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Some comments in the "opening up to people" got me thinking. It is generally rather easy for me to voice my opinions and emotions to people, for a long time I was even convinced I was super open. There is, however, a layer that was apparantly even invisible for me for a long time. A layer of emotions I didn't even dare sharing with my best friend whom I am basically an open book to. These emotions often concern the core of the relationship I have with someone, which makes it very diffecult for me to voice them, because that is where the vulnerability lies for me. I am so afraid of touching that core, because I don't want to lose the other.

For a long time I have also been having these certain tensions I could not explain. I could have days of just feeling this immense gnawing feeling. I think that feeling was/is actually the result of me not sharing those deepest emotions, which then slowly eat me away. I am a naturally very open person and wish to be close to people, so me not being open about those deepest feeling is completely self contradictory in a way, hence the immense gnawing feelings

At the moment this is still a plausible theory, I am curious if this is relatable to any of you here. And if you ever experienced something like this, how did you handle it/what happened?

@nablur @drmiller100 Your stories seemed very relatable, what are your ideas on this?
 

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yeah.
I look a bit towards someone else helping me find me. so, a woman.
I dream of a woman who understands me. Who understands the good I hide, the intelligence, the evil.
The good, the bad.

What if that woman not only SAW it, but was able to understand it? What if she could love me anyway?

What if she could love me FOR it?

I dream.

I want to be loved. so simple. So complex. I share my deepest, darkest emotions to everyone, and no one understands.

Which is pretty fucking ironic.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yeah.
I look a bit towards someone else helping me find me. so, a woman.
I dream of a woman who understands me. Who understands the good I hide, the intelligence, the evil.
The good, the bad.

What if that woman not only SAW it, but was able to understand it? What if she could love me anyway?

What if she could love me FOR it?

I dream.

I want to be loved. so simple. So complex. I share my deepest, darkest emotions to everyone, and no one understands.

Which is pretty fucking ironic.
I love how poetic you are haha
 

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Some comments in the "opening up to people" got me thinking. It is generally rather easy for me to voice my opinions and emotions to people, for a long time I was even convinced I was super open. There is, however, a layer that was apparantly even invisible for me for a long time. A layer of emotions I didn't even dare sharing with my best friend whom I am basically an open book to. These emotions often concern the core of the relationship I have with someone, which makes it very diffecult for me to voice them, because that is where the vulnerability lies for me. I am so afraid of touching that core, because I don't want to lose the other.

For a long time I have also been having these certain tensions I could not explain. I could have days of just feeling this immense gnawing feeling. I think that feeling was/is actually the result of me not sharing those deepest emotions, which then slowly eat me away. I am a naturally very open person and wish to be close to people, so me not being open about those deepest feeling is completely self contradictory in a way, hence the immense gnawing feelings

At the moment this is still a plausible theory, I am curious if this is relatable to any of you here. And if you ever experienced something like this, how did you handle it/what happened?

@nablur @drmiller100 Your stories seemed very relatable, what are your ideas on this?
I know that gnawing feeling as well. For years I thought it was hunger, probably because I first noticed it as a wrestler in high school, and I was always hungry, so I ate to keep myself from feeling it. But then I just ended up being sluggish and bloated, which didn't resolve the problem.

In psychology, there is a type of therapy called Hakomi, which is somatic, that suggest that we hold at least some emotions in our body. There is some evidence that indicates that there is something like twice as much connection between nerves in the body and the right hemisphere of the brain, which is often associated with negative emotions, so it isn't beyond the scope of possibility that we feel emotions in our body. One of the tools that they suggest in Hakomi is to ask: "if [insert body part in pain] could talk, what would it say?"

As cheesy at it sounds, if you just say whatever it is that comes to mind, there's often something there. When I do it myself, I remember times when it actually tensed up, which is usually a time when I was unable to express something, and when I can figure out what emotion I was trying to express, it usually comes pouring out, and I feel the gnawing ease a little.

But the gnawing is what also keeps me alive. It keeps me moving, and it keeps me fighting. I've been surviving an anger and adrenaline for almost 20 years, and I'm not sure if that's ever really going to go away. I'm angry at a lot of people, because I was hurt by a lot of people, especially people close to me.

