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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, so I have a "close" friend name Ryan. I have known him for about 4 years now, but he was always known for lying and trash talking behind someone's back. 2 days ago we were at his house and he brought some girls over for my Crew(4 of us). I was not one bit interested in any and neither was my friend Zach so we didnt pay much attention to them. However, my friend Jacob and Ryan were both interested. Jacob was the typical flirt, while Ryan was fake... He is known to be the "Jon" of the group for being picked on the most. While the girls were over he insulted us and lied to make himself look bigger and "badder". After they left I heard that he was trash talking me behind my back the whole time.

I honestly can't say I'm mad, because I'm definitely not. I feel like he has broken my trust. So would it be a bad decision to cut him off and stop hanging out with him? I think i should, but tell me your opinions.
 

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The fact that he is talking behind your back means that you can't trust him 100%. To top it all off, he makes himself look good in front of girls at your expense. No matter how desperate a guy is for a girl, a guy must always use his own charms not make himself look good using lies.

From what I've learned with my friends, we never talk behind each others backs. One of them might say "you look horrible, what went on man?", and we talk about it. That comes out of a place of concern and honesty. And since he didn't have a problem with making you look bad, suggest to me that this isn't his first time talking behind your back.

So my answer is no, don't think you should be friends with him, because of the dishonesty he has displayed. Aren't friendships based on trust and mutual respect?
 

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There's a simple rule of thumb for people known for taking shit. If they're going to talk about someone behind their back to you, they're more than likely talking about you behind your back to someone else. Of course, by doing so he has indirectly implied that he finds your life more interesting than his own. But, I fail to see how a friend -especially one that you have been acquainted with for so long- would be able to even do that, unless they either valued the association with the person they were talking to more so than they did their association with you, or their association with you simply did not matter.

Then you have to ask yourself if someone that values your friendship and you as a person so little is worth your time, and if you are really alright with a friend doing these things, as they are going to be conditions of the friendships. If you say yes to both, then I don't see why not. But, if you do not believe he is worth the time anymore, after a four year friendship/acquaintance, then I suggest that you stop associating with him. And as unlikely as it may be, he may actually value your friendship and this could have been a one time occurrence; at the least I would recommend talking to him about it first. It would give a little closure and offer an opportunity to make your intentions for your friendship clear.
 

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Why would you even think about it, now that you've been given all the warning signs you need? I really love the one quote I read somewhere which went sth like "You'd have to be stupid to expect the conscience of a unscrupulous person to "awaken" one day, when, in reality, a person without a conscience cannot awaken in himself sth he has never had." Well, it's badly rephrased but you get the idea :)
 

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Friendship is accepting the good with the bad, everybody has their quirks. I think by him talking negatively about you to others shows he doesn't appreciate you as a friend. If you remain friends my suggestion is to confront him with this issue, let your friend know why his actions were unacceptable to you. Clearly explain what you dislike, if he continues the same behavior later on then it is obvious your friendship isn't as valuable to him.
 

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what i would do is stop talking to him, etc and wait for him to notice. this is a second chance because he has to earn your respect as a friend. and if he doesn't just leave it be and walk away until he does. we generally understand what we value once it has gone, and if your friend's being peer pressured into making comments about you, etc he needs some brushing up to do on his values and how he approaches them, this says nothing about you.
 

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I normally favour a social rule in true friendships: 'If you would not say something about another to them directly, how is it any more honest [trust wise] to bad mouth someone you care about deeply on some level', similar thinking with secrets or embarrassing problems. To behave otherwise in my mind suggests an air of careless judgement, superiority, insecurity and potential jealousy not compatible with truly significant connections borne out equality.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
what i would do is stop talking to him, etc and wait for him to notice. this is a second chance because he has to earn your respect as a friend. and if he doesn't just leave it be and walk away until he does. we generally understand what we value once it has gone, and if your friend's being peer pressured into making comments about you, etc he needs some brushing up to do on his values and how he approaches them, this says nothing about you.
I stopped talking to him but he went on and on about how is my "best friend". My 2 other friends gave him a chance and later got kicked out of his house... Also, i was at a school football game with my girlfriend(friend) Alex and I was approached by a guy named Robbie... without me mention Ryan(backstabber) he told me about how he always talked badly about me.. Hmmmm, well i thanked him for telling me.
 

