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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm back to PerC after a short hiatus and browsing around got me thinking about Fi digging its heels in, Fi-Si loops and my own struggles with these INFP issues.

Some excerpts on Fi-Si loops:

An INFP suspects an inconsistency or fault in her behavior (Fi). So she revisits any memories and/or facts related to this (Si) and judges them according to what is dear to her, including her values, beliefs, ideals, and loved ones (Fi). This ideally enables her to recognize where she faltered, if at all.

Sometimes after entering this mode of thought the INFP isn't able to pinpoint the problem. So she again relives her memories and/or facts in hopes of uncovering a relevant detail she missed the first time (Si), and then judges it anew more carefully (Fi). This often reveals nothing new, so she may try again... and again.

Without the help of Extraverted Intuition, she can't see the possibilities that remain to her. Hope fades. Without the aid of Extraverted Thinking, she can't find practical ways to deal with what troubles her and may overreact, making matters worse, or she might fail to act at all. Her faith in herself shrinks as a sense of powerlessness overwhelms her. Yet her discouragement is based on illusions born of her lost perspective and balance.*

* Note: Some INFP report online being stuck in Analysis Mode for more than five years and being unable to break out of it even though self-aware. To escape this loop, an INFP may need to accept a loss, wound, or contradiction that troubles her.

From: Dealing with INFP Loops - wambly.weebly.com

So, I'm wondering if there are any INFPs around who have, as the article suggests, had to accept a loss, contradiction, or some reality their ideal nature would rather they didn't accept? Anyone who's had to work at letting go in order to move on in their lives?
 

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Welcome back @Wayside

I'm in a very Fi-incongruous situation in which I'm dating someone who doesn't share my values and isn't very serious about me (dumped me last summer for another woman and then went back to me when she dumped him yes I'm weak, I know). I keep seeing them out of loneliness, lust, and denial. But I can't deny the resentment I feel toward them and the loathing I feel toward myself.

I often look back on the entire relationship and feel disgusted of myself.

I'm spending the day with this person and their young son tomorrow. I feel like a monster because I hate bonding with peoples kids when we're not a legit item. It's against my values.

Haven't accepted this and on the brink of not seeing this person anymore.

I need my braces off and my hair longer so I can feel more confident about meeting new people. :crying:
 

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I've definitely had to learn to accept something before moving on.

In my experience, it happens without my noticing, probably because I was so focused on breaking through the problem. I’ll be so pained in the chest for a period of time, and then maybe some months or years later, I’ll find myself thinking, "Huh, this doesn’t bother me anymore..." as well as additional thoughts of, "Wow, I really was ignorant," "They were right after all," and such.

I notice my acceptances to faults are easier to detect when the problems are minor. Say, an argument with a friend about a very insignificant thing. I detect this by no longer feeling any pain, nothing is nagging me at the back of my mind. I suppose it’s easier to see because the bigger, complex problems fade slowly = the pain fades more gradually and unnoticeably.

I wonder if it’s similar to the stages of grief, because I find denial is what I often feel first. And certainly there is anger, perhaps bargaining, and sadness. Then finally, acceptance pops up somewhere along the way. Idk, I find it to be a painful process.

But in both the difficult and minor problems, I notice my process to acceptance is often out of control; I can have my final conclusions after exploring all points of views and still feel bothered. Somehow it’s unconscious. I wonder if it’s just waiting for my feelings to catch up to my thoughts.
 

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I've had to give up on the idea that everything had to be a specific way. I idealized my future and neglected my present which was an awful way to live.
It's still very hard for me but I try to live in the now as much as I can - without idealizing anything but what I already have.
 
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I'm back to PerC after a short hiatus and browsing around got me thinking about Fi digging its heels in, Fi-Si loops and my own struggles with these INFP issues.

Some excerpts on Fi-Si loops:

An INFP suspects an inconsistency or fault in her behavior (Fi). So she revisits any memories and/or facts related to this (Si) and judges them according to what is dear to her, including her values, beliefs, ideals, and loved ones (Fi). This ideally enables her to recognize where she faltered, if at all.