Part of being a fire breathing dragon, as @drmiller100 mentions, is that we need a place to store it. I've been doing taijiquan (tai chi) for about 13 years, and they talk about holding in in the dan tien, which is basically just below and behind the navel. My perception has been that I will always have fire in my belly, and I wouldn't want it any other way. But the gnawing seems to come from not having a good container for the fire. It's messed up my posture, and while I'm working on expressing my deeper emotions, physical stuff, like building my core, and working on my posture, also seems to help a lot.

It is rare that anyone else will be able to handle my deepest emotions. But they are my deepest emotions, so I need to make that I can handle them, because if I can handle them, you can be damn sure that no one else can. As the container gets better, more comes out, so that I don't have to burn down the whole village because a lot of people sh#t on me 30 years ago.

If that makes any sense...
 

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I can relate to thinking I am open. ( I know that I share a lot here but IMO it's the internet. I have no attachments nor reason to care what people here think of me) but apparently I am not at all.

I get so angry when I allow myself to express excitement or anger. Yet people who know me say that I don't express myself enough.

Sometimes, I would like to express myself but I don't because the way I raised and even current interactions with other people tell me it is a bad idea. The people I know do not give a shit how I feel (- a factual statement. I once finally broke down and told someone that I was " tired of feeling like no one cares, as if I don't deserve the same respect and acknowledgment as everyone else." he said " I'm sorry you feel that way." Got up and left. Tell me that shit doesn't cause some damage.

And, admittedly, knowing that there is no one to listen even if I DID choose to share does leave a numb void-like feeling. I've since realized that the only way to make it stop is to just stop expressing at all, like I used to.
 

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Not a core 8 but
Some part of this I can relate to you, I’d describe myself as a very ‘open’ person , when we talked and we get deep I kinda open up to them to the amount that terrifies me sometimes. But even though I thought I had opened up to them I thought ‘Ooh, you think you knew me but actually you’re million miles away from knowing who I really am.’ It looks like we have something in our heart that we hesitate to share, even discover it on our own.

Someone I met said that there’s one room in our heart that we keep running away from. We keep running, running and running away from it , sometimes without knowing the solid reason why.
For me it’s like we are the observer of our body, heart and soul being put on a stage , on a show. It’s easy for us to see the show on the stage , easy for us to invite someone we trust to see our show. But we have a fear deeply seated in our mind, we fear that the visitor might come by and look behind the scenes. Behind the scenes there are several production rooms there (Just like our mind, finely constructed to be able to fuction us) that we might not be pleased if someone gets there. There are also rooms that we , the producer of the show, are afraid to enter. Imagine you have a room in your heart ,you’ve locked it from the inside from the past , now you have forgotten where the key is, for you burried it in the most burdened grief.

I love discovering what lies deep behind the scene, I’ve opened a room I’m afraid to open , it’s far from something pleasant. In fact, it’s the last thing I wanted to hear from myself. I’m afraid, because I don’t wanna have noone. It’s a fear of loneliness , rejection and abandonment that I denied to most people , and to myself in the past. It was an unpleasant moment unlocking the doors being shutted down for decades. But well, it doesn’t kill me, even it’s bitter it made me gain more awareness to myself and navigates the path to the life I really wanted. Every light casts a shadow, as there will still be rooms that I was still too blind to see. I believe that on our journey to life we will get a chance to venture behind the scene at some point and that’s not it. There are still more rooms to see , more to remember and more to heal , waiting to be seen, remembered and be healed.

I have problems showing my sadness , negative emotions and vulnerabilities. [ Because I believe that once they know the real me, they will start leaving (A 4 thing, probably xD ). Even if they stayed, they had found my weakness and they are now able to use it to take me down. I’m afraid of becoming a baby chicken in their palm. ] But one strange moment, there was a day I decided to do the opposite of what my instinct said.

