[James Till]

[Insert Formalities Here] Let's talk some costs/benefits.

Context:
Once I was intelligent enough to understand I was retarded, I realized I needed to change. Initially, my system for improving my intelligence was daily midnight walks thinking grand philosophical questions. Then it was self-help books that helped create a system for understanding development. I created a model for areas of growth, and systems to increase each of those areas. I changed my diet to a nutrient-enriched Mediterranean diet, and that meant cutting refined sugars, and adding lean meats instead (with a heavy emphasis on fish [gotta have that omega 3-6s]). Next, I created habits (by modifying pre-existing triggers [to old habits]) to sleep better. Lack of sleep actually has similar effects to being drunk (meaning less cognitive control), but there are many other effects because of this. I also took up sprints (or H.I.I.T.) in the morning. I'm gradually making changes like these to improve my general health and intelligence.

Alone or Synergy?
I have some ambitious projects I'm working on. When it comes to the success of these projects, there are 3 elements I have to take into consideration: Vision, Planning, and Action. I call this the VPA cycle. Within the VPA cycle is your circle of influence, or rather, what liberties you have available to you. The more you use the VPA cycle, the more liberties you have.

Example: Petting a cat is outside your circle of influence (if you don't have a cat). By using the VPA cycle to buy a cat (or steal your neighbor's cat [you horrible schemer!]), you thus extended your COI to cover petting cats.

That's really what development is, VPA + COI. And... finally, to my point: Do I partner up with someone who helps me develop faster and to synergize, or do I skip petty humans and focus my attention on my goals?

Bluntly, INTPs balance out the strong INFJ V (vision) with the unrivaled INTP P (planning/systemizing), though A (action) is usually quite low on an INTP. The INTP will completely weed out unrealistic vision while also strengthening it with logical insight. If I sought out any personality, there would be no other options.

The VPA model itself is an idea of mine, a vision. There's no doubt in my mind that an INTP would be able to help me refine it (There's a whole lot about the VPA cycle I'm leaving out here lol). There's... a lot of perks that I bring to the table as well. Such a shameless plug... xD

So... What are your thoughts on the matter? Go on lonely? Synergize?

 

[Necrofantasia]

Your vision is basically habits 1 and 2 of 7 Habits for Highly Effective People.

You would be much better served asking the NTJ about this. You want practical thinking/Te thinking. Plus they have Ni like you and can understand vision better.

 

[Literally Gone]

[Insert Formalities Here] Let's talk some costs/benefits.

Context:
Once I was intelligent enough to understand I was retarded, I realized I needed to change. Initially, my system for improving my intelligence was daily midnight walks thinking grand philosophical questions. Then it was self-help books that helped create a system for understanding development. I created a model for areas of growth, and systems to increase each of those areas. I changed my diet to a nutrient-enriched Mediterranean diet, and that meant cutting refined sugars, and adding lean meats instead (with a heavy emphasis on fish [gotta have that omega 3-6s]). Next, I created habits (by modifying pre-existing triggers [to old habits]) to sleep better. Lack of sleep actually has similar effects to being drunk (meaning less cognitive control), but there are many other effects because of this. I also took up sprints (or H.I.I.T.) in the morning. I'm gradually making changes like these to improve my general health and intelligence.

Alone or Synergy?
I have some ambitious projects I'm working on. When it comes to the success of these projects, there are 3 elements I have to take into consideration: Vision, Planning, and Action. I call this the VPA cycle. Within the VPA cycle is your circle of influence, or rather, what liberties you have available to you. The more you use the VPA cycle, the more liberties you have.

Example: Petting a cat is outside your circle of influence (if you don't have a cat). By using the VPA cycle to buy a cat (or steal your neighbor's cat [you horrible schemer!]), you thus extended your COI to cover petting cats.

That's really what development is, VPA + COI. And... finally, to my point: Do I partner up with someone who helps me develop faster and to synergize, or do I skip petty humans and focus my attention on my goals?