Sometimes after entering this mode of thought the INFP isn't able to pinpoint the problem. So she again relives her memories and/or facts in hopes of uncovering a relevant detail she missed the first time (Si), and then judges it anew more carefully (Fi). This often reveals nothing new, so she may try again... and again.

Without the help of Extraverted Intuition, she can't see the possibilities that remain to her. Hope fades. Without the aid of Extraverted Thinking, she can't find practical ways to deal with what troubles her and may overreact, making matters worse, or she might fail to act at all. Her faith in herself shrinks as a sense of powerlessness overwhelms her. Yet her discouragement is based on illusions born of her lost perspective and balance.*

* Note: Some INFP report online being stuck in Analysis Mode for more than five years and being unable to break out of it even though self-aware. To escape this loop, an INFP may need to accept a loss, wound, or contradiction that troubles her.

From: Dealing with INFP Loops - wambly.weebly.com

So, I'm wondering if there are any INFPs around who have, as the article suggests, had to accept a loss, contradiction, or some reality their ideal nature would rather they didn't accept? Anyone who's had to work at letting go in order to move on in their lives?
I didn't know about these loops. Thanks for writing this.

Are these loops? If yes, what kind:

http://personalitycafe.com/general-...-affects-you-years-later-17.html#post16959514


In the begining of the the third year of Computer Science college I was preparing to pass the linearalgebraandmathematicalanalysis exam from previous semester and become best student.
Then I learned about the copyrightfag privilege and their 100x compensations for using their materials without permission.

One day my school notes were like:


And then suddenly:


Angel of Justice Destroying a Copyrightfag 1 by ForgottenDemigod on DeviantArt

Angel of Justice Destroying a Copyrightfag 2 by ForgottenDemigod on DeviantArt

Angel of Justice Destroying a Copyrightfag 3 by ForgottenDemigod on DeviantArt

Angel of Justice Destroying a Copyrightfag 4 by ForgottenDemigod on DeviantArt

It was true hell. It lasted for half-a-year or a bit longer.

Before I was plagued by bad feelings and thoughts about suitists but spending a lot of money helped me to get through it. I lost my scholarship when I haven't passed linearalgebraandmathematicalanalysis so, I didn't have money to buy myself out of it. I literally couldn't study during that semester.

EDIT:
I also wrote two stories:
http://forgottendemigod.deviantart.com/art/Konrad-the-Angel-Vampire-Wizard-of-Justice-Ch0-283943138

http://forgottendemigod.deviantart.com/art/Execution-305755515
 

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Yep. Basically, I joined a fraternity my freshman year. What I've realized now is that the frat is filled with very negative people who essentially bully some of the brothers and make it a thing. I don't know why they would initiate people only to constantly disrespect and shit on them but that's besides the point. Well, I happen to be one of those people that it just became a thing to be shit on, disrespected, and never taken seriously. It isolated me. I felt like I was doing something wrong. I wanted to say something but I just felt like nobody cared. And honestly, I kept this all to myself until a few months ago, constantly trying to figure out what I could do to gain peoples' approval, to be respected. I thought showing them I cared would do that. Nah, nothing I do will ever be accepted by some of my "brothers".

What also further confused me to no end is that, outside of my fraternity, I have never ever ever had an issue with commanding respect, with getting people to listen to me, with being seen as someone with value and positive qualities. I kept searching for what could be wrong with me. It's how I found MBTI. It's how I learned so much about myself and other people and, for that, I have made the most out of an extremely negative experience. But I spent a good two years desperately seeking approval and feeling like I was just an inferior person.

I think what really set me off was when I broke up with my ex. I recognized that the relationship was turning sour, that I never was fully emotionally invested in it, that I would lay in bed with her questioning why I was even there, what I was doing, but I think I just enjoy having someone. But I remember a moment with her about a month or so before we "officially" became a thing where I thought to myself "there's no way a relationship with her would work." I think the power I felt from feeling strong enough and confident to end something that wasn't working inspired me to do the same with other aspects of my life.