Body: Leave now. They’re trying to break you, are you going to just lay down and being smashed?
Heart: Break free! You and I , let’s prove it together. You will not be smashed, but you will be understood more. Are you brave enough to stay and prove it with me!? *opens tear duct*
Body: .. Don’t ask me next time if you’re gonna do it anyways :dry:

It’s like pushing a self destruct button :exterminate:
But in the end I was happier , maybe I’m lucky, I hadn’t been betrayed since I’ve made that choice. But really, that process was real painful. It gets me closer to the person I opened up with.
 
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I
In psychology, there is a type of therapy called Hakomi, which is somatic, t.
I found understanding with Chakra. To me, an 8 is all gut, wtih the heart being weak and quiet. My throat is plenty loud. My brain is well developed, but for sure my gut overwhelms my brain and drives my throat.

Working on the heart has dividends.

On occasion the gut wants to destroy an asshole, and the heart says "yup, he's an asshole." Then the energy in my gut gets turned loose and life is glorious.
 

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This is something I definitely relate to, especially in the way @nablur touched on it.

I'm open until I'm not. But I'm open enough that most people don't assume there's anything else beyond what I show.

A couple weeks ago I tried to broach this with the person I'm closest to. Just mentioned that there is a lot going on under the surface that I don't share and have never shared with others. Even mentioning it (I didn't actually talk about anything specific) felt...terrible. Like eating spoiled food. I felt physically ill and incredibly unhappy I brought it up (through no fault of the other person). I never feel good going there, even if the other person is someone I love.

I wonder if there's a point where you just do it over and over until you numb out from it and it's no big deal. But I suppose numbing out to it isn't really achieving the point of sharing, since it no longer means anything. Then it becomes like any other surface thing.

I'm of two minds on the whole thing. Personally, I cherish those inner thoughts and feelings I have. They are the things that make me feel vibrantly alive and in touch with the range of my emotions (all of them, not just the basic ones). But I don't reasonably see how they can be shared or communicated or received by anyone. And so I kind of wish I could also just forget they existed. Tune it all out. Because then I wouldn't feel like trying to find people I can share it with. And I wouldn't try sharing it and feel so fucking awful afterwards.

I'm still undecided on what to do. Either keep trying to find people and push those boundaries for myself, or just settle on numbing everything out until I have no attachments and nothing phases me.
 

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This is something I definitely relate to, especially in the way @nablur touched on it.

I'm open until I'm not. But I'm open enough that most people don't assume there's anything else beyond what I show.

A couple weeks ago I tried to broach this with the person I'm closest to. Just mentioned that there is a lot going on under the surface that I don't share and have never shared with others. Even mentioning it (I didn't actually talk about anything specific) felt...terrible. Like eating spoiled food. I felt physically ill and incredibly unhappy I brought it up (through no fault of the other person). I never feel good going there, even if the other person is someone I love.

I wonder if there's a point where you just do it over and over until you numb out from it and it's no big deal. But I suppose numbing out to it isn't really achieving the point of sharing, since it no longer means anything. Then it becomes like any other surface thing.

I'm of two minds on the whole thing. Personally, I cherish those inner thoughts and feelings I have. They are the things that make me feel vibrantly alive and in touch with the range of my emotions (all of them, not just the basic ones). But I don't reasonably see how they can be shared or communicated or received by anyone. And so I kind of wish I could also just forget they existed. Tune it all out. Because then I wouldn't feel like trying to find people I can share it with. And I wouldn't try sharing it and feel so fucking awful afterwards.

I'm still undecided on what to do. Either keep trying to find people and push those boundaries for myself, or just settle on numbing everything out until I have no attachments and nothing phases me.
Yeah, I get this same thing myself. It also happens when I need to ask for help.
 

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smiles. I've found a couple of people I could share with. I trusted. And they did not betray my trust.
One even loves me for it.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
yeah.
I look a bit towards someone else helping me find me. so, a woman.
I dream of a woman who understands me. Who understands the good I hide, the intelligence, the evil.
The good, the bad.

What if that woman not only SAW it, but was able to understand it? What if she could love me anyway?

What if she could love me FOR it?

I dream.

I want to be loved. so simple. So complex. I share my deepest, darkest emotions to everyone, and no one understands.

Which is pretty fucking ironic.
Yes I share this longing for such a person in a similar way. Apparantly most people just do not fit with me, it never really works. I haven't losthope though, last summer I met someone who came very close, unfortunately we had to part ways..