Bluntly, INTPs balance out the strong INFJ V (vision) with the unrivaled INTP P (planning/systemizing), though A (action) is usually quite low on an INTP. The INTP will completely weed out unrealistic vision while also strengthening it with logical insight. If I sought out any personality, there would be no other options.

The VPA model itself is an idea of mine, a vision. There's no doubt in my mind that an INTP would be able to help me refine it (There's a whole lot about the VPA cycle I'm leaving out here lol). There's... a lot of perks that I bring to the table as well. Such a shameless plug... xD

So... What are your thoughts on the matter? Go on lonely? Synergize?

Get cats! Or one of the new robot companions! You certainly won't be lonely then...

Sent from Heaven Using My Will

 

[Lovely_INFJ]

What kind of projects?

 

[SoulScream]

Bluntly, INTPs balance out the strong INFJ V (vision) with the unrivaled INTP P (planning/systemizing), though A (action) is usually quite low on an INTP. The INTP will completely weed out unrealistic vision while also strengthening it with logical insight. If I sought out any personality, there would be no other options.

Everything in your post was pretty interesting to read besides this bit. I think you need to re-evaluate the way you think about personality types. You can't apply this sort of blunt statistics to infer what type of person you need in your life. You need to take into account an intrapersonal perspective. To equate interpersonal variance (averages, types, what-have-you) and intrapersonal variance you are assuming that personality traits are ergodic processes and by definition, they are not. (A good paper on the matter: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-8721.2009.01619.x)

Another thing that you have to take into consideration is that we are social creatures whether you think that humans are petty or not. You need them to be able to grow - your theoretical model is great but you need interaction with people to actually achieve something with it. Therefore, I think the answer to your question is self-evident. If you want to accelerate the process, get a partner. Just don't pick one based on crude statistics.

 

[James Till]

Everything in your post was pretty interesting to read besides this bit.

Yeah, I agree. As I laid down to sleep after posting that (drinking my pre-workout right now [good morning]) I decided that that was a bit sketchy. So I agree with you.

You would be much better served asking the NTJs about this. You want practical thinking/Te thinking. Plus they have Ni like you and can understand vision better.

My roommate is an INTJ. I'm cocking my head to the side right now considering what asking him for advice would look like. The guy seemingly pulls (usually accurate) data from thin air. He just doesn't have any drive to make a life for himself. Though obviously, with a wonderful resource like the Personality Cafe, he doesn't have to be the extent of my INTJ interaction. I'll look into that, thank you.

Your vision is basically habits 1 and 2 of 7 Habits for Highly Effective People.

The INTPs are reading the INFJ bible! Run for the hills everyone while you still can! xD

I got the COI from the 7H. Loved the concept, but he's still pretty vague on the particular subject, so I expanded it. Working on a "skill tree" of life sort of thing, and the COI is at the heart of it, branches from one skill/goal to another. The VPA cycle the engine of development.

Honestly, there are other models that work just as well. "Getting things done -David Allen" at the top of my list.

 

[James Till]

What kind of projects?

My main project is a scheduling app. It's a calendar app that works around your schedule, and with what willpower you have, to make small changes that transform your life, one habit at a time. Totally not a run-on sentence!

 

[Necrofantasia]

The INTPs are reading the INFJ bible! Run for the hills everyone while you still can! xD

I got the COI from the 7H. Loved the concept, but he's still pretty vague on the particular subject, so I expanded it. Working on a "skill tree" of life sort of thing, and the COI is at the heart of it, branches from one skill/goal to another. The VPA cycle the engine of development.

Honestly, there are other models that work just as well. "Getting things done -David Allen" at the top of my list.

It's a book.
It's a book on how to actually get stuff done.
It's a book that's so lauded it's on every single book store and has been for years.
It's a book, the author of which was highly sought after by leaders all over the world (of all types) until he kicked the bucket.
And did I mention it's a book? Who declared it the INFJ bible anyway?