I started talking to my frat brothers who actually do respect me and I can have real conversations with and told them of my intentions to move out of the house. I told them why. And, honestly, they totally agree with me and told me how bullshit everything I've had to deal with is. Expressed their own similar frustrations with the fraternity in general. But I think the most important thing is that my decisions also really pushed me to solidify my outside relationships and really work at getting closer with people I did feel comfortable around, people who enjoy my company and I enjoy theirs, people who respect and value me. Within a period of a bit over a month, I've gone from feeling isolated, like I was worthless, to being as happy as I've ever been with my life, totally confident, unafraid to say fuck it and do what is best for myself, and have honestly been dealing with having too much to do and worrying about having to turn down plans too often.

Basically, I finally got myself out of the loop of recognizing something was wrong, that I shouldn't be dealing with all that shit, but never figuring out why I was dealing with it and never taking real action to improve my situation. Basically, I thought that somehow I could just fix it when, at least in this situation, the best way to deal with it was to get away from it. And getting away from it was the best thing I've ever done. I've never ever enjoyed life as much as I do right now and it's because I've said fuck it and have pursued my interests and things that will benefit myself. Sorry for the essay. But I felt like it was very applicable here haha.
 

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@LandOfTheSnakes an INFP surviving a frat? Daaaaaaamn!

I've had to accept that while I'll always have similar issues in any career I choose (organization, defending my methods/choices) I still have a lot to offer, and when people tell me I'm going to be a good teacher, I can actually accomplish that. I can't look into my past jobs (Si), and have a self-defeating proficiency.
 

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@LandOfTheSnakes an INFP surviving a frat? Daaaaaaamn!

I've had to accept that while I'll always have similar issues in any career I choose (organization, defending my methods/choices) I still have a lot to offer, and when people tell me I'm going to be a good teacher, I can actually accomplish that. I can't look into my past jobs (Si), and have a self-defeating proficiency.
Haha sounds crazy, right? I think, overall, despite all the negatives, it's been the single most influential part of my life for the fact that i really forced me to learn about myself. Honestly, I never even realized it until extremely recently but I used to put up a wall and not allow myself to get close to anyone and then beat myself up over the fact that I felt like nobody knew the real me. What I've come to learn is that it's easy, maybe too easy, to get to know most people very well. The thing is, most people are afraid to show any sort of vulnerability but showing vulnerability is the easiest way to gain someone's trust and/or find out what kind of person somebody is. And it really helps form connections. I think I'm just going off on a tangent right now haha but I don't know, it's refreshing to realize that everyone has internal struggles and, to me, nice to be able to talk about them freely. Like I used to feel like it was an extremely rare occasion to have those deep, personal talks with people and over the past month, I've probably had more of these talks than I'd had in the previous 21 years of my life and it's definitely not by chance or a coincidence that, overall, I've never felt so great about life than I do right now. Ahhh, I feel like I sound a bit crazy haha
 

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I'm back to PerC after a short hiatus and browsing around got me thinking about Fi digging its heels in, Fi-Si loops and my own struggles with these INFP issues.

Some excerpts on Fi-Si loops:

An INFP suspects an inconsistency or fault in her behavior (Fi). So she revisits any memories and/or facts related to this (Si) and judges them according to what is dear to her, including her values, beliefs, ideals, and loved ones (Fi). This ideally enables her to recognize where she faltered, if at all.

Sometimes after entering this mode of thought the INFP isn't able to pinpoint the problem. So she again relives her memories and/or facts in hopes of uncovering a relevant detail she missed the first time (Si), and then judges it anew more carefully (Fi). This often reveals nothing new, so she may try again... and again.

Without the help of Extraverted Intuition, she can't see the possibilities that remain to her. Hope fades. Without the aid of Extraverted Thinking, she can't find practical ways to deal with what troubles her and may overreact, making matters worse, or she might fail to act at all. Her faith in herself shrinks as a sense of powerlessness overwhelms her. Yet her discouragement is based on illusions born of her lost perspective and balance.*

* Note: Some INFP report online being stuck in Analysis Mode for more than five years and being unable to break out of it even though self-aware. To escape this loop, an INFP may need to accept a loss, wound, or contradiction that troubles her.