What I have learned (still learning as I often fall back into the old rythim), is that you shouldnt be looking like this for a person. Although it sounds hash, you need to be happy with only yourself, then suddenly that someone will very likely be there.

You cant expect someone to love you, if you dont love yourself. Trying looking for things you like, and invest in them
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I know that gnawing feeling as well. (...) so that I don't have to burn down the whole village because a lot of people sh#t on me 30 years ago.

If that makes any sense...
Cool thanks for the info Hakomi, I am definitely going to try it, whenever I feel like this again.

Yes I also perceive it as hunger sometimes haha.

Yes that burning down the village seems familiar xD
 

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I know myself very well, and I mean very well.
Sharing isn't the issue for me, but I don't want to share because the miscommunication /others trying to cut and paste what they see instead, or compete.
Vulnerability isn't just sharing for me, it's relying on someone to help me, whether that is emotionally or physically, and it is also the state of simply being with that person without the threat detection and sizing up going on in the background. It is simply being.... Suppose that may be related to innocence.
I can access my vulnerability easily,
but only share it with partners, therapists and anyone I deem emotionally mature. (Most of my friends are pretty inexperienced and emotionally immature, sharing things I feel is like trying to explain sex to a virgin, though I can rely on them for some things.)

I match what I will give according to a person's ability level.
That's depends on:
1) Life experiences.
2) Their own level of emotional maturity and intelligence. (For example I've a 7 friend who didn't see cheating on her gf as cheating because she wanted to hurt her...... And she wanted to hurt her because her gf got distant because she cheated.). And this depends on factors like 1) Are they genuinely self aware to a sufficient degree? 2) Are they going to monopolize a situation for their benefit? 3) Are they comfortable with painful topics or will they wince and try to change the subject? 4) Do they know how to respond to an emotional situation? 5) Will they turn it into "Well my situation is WORSE and I got through it"? Etc.
6) do they display subtlety in how they understand themselves? Do they see the nuances of their own emotions? Can they observe themselves impartially?

A lot of people don't understand the most basic rules of supporting someone who needs support.
1) It's not about you, it's about them. Your voice is valid too but it comes secondary to the person who needs support.
2) If you don't understand a situation then don't jump in with something prematurely, it's invalidating and shows a lack of consideration for others. You have nothing to prove, and nothing to gain by doing something dumb like comparing domestic violence to an everyday family squabble.
3) Don't trauma Olympics. :p I fell prey to this a lot as a teen and if someone talks, regardless of what it is, I bite my tongue to keep from knee jerking something careless. Last thing I want to do is hurt them.

----

Going to go by type from this section. I've noticed some patterns, but of course it doesn't apply to every person of a type, healthy or average.
The biggest factor in whether the below come into play is life experience and how they deal with the aforementioned.


Like for example. I've seen some fours here whine about "Omg some eights don't have the courage to be vulnerable", and the thing is usually those fours I see don't go very long without somehow turning a subject back to them and their feelings. That isn't an environment that's remotely conducive to vulnerability. If someone makes your vulnerability about them, they're not worth being vulnerable with and not only that, pushing further to get them to help (as in continuing to talk) leads to an emotionally unrewarding situation where you feel unheard and miserable, at best. The self absorption puts a damper in equitable sharing.
It doesn't just apply to fours though, but they seem to be the worst offenders, (yes I know them irl too, and of course it doesn't apply to all of them. I wouldn't be with my four if it applied to him).

My best friend (a 3 ) claims he understands 90 percent of everyone, but he just misses that ten percent.
That kind of statement exudes arrogance to a really... ridiculous degree.
Or if he doesn't understand a subject or knows some things he'll say "let's assume that I don't"
That's not someone you want to share with.
Of course it really depends on the three. Sister is very... Humble and objective emotionally and fully admits she doesn't understand herself or what she feels. But she doesn't need to compete there, whereas my best friend always goes on about his ability to manipulate others. His skill (perceived) with people is one of his selling points.
She shows off in other areas.
I suppose it largely depends on the particular three's image and how closely they identify with it. I've seen some in college that are very arrogant.