My roommate is an INTJ. I'm cocking my head to the side right now considering what asking him for advice would look like. The guy seemingly pulls (usually accurate) data from thin air. He just doesn't have any drive to make a life for himself. Though obviously, with a wonderful resource like the Personality Cafe, he doesn't have to be the extent of my INTJ interaction. I'll look into that, thank you.

I think the way you're applying MBTI is intellectually lazy and kind of unhealthy, like a socially acceptable stereotyping index. I've seen some folk who do this exact same thing in the NTJ forums so you should get along.

 

[James Till]

I think the way you're applying MBTI is intellectually lazy and kind of unhealthy, like a socially acceptable stereotyping index. I've seen some folk who do this exact same thing in the NTJ forums so you should get along.

Interesting. As I was about to defend myself, I realized this an area of my ego. I appreciate the time you put into your response, and I hate to ask, but would love to hear a little more details about what you mean. In a sense, I really agree with you. I'm new to this community, and I haven't really been around people that actually know the MBTI system. My understanding is raw, and all things considered, new. As for calling the 7Habits the INFJ bible, lol, sorry. In my *limited* real world experience, only INFJs have touched it.

 

[James Till]

So far has been an example of what I'm asking. I'm down for critical feedback, even when all it is is critical feedback. This post thus far has also been helpful in helping me refine my general understanding.

Let's say that this article was synergy. Let's say @SoulScream is correct, and it'll help accelerate development. What would be more ideal? Call it harsh reality, but the variable of considerateness was equal to 0 in Nell's posts... The kindnessPerceived < 0. Assuming this is the norm, is the development worth it?

 

[Necrofantasia]

Interesting. As I was about to defend myself, I realized this an area of my ego. I appreciate the time you put into your response, and I hate to ask, but would love to hear a little more details about what you mean. In a sense, I really agree with you. I'm new to this community, and I haven't really been around people that actually know the MBTI system. My understanding is raw, and all things considered, new. As for calling the 7Habits the INFJ bible, lol, sorry. In my *limited* real world experience, only INFJs have touched it.

There are a number of unhealthy pitfalls people tend to fall into when they use MBTI to assess people
1) Pigeonholing/stereotyping
You stop seeing people as complex, paradoxical human beings and delude yourself into thinking you know everything about them just because you know their type, essentially preventing yourself from understanding them properly.
Alternatively you assume they are exactly like the cardboard cutouts the internet likes to present about every type and you question their type if they don't conform to this to a "t". It's almost as though it's unthinkable that, with over 7 billion people on the planet, there'll be tremendous amount of variation within each of the 16 types...

As far as this board is concerned it's led to a shitload of IQ threads, and a nauseating amount of variants of "Do you INTPz liek, feel n' stuff?" threads ...

Another sign is you start associating nonsensical shit to type, and use it as a basis for typing people. e.g." If you have purple font in your sig you're a NF"... that's basically the MBTI version of "grape soda, watermelon n' chikkin".


2) Tribalism and echo chambers.
MBTI is fantastic for the standard monkey thinking of "My tribe vs everyone else". You "otherize" people or dismiss dissent on their part because they aren't part of your tribe. Another annoying manifestation of this is people trying to mark celebrities as "theirs" by claiming they are their type.

This also can lead to type-only "safe space" bullshit which can be valid as a source of support and acceptance but also allows for echo chambers to form.

It can also lead to dumb pronouncements like "OMG I can't date/be friends with/ever get along with/understand" this person because they are a [insert type here].

It's the same psychological principle as nationalism/patriotism, a.k.a using association to reinforce your identity because there's otherwise nothing remarkable/valuable about yourself.

3) Generalizations based on small sample/past interaction comparison
You make global assumptions based on this or that individual or small sample of a particular type. Often times you personally typed the person you've used as a basis for comparison, or they typed themselves using a test online, or they were told they were that type.
Alternatively : You met an INTJ, you know all of them. Or maybe so and so aren't ESFJ because your mom was an ESFJ and they weren't like that. Or you have a few negative experiences and shun the type connected to those experiences.