From: Dealing with INFP Loops - wambly.weebly.com

So, I'm wondering if there are any INFPs around who have, as the article suggests, had to accept a loss, contradiction, or some reality their ideal nature would rather they didn't accept? Anyone who's had to work at letting go in order to move on in their lives?
This is why they'll need someone with Fe to help communicate this. Fi is all about search for truth, and an Fe is about appeasement and harmony, so with well developed thinking, they could provide great help in resolving this issue.

In turn, I'm sure the Fi could provide great security to the Fe when they feel unappreciated - like ''Hey bitch don't you be worryin about what dem ****** be sayins. You gotta see it your way babe, it's your way or da hi-way.''
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've definitely had to learn to accept something before moving on.

In my experience, it happens without my noticing, probably because I was so focused on breaking through the problem. I’ll be so pained in the chest for a period of time, and then maybe some months or years later, I’ll find myself thinking, "Huh, this doesn’t bother me anymore..." as well as additional thoughts of, "Wow, I really was ignorant," "They were right after all," and such.

I notice my acceptances to faults are easier to detect when the problems are minor. Say, an argument with a friend about a very insignificant thing. I detect this by no longer feeling any pain, nothing is nagging me at the back of my mind. I suppose it’s easier to see because the bigger, complex problems fade slowly = the pain fades more gradually and unnoticeably.
This sounds like a natural process of letting go where you move on once you've processed things/gained perspective/enough time has passed and not getting hung up on analyzing your behaviour. I think you've articulated well how the process unfolds and is experienced.

I wonder if it’s similar to the stages of grief, because I find denial is what I often feel first. And certainly there is anger, perhaps bargaining, and sadness. Then finally, acceptance pops up somewhere along the way. Idk, I find it to be a painful process.
That's an interesting way to look at it.

But in both the difficult and minor problems, I notice my process to acceptance is often out of control; I can have my final conclusions after exploring all points of views and still feel bothered. Somehow it’s unconscious. I wonder if it’s just waiting for my feelings to catch up to my thoughts.
Hmm...I relate to this. And I think it's still feeling bothered that prompts the endless analysis we can get caught up in.

From what you're saying though, it sounds like at some point you are setting the thing aside without necessarily intentionally doing so and the acceptance or letting go of it just comes, like you say, unconsciously.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've had to give up on the idea that everything had to be a specific way. I idealized my future and neglected my present which was an awful way to live.
It's still very hard for me but I try to live in the now as much as I can - without idealizing anything but what I already have.
Oooo...that's a good one. I can imagine that would be hard. I'm still holding on my perfect future. :tongue:

What does it mean for you to live in the now?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I read your post, though I didn't get through the whole thing (sorry, it was very long and had lots of links). I'm not sure if the response you had to bullying in primary school was an Fi-Si loop. Maybe that were part of it, but it sounds like there was a lot more going on. From what you described it sounds like you have had some traumatic experiences and suffered from some psychological difficulties that have really impacted your life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This is why they'll need someone with Fe to help communicate this. Fi is all about search for truth, and an Fe is about appeasement and harmony, so with well developed thinking, they could provide great help in resolving this issue.

In turn, I'm sure the Fi could provide great security to the Fe when they feel unappreciated - like ''Hey bitch don't you be worryin about what dem ****** be sayins. You gotta see it your way babe, it's your way or da hi-way.''
As much as I appreciate Fe-users, I'm usually intent on finding the solutions to my issues on my own. Not to shoo you away or anything. Fe-users are great to talk to and can provided much needed love and encouragement when I am dealing with problems, but if the resolution to my issues is to be meaningful it needs to come from me.
 

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That description is right on.
I'm currently stuck in the Fi-Si loop, have been for years, and it's EXHAUSTING.

I'm finally at the point where I'm starting to realize that I have to accept that this is the way that society is right now, and I'm powerless to change it.
 

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This might seem very wrong, but procrastination, escapism and avoidance, might just be the thing needed for a little while, like a bandaid of sorts, until time has made the matter of somewhat lower priority. I have used those tactics far too often, for things where it only/mostly did damage. But when it comes to unsolvable stuff, where it is out of your power to do anything, but your mind keeps trying to all the same, torturing you and making you unable to focus on other important things, that might actually be just the time those tactics are meant for.