The neighbor I'm beside, a type 7, we were chatting since we both came from pretty bad environments (though she wasn't sexually abused). When I was talking about what happened to me she looked disturbed and loudly said "oh yeah well that didn't happen to me but my mother hit me and I got STITCHES".
It's the same with another 7 friend I have, who also came from a bad environment as well.
Might be due to that narcissism of type 7 thing?
There's an unsubtle trauma Olympics thing going on there. I know sevens who can be very lovely to talk to, but a more immature seven falls prey to that trap pretty easily.

Twos tend to be kind of dismissive and overbearing at the same time. Just very invasive....

Ones are quite happy to go on about the things you "should" have done better, or what they would do instead of you. Or they give you a "solution" and explaining why it doesn't help leads to condemnation or criticism. Very troublesome to talk to overall.

[ But then last year I was in quite an abusive relationship with a type one, very controlling to the point I couldn't wear what clothes I wanted. (For some perspective, he threw fits if I didn't wear anything that wasn't jeans and a tshirt and didn't understand why I liked wearing skirts so much, to the point I practically refuse to wear trousers on most occasions.)
And I know a type one girl that slut shamed everything that passed her and then proceeded to cheat on my best friend. She was also very arrogant about how she "solved" things and how other people "kept messing things up".
So frankly I haven't had any positive long term interactions with ones and I accept my perspective is most likely skewed badly here.]

Fives have a tendency to be arrogant too but it's different, and they tend to minimize everyone's problems including their own. Enough said. I suppose it's related to the "I'm rational and objective and I know how to do my shit" thing they have going on.

Eights, it really depends on life experience with eights. Ones who've had it bad can be compassionate, but ones from normal backgrounds tend to apply the "lol just plough on" to situations they've no emotional or actual experience with. So average to unhealthy eights from normal backgrounds aren't nice to share with. Plus as an eight myself I'm fully aware of the "aha a weakness" ticker tape that's always running in the background of an eights mind. If anything I'm most guarded with eights.

However two types that seem to be best to share with (overall) are nines and sixes. Sixes if they aren't particularly counterphobic can be really lovely. The doubt I suppose at least renders them not arrogant enough to copy and paste their life experiences as a solution if they haven't experienced a situation.
Nines are lovely. The only issue is sometimes the "I don't know" can get frustrating, though some can be dismissive.


--
However as a general rule if someone isn't arrogant (morally, intellectually), is experienced in multiple domains of life, can listen and support without being overbearing and refrains from the trauma Olympics then I'm quite happy to share.

I also watch how well a person copes with their own issues before I share. If they can't help themselves to some degree, they can't help me. For example I knew a dude who claimed he smoked the "odd" bag of smack. Okay. Fine.
Then I find out he self medicates for everything. The whole way he kept insisting he had a handle on his issues.... Yeah. Right.

That said there's a lovely list of particular phrases that if a person uses are very symptomatic of leading to trouble later on. But I feel I've gone on enough.

I'm going to just end this by saying, this is based almost entirely off my own experiences and if yours have been different, that's great! Not attacking or attempting to invalidate others, since people have different experiences overall and my biases don't necessarily reflect the light patterns that occur in different realities, that is to say, the lives of others.
 

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Plus as an eight myself I'm fully aware of the "aha a weakness" ticker tape that's always running in the background of an eights mind. If anything I'm most guarded with eights.
SSSHHH... YOURE GIVING AWARE OUR SECRETS!!

And yeah... im guarded around 8's too... especially the 8w7's i dont know so well... the amount of trash talk that comes out their mouth is a little hard to deal with when youre first meeting them. Puts me in defense mode.
 

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@Hellfire

the thing is usually those fours I see don't go very long without somehow turning a subject back to them and their feelings. That isn't an environment that's remotely conducive to vulnerability. If someone makes your vulnerability about them, they're not worth being vulnerable with and not only that, pushing further to get them to help (as in continuing to talk) leads to an emotionally unrewarding situation where you feel unheard and miserable, at best. The self absorption puts a damper in equitable sharing.
This has been absolutely true for me. It sucked.
 
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