can have a 4-wing and integrate to an 8 which is another way to link those types but does this get covered? Noooo...... sigh

 

[Praying Mantis]

Forget Socrates! That guy died years ago!

I may or may not have walked right into that.

 

[Chesire Tower]

SEXUALITY, GENDER ROLES, AND THE ENNEAGRAM


What do you think of this article?


Mmmm controversy.. :angry:

Of all points on the Enneagram, Twos have the most potential for "polymorphous perversity"--swinging both ways. If a reliable tool for assessing sexual orientation in relation to the Enneagram were ever developed, I suspect it would show that a large proportion of bi-sexuals (of both sexes) are Twos.

I think this was my favourite part.

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[spiderfrommars]

I find the commentary on 2s and gender roles in this thread interesting. I actually imagine my 2-fix as having both a very masculine and a very feminine side to it. I picture it as a princess who is also a knight (think a sort of warlord), switching between a very girly, feminine and demanding affect, and an amoral protective warrior vibe--not literally male, but traditionally masculine. I'm also very interested in lady/knight dynamics in fiction, which I think comes from a dynamic that happens in my brain. My 2 is a lady and a knight. So I actually do understand the idea of "polymorphous" in relation to 2s and gender, though of course the idea that that could be in any way linked to bisexuality is dumb.

 

[Sixty Nein]

Bisexuals are twos.

M'kay.

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

I find the commentary on 2s and gender roles in this thread interesting. I actually imagine my 2-fix as having both a very masculine and a very feminine side to it. I picture it as a princess who is also a knight (think a sort of warlord), switching between a very girly, feminine and demanding affect, and an amoral protective warrior vibe--not literally male, but traditionally masculine. I'm also very interested in lady/knight dynamics in fiction, which I think comes from a dynamic that happens in my brain. My 2 is a lady and a knight. So I actually do understand the idea of "polymorphous" in relation to 2s and gender, though of course the idea that that could be in any way linked to bisexuality is dumb.

you captured the gender dichotomy of E2 quite nicely.

 

[Chesire Tower]

I think that it's a misnomer that 4s have a need to suffer; what they do have a need for is to be RESPONSIBLE for their suffering; big difference.

I'm extremely shocked that the author of this article didn't proclaim the well-known truth: Contortionists are often enneagram 9s . . .

 

Okay, I made that up but it makes about as much sense as any of the other bizarre stereotypes in this article.