Someone who was like family to me was deported soon a year ago, there was very little I could do, but moral support, some practical matters etc. I looked in to all from legal ways to stop it, to political, to trying to simply figure out a way to help him escape (but four locked doors etc seemed impossible). Then when all that failed, tried to think of safe ways for him to come back, through employment etc. but it also seems near impossible. All this happened when I really needed to get my own life together, I had been down and not worked for quite some time, hardly kept in touch with people that matter to me. So I allowed myself to "procrastinate" figuring all that out, what went wrong, and how to fix it, feeling it, until I am on my feet properly myself, because if not I still wouldn't be able to help. I need to be able to talk to people to help, need to be able to work and make some money to be able to send some for food so he won't have to starve etc. And I need it for me, and for my family, and my cats. And I can't do that unless pushing the guilt and questions and anger and sadness aside for now.
 

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@LandOfTheSnakes Wow, that's a really big shift you made! That's awesome that you not only got out of the frat house situation, but really changed the way you engage with people.
Definitely been difficult but also totally necessary. I tend to have an issue with not being able to get fairly drunk. I either get slightly buzzed or blacked out. Being in the frat house did not help that one bit. I honestly just had an issue with it last weekend that really made me confident in my decision. I said some horrible things to a girl I don't even know and managed to hurt myself pretty bad drunkenly wrestling. I've done stupid things and that takes the cake, at least from what I do know I've done. The issue is my actions are seen as normal and, after taking a step back, they most definitely are not anything close to normal.
 

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This is written pretty stream of consciousness, and though it is written as advice, it's not particularly directed at anyone...I probably wrote it like this because I am currently going through the process of trying to heal from grieving.

I would like to help more, but I've tried just feeling things. Trying to allow myself to feel the full range from love, hurt, sadness, longing, anger, fear, euphoria.

I have to go through and watch the delusions and what they teach me (IDK if they are delusions or just imagination). Going to a movie and breaking down and crying at random times, because they remind me of some painful possibility...reminding me of what the person or situation meant to me and how important it was. And then trying to reflect that lesson back to life--and how important life is, though it changes and we must let some things go we still have a lot to nurture and love.

Sometimes I fall apart, hurt myself in some way, waste an entire day, dig holes for myself, eat bitter words that I spoke, and when I come out of that, feeling torn down and drained, I can sometimes see things more clearly. See the beauty and the value of what is not lost--the beautiful sunrise, the kind words to strangers, the innocence of the love and trust of those who are still there.

But I don't ever think it's an easy process. It's hard not to try to speed it up, and sometimes it may feel like you are going crazy. But it's also okay to take a little time off and just try to nurture yourself. And sometimes I've needed to socially withdraw.

Then, delving into some new experiences can help, but it's a good idea to keep your finger on the pulse of them to see if they are healthy or destructive, and whether or not you genuinely feel good or interested in them.

And perhaps writing about your feelings can help you see how much they change and all you're going through--you don't have to have just one or two appropriate feelings for a situation. They are just like a rainbow, all the same light just moving differently...eventually you can see the range of them and not get stuck seeing only one color.
 

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What does it mean for you to live in the now?
It means to crush your ambitions and learn to simply be. You should still have a job and give yourself a good life, but you must let go of the fixation on where the grass is greener and be content with what you have and are. You can go towards a better future, but don't let it become a compulsion or illusion of where happiness is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It means to crush your ambitions and learn to simply be. You should still have a job and give yourself a good life, but you must let go of the fixation on where the grass is greener and be content with what you have and are. You can go towards a better future, but don't let it become a compulsion or illusion of where happiness is.
Ugh...I was afraid you might say something like that. I totally get what you are saying, but I can't say I am ready to give up that illusion.

Where does all the hope and idealism go? Do you just not get to experience the rush of all the amazing things to come (in your mind) anymore? What happens to your motivation to do anything?

Haha...it sounds so depressing to me. I'm sure you would not have gone down that route if it really was, but I can't quite imagine it. Hence, all the questions.
 
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