[Jabberbroccoli]

Do other ENTPs perceive the majority of persons around them as "sheeple"? I was trying to explain this to myself, I tend to discount the majority of people as simply "part of the herd". I'm not a hipster, though I'm probably a healthy bit egomaniacal, but I was wondering if this is something other ENTPs encounter as well.

 

[ap3rson]

I think that for every weakness that you've noticed in someone there's a strength that you've discarded. It's easy to declare majority as lacking intelligence, doubly so if you are an ENTP, but the truth of it is, makeups are different, each has strengths and weaknesses and we have to work together to bridge the gaps.

Do you like jocks who walk around showing off their muscles and looking down on everyone who doesn't feet their standards? Parading intelligence is just like that, really. Don't separate yourself from society by imposing impossible to live up to standards onto everyone.

 

[Jojo354]

@Jabberbroccoli......Haha I use the word sheeple all the time to describe the people I work with. I just don't understand people who don't question and follow something blindly without knowing why simply because that's the way its always been done. We need sheeple though, if everyone was ENTP it would be complete chaos all the time an nothing would get done.

 

[Resolution]

Sheeple is a vacuous term used to insult anyone who doesn't share your own ideology.

Ron Paul freaks call liberals sheeple.
Liberals call Ron Paul freaks sheeple.

In the end, when people rely upon these self-serving, subjective labels, the only communication going on is fairly empty.

It's always better to be specific. What facts do you disagree on? What doctrines of skepticism do you disagree on? What conclusions do you differ on? What do you trust? What do they trust?

If you don't get into specifics, you might as well just say "I'm better than you", because that's all you'd really be saying.

 

[Psyphon]

@Jabberbroccoli I prefer to refer to them as "ants" or "puppets" depending on the situation, but yes, I do agree with your take.

@Btmangan I don't usually just say "I'm better than you", I lean more towards "I'm better than everyone" with the obvious exclusion of everyone else who is "better" like me. I/we don't need specifics ... it just is how it is.

 

[LimeDegree]

The impact gatherings and organizations have on humans concerns me, and I assign them unique threat assessments. For me, if a human is a member of a larger group, he or she takes on these identifiers only in a setting where that organization or gathering has been given marching orders. So, individually, in a workplace, a zoo, a bagel store, etc., I don't always consider them part of their herd. I treat them as being an individual.

However, when amongst multiple humans who are part of an organization or gathering, and/or in their perceived territory, I treat them like an occupying force, and leave the area if possible, or avoid the spotlight.

I don't like the reference to sheep, in that sheep aren't necessarily dangerous in large groups.

When humans organize, it might be for a massive pillowfight in times square, or it might be to strap a teenage girl to a wooden stake and listen to her scream as the flames consume her. I could crank out a dozen other scenarios that run from benevolent to horrendous, but I believe you all get my point.

When sheep gather together, I don't become concerned about the harm they might bring to the world around them.

To be fair, humans do nice things together sometimes too.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

No, I do not perceive the majority of people to be "Sheeple". The people who i see use the word sheeple are hipsters and conspiracy theorists . The fact of the matter is you can view yourself as a non conformist, but you will still be conforming to be part of a group of people who think the same way. Essentially we all are sheeple conforming to certain groups in society.

 

[aef8234]

I pretend they're sheeple, they usually love trying to prove me wrong, faster to know about them more that way.
But, the same "You don't know me" thing is the headdesk of my belief in everyone to be an individual.
But, I guess I'd be offing myself if things were haxoriously easy.

 

[BusinessMan]

I was going to agree with you guys, but then realized that by doing so would make me a form of sheeple. Now I'm just confused. I'm going to drink a beer and cry myself to sleep now.

 

[chittychitty LightNING]

Unfortunately, my mother has drilled it into my head how other people aren't as 'normal' as they put on (which I agree with), and that odd behavior should be held higher than healthy human functioning. All of this to the point where I rebel against rebelling, resorting to the desire for this concept of 'normalcy', despite it's flawed logic.

However I can honestly say I hate most people, or people in general. They are annoying drones for the most part, following the latest fad or new age belief just because it makes sense through 'pole vaults and loopholes'.

If I could get away with it, I'd wear a ninja mask everywhere I went and give death stares to those who look at me with a funny eye. I refrain out of rational fear that I will be not only ridiculed, but tackled the instant I enter a business establishment. And when did Indiana Jones fedora's go out of style?

 

[marzipan01]

Sheeple is a vacuous term used to insult anyone who doesn't share your own ideology.

Ron Paul freaks call liberals sheeple.
Liberals call Ron Paul freaks sheeple.

In the end, when people rely upon these self-serving, subjective labels, the only communication going on is fairly empty.