This is bleach + ammonia level stupidity.

4) Growth avoidance
MBTI tells you your strengths and weaknesses, and who to interact with to improve upon them, but rather than becoming mindful of these shortcomings, you use type as an excuse not to listen to feedback or work on them. Or better yet you use your type to force people to kowtow to your nonsense because "that's the way I am".

Classic examples:
"I am INTP, I don't need to communicate openly when in a relationship. If you loved me you'd use telepathy. Stop urinating out of your eyes and come back in five years, you're smothering me with your emotions. "
"I am INFP, these are my values, suck on them, I am totally justfied in explosively jizzing them all over you because it's the moral thing to do!!!"
"Wellp, I'm ENTJ, I don't do sissy Fe shit, you see this M35? You should expect me to drive it all over your opinion on a consistent basis because efficiency, deal with it."
"I'm ENTP, whatever the fuck made you think you could expect reliability or honesty from me? *insert memes invalidating and dismissing complaint here*"
"I am ENFJ, what do you mean I am inconsiderate about the effects my actions have on others and make everything about myself? I know others better than they know themselves! Stop projecting".


This kind of thinking tends to inspire in me something I like to call the "backpfeifengesicht reflex". Luckily I've never acted upon it.

5) Personal stunting
Related to #1. You essentially use your type as a substitute for an actual identity, and feel pressured to conform to the stereotype, effectively blocking yourself from growing into a balanced human being. You personally feel insecure if you act in a manner that is inconsistent with your type caricature.

This is usually something younger people do, but I've seen it in all age brackets.


tl;dr
MBTI is a starting point. It's a jumping platform that provides some questions and structure so you can start exploring. It's not a shortcut nor a reliable/comprehensive way to define someone.

So ask your roommate for his thoughts. If he's intelligent something worthwhile should come out of it.

 

[James Till]

Thank you! I'll reflect on your thoughts. I feel a good frienemy relationship is in order! <3

 

[Lovely_INFJ]

I think @Nell makes really good points about how we often use MBTI. At the same time, I could see how the original poster's idea could be valid if it was meant in the sense that they could see that working to develop an app with an INTP could be fruitful because their type (with a wide range of individual variations) is good at solving problems and thinking through technical and engineering types of problems, maybe especially, which could work well with the OP. That said, you can "synergize" the projects with any MBTI type as long as you recognize your individual strengths and weaknesses and identify an individual who has strengths that you value. In this case I can see why INTP would come to mind, but I don't think Nell was being mean, and made a bunch of important points about pigeonholing and echo chambers and all the negative ways we can use MBTI. So it's more like you see that your project needs someone to help who can do X and Y. Multiple "types" and individuals can do X and Y. Even another INFJ could potentially synergize with you if they have the skills, background, or education you need.

P.s. nobody told me that book was our bible! I've only kind of skimmed it, lol

 

[VinnieBob]

Alone or Synergy?





So... What are your thoughts on the matter? Go on lonely? Synergize?[/QUOTE]

which is greater
your passion for your vision
tbh companionship is highly over rated

 

[Lovely_INFJ]

Alone or Synergy?

So... What are your thoughts on the matter? Go on lonely? Synergize?

which is greater
your passion for your vision
tbh companionship is highly over rated[/QUOTE]

Aw why is companionship overrated?

 

[VinnieBob]

which is greater
your passion for your vision
tbh companionship is highly over rated

Aw why is companionship overrated?[/QUOTE]

passion is always there for you
it is the life source of vision
w/o passion we are nothing
humans are not
very unreliable beings
lie, cheat, steal
passion does none of that

 

[Lovely_INFJ]

Oh. @vinniebob Passion and companionship aren't mutually exclusive though. You can have both! Just stay away from the liars and thieves