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As I see it, you can do two things:

a) confront him in a calm way and ask why (this will hopefully make him start self-reflect), tell him you don't appreciate his behavior, and inform him you are giving him one more chance but that's it (setting boundaries often generates resect).
Of course, you should only do this if you care. The thing is, you don't really seem to care and and you need to ask yourself why? Maybe his problem is that he senses that you don't care? I guess that I'd be hurt if my friends let me get away with anything, since it would be obvious that what I do doesn't really matter to them.
On the other hand, if you really don't care that much whether your friendship can be saved or not, this is the way to go because it'll let you practice for future confrontations. As I see it, at least something positive will come out of the situation.

b) stop counting him as a friend and avoid him. I have done this myself on occasion, because I don't like drama and I have a hard time stopping this behavior before it is too late. I'd say that this is not a great way to deal with things.

It is always possible that he may not be behaving this way because he dislikes you. He may be insecure and envious of you. He may have been raised to think that back talking is not a big deal/natural. He may think that you don't care.

I am a bit curious, why do you count him as a friend?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
As I see it, you can do two things:

a) confront him in a calm way and ask why (this will hopefully make him start self-reflect), tell him you don't appreciate his behavior, and inform him you are giving him one more chance but that's it (setting boundaries often generates resect).
Of course, you should only do this if you care. The thing is, you don't really seem to care and and you need to ask yourself why? Maybe his problem is that he senses that you don't care? I guess that I'd be hurt if my friends let me get away with anything, since it would be obvious that what I do doesn't really matter to them.
On the other hand, if you really don't care that much whether your friendship can be saved or not, this is the way to go because it'll let you practice for future confrontations. As I see it, at least something positive will come out of the situation.

b) stop counting him as a friend and avoid him. I have done this myself on occasion, because I don't like drama and I have a hard time stopping this behavior before it is too late. I'd say that this is not a great way to deal with things.

It is always possible that he may not be behaving this way because he dislikes you. He may be insecure and envious of you. He may have been raised to think that back talking is not a big deal/natural. He may think that you don't care.

I am a bit curious, why do you count him as a friend?
I'm going with option B. I did give him a second chance and he lied and continued to insult me behind my back. The reason why I DID count him as a friend is because I don't really care what people think about me. My way of bonding is insults, but it's different when you talk behind my back. Also, when I say "don't tell anyone," I really mean DON'T TELL ANYONE. I have only 2 friends that re able to keep secrets, but he can't. I'm all about trust and respect.
Insults IMO are just opinions. I'm just doing what people would do at this time... and I guess that means to let him go. I once warned him that I have the ability of letting people go very fast, too bad he didn't listen.
 

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I'm going with option B. I did give him a second chance and he lied and continued to insult me behind my back. The reason why I DID count him as a friend is because I don't really care what people think about me. My way of bonding is insults, but it's different when you talk behind my back. Also, when I say "don't tell anyone," I really mean DON'T TELL ANYONE. I have only 2 friends that re able to keep secrets, but he can't. I'm all about trust and respect.
Insults IMO are just opinions. I'm just doing what people would do at this time... and I guess that means to let him go. I once warned him that I have the ability of letting people go very fast, too bad he didn't listen.
As I understand it, "Choice B" is pretty common for us INTJs. We take crap up to a certain point and then it's over - no regrets, no turning back. I'd always chosen to be alone rather than hang out with people who I don't like.
 

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I don't even know why you need to ask one here,
He is clearly a insecure prick,
Don't let someone like that break you down,
And those whom you care for.

You've been mature so far,
So better to do the mature thing and just leave him be.

Don't even expend any energy on what is a lost cause,
He has a reputation that is so typical of an insecure and egotistical person,
That really there is no one but himself who can change his out look!

If he asks "What happened?",
You have the right to tell him exactly what he has done and how you feel.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
As I understand it, "Choice B" is pretty common for us INTJs. We take crap up to a certain point and then it's over - no regrets, no turning back. I'd always chosen to be alone rather than hang out with people who I don't like.
I see it as a good thing, but I sometimes dislike being like this. Makes me feel inhuman.
 

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I see it as a good thing, but I sometimes dislike being like this. Makes me feel inhuman.
Nah, it's not in humane. We just tend to mull things over internally instead of talking things through with other people. It's simply a different approach. As long as you feel good about your decision, there is nothing wrong with it.

I have questioned myself & my decisions at times, but I have generally come to conclude that the friends I dumped really weren't friends. They were with me to get something other than friendship, like a self esteem boost, a wing woman, etc. just like you, I tend to not stir up things, which some people incorrectly interpret as me being a doormat. Needless to say, I don't appreciate that and people behaving like that are not friendship material.

Good luck with everything!
 
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