It's always better to be specific. What facts do you disagree on? What doctrines of skepticism do you disagree on? What conclusions do you differ on? What do you trust? What do they trust?

If you don't get into specifics, you might as well just say "I'm better than you", because that's all you'd really be saying.

I'm with @Psyphon on this matter.

I believe I first mistyped myself because I bestow a lot of compassion and generosity to all of humanity. I view all of humanity as equal (equally beneath me). I often feel like I'm on 3rd Rock from the Sun as I ask many questions such as: "Why? You all look the same to me. What makes you different from each other? You're all human. You're all not me. So, you're all pretty much the same to me. You're all on the same team and I'm trying to help you and understand you but you just aren't making sense. Why are you fighting all the time? Why are you creating arbitrary distinctions and then killing each other about it?"

I don't see anything logically inconsistent with both seeing humanity as a creature to be nurtured and cared for with utmost importance and, at the same time, seeking one's own personal desires and sometimes offending people and being a little impolite/insensitive in one's speech.

When I die, all of my experience of humanity will go with me. Everyone else and the so-called "world" we live in will fade into a mere memory. A dream. I try to make the most of it. I love all the life here and respect it and try to nurture it and grow with it. But ultimately, all this will pass. None of it is real--which is sad, really (but that's a side note).

As I am the only real thing, I am fundamentally the most important thing--to me, anyway. And by that I mean, I have to think about my responsibilities and my life first and foremost. If my responsibilities and life happen to be centered around nurturing and protecting the sheeple of humanity (which some of my goals are centered around), then that is my life and my desire to do so.

I do believe that when people reveal to me that they have a soul and think for themselves, they become equally important as me. However, as they can think for themselves, I don't have to worry about them. It's everyone else I worry about because they can't take care of themselves and, thus, are like children or cute little sheep. Sheeple does make sense in this way. I don't eat sheep. I don't eat meat. I don't eat people. Because anything that's less than me is like a child and, thus, an innocent creature to be nurtured and guided into adulthood. Some are eternal children in this life time and they need to guided to grow into the next but if they don't want to, that's their choice. Ultimately, the choice is up to the individual.

I believe the true reason for any arrogance on the part of ENTPs is simply at the fact that we are so frequently misunderstood and it often feels like there is no one with whom true intimacy can be shared. Not only because of fear of intimacy itself but also because of the fact that everyone seems to misunderstand us completely all the time!!!

Now, could you explain something to me? What is it about the way ENTP's communicate that lends its hand so readily to critique from INFJs? We're on the same side as the INFJs. Why are they always up in our grill? Or is there something I'm missing here?

 

[aef8234]

Unfortunately, my mother has drilled it into my head how other people aren't as 'normal' as they put on (which I agree with), and that odd behavior should be held higher than healthy human functioning. All of this to the point where I rebel against rebelling, resorting to the desire for this concept of 'normalcy', despite it's flawed logic.

However I can honestly say I hate most people, or people in general. They are annoying drones for the most part, following the latest fad or new age belief just because it makes sense through 'pole vaults and loopholes'.

If I could get away with it, I'd wear a ninja mask everywhere I went and give death stares to those who look at me with a funny eye. I refrain out of rational fear that I will be not only ridiculed, but tackled the instant I enter a business establishment. And when did Indiana Jones fedora's go out of style?

Oh so by putting yourself in the cycle of hate, you think you're above it?
...Genius!
Remember, these are your people you are talking about, they are exactly like you in almost every way, except on how and what they were raised. Insulting them would be like insulting your retarded little brother, and I wouldn't insult him, even though he was a stillborn.

And on fashion, that fedora thing?
...Well it is a leap into the bowler hat fashion-derp regression so far. I think it'll be back soon, too soon, honestly. But the faster we get out of this whole "regress into some past form of music, fashion, way of thinking, etc.", the better.

 

[chittychitty LightNING]

Oh so by putting yourself in the cycle of hate, you think you're above it?

It's really more of a hamster wheel.

I have no room to be different, and conformity is gay. So I must resort to extremes or parody, which I often do both of.

Remember, these are your people you are talking about, they are exactly like you in almost every way, except on how and what they were raised. Insulting them would be like insulting your retarded little brother, and I wouldn't insult him, even though he was a stillborn.

They're my people in the sense that we both lay brown eggs and urinate frequently, among other naturally occurring bodily functions, but we are not innately connected any more than two lions ripping each other to death are. The only people that are "my people" are my family, as far as I'm concerned. Not too sure if friends even fall into that category - more likely filed away under 'cannon fodder'. Family has put up with me, stuck by, etc, so that much I am in debt for. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now to break the tension of my drama... How fucking scary would it be if all of Earths oceans were entirely comprised of Jello? You'd be falling through that shit - mouthful of jello. ItBcray

 

[Robdor]

Can't post a picture yet

The forum algorithm is shutting my picture down. But go to xkcd.com. You will not be disappointed. Perfect sheeple comic.

xkcd.com/610/

 

[aef8234]

It's really more of a hamster wheel.

I have no room to be different, and conformity is gay. So I must resort to extremes or parody, which I often do both of.



They're my people in the sense that we both lay brown eggs and urinate frequently, among other naturally occurring bodily functions, but we are not innately connected any more than two lions ripping each other to death are. The only people that are "my people" are my family, as far as I'm concerned. Not too sure if friends even fall into that category - more likely filed away under 'cannon fodder'. Family has put up with me, stuck by, etc, so that much I am in debt for. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now to break the tension of my drama... How fucking scary would it be if all of Earths oceans were entirely comprised of Jello? You'd be falling through that shit - mouthful of jello. ItBcray

Because we're animals, and therefore have no ability to reason.
Don't get me wrong, paranoia is awesome, but too much awesome does turn into douchebaggery.

 

[chittychitty LightNING]

Because we're animals, and therefore have no ability to reason.
Don't get me wrong, paranoia is awesome, but too much awesome does turn into douchebaggery.

I think you took my lion analogy literally, when it wasn't meant to be.

What you call paranoia, I call logic. What is the reasoning for caring about people that usually don't reciprocate? I realize I was being very general when I said I hated people, but it's really more for like the hat-backwards penguins you commonly find waddling around at the mall. Not literally everyone. My opinion wasn't meant to be read into with a microscope.

Edit: I think I may understand what you were trying to convey to me. People are the same as me in that they have ideas, dreams, emotions, memories, etc. Observing this, throwing them into one big pot of vitriol would be unfair, as tempting as it may be. We may all have the same qualities such as aspirations and desires, but the part that tends to annoy me is the far-reaching desire to fit in to the point of submerging one's own true personality and wants. And this obviously affects the way they appear to me - because I cannot read their true selves through a wall of bullshit.

A lot of people tend to have the urge to wear multiple masks when it's utterly ridiculous and transparent. So when I say I hate people; perhaps I just mean the people they try to be.

 

[emerald sea]

this perception just means you trust different data sources (external or internal) than they do, and consider your data sources as superior to theirs. naivete is only measured in relation to your personal idea of what is truth and your perception of the trustworthiness of various data sources.

what if truth is to be found from the mouths of babes? data source is insignificant if the data itself can be supported logically.

and what if, in confidence in my own intellect, i have missed something or presumed something is true, that is not? the premises of one's own logic are as deserving of questioning as the premises of others.

I'm with @Psyphon Now, could you explain something to me? What is it about the way ENTP's communicate that lends its hand so readily to critique from INFJs? We're on the same side as the INFJs. Why are they always up in our grill? Or is there something I'm missing here?

are we? we don't mean to be, and i'm sorry ~ i enjoy ENTPs since their conversations are creative, and never boring; and i tend to assume (maybe incorrectly?) they welcome debate over ideas.

...maybe we just like playing the devil's advocate game as much as you all do. sometimes.

it is not meant as a personal critique, insult, or affront against anyone ~ rather, it is Ni getting to the heart of the matter...tracing ideas to their source assumptions, glancing behind actions to discover their source motivations...in essence, tracking down the meaning behind everything. we approach this search for meaning intellectually and view this as sharing insight rather than as criticizing a person. a counselor must dredge up the depths of the soul in order to help someone ~ this requires a relentless pursuit of what is actually the truth, something which Ni minds are wired to do ~ we tend to view diagnosis as a necessary prerequisite to health, and factual critique as the pathway to truth.

we apply this same "truth" microscope to our own actions and analyze them to their source motivations...and (in my case, anyway), often do not like what we find, and therefore try to improve.

take it for what it is - Ni. Ni always wonders what has been missed in the equation, and likes to conjure up the possibilities that we think should never have been laid to rest, and entertain them for a while.

 

[dippledogdum]

Einstein
-"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Yes a lot of people behave like dumbasses.

 

[Stelmaria]

The forum algorithm is shutting my picture down. But go to xkcd.com. You will not be disappointed. Perfect sheeple comic.

xkcd.com/610/

Here you go.

I was going to write my thoughts, but you know, that cartoon sums it up for me too.

 

[MyDarkAngel]

As an ENTJ I see many "individuals" as "sheeple." It's not a popular opinion, especially when you call them out. Baaaaaaaah.