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Should I stay or Should I go? ISTP (M) ENFP (F)

2K views 14 replies 12 participants last post by  ISTP_VIRTUOSO 
#1 ·
I’m an ENFP female and I’ve been hopelessly in love with an ISTP male for nearly 7 years.
We met about a year after his wife passed away from cancer at 27. She was so beautiful and an amazing mother to his 4 kids (3 from his first marriage). We had instant chemistry but he would “disappear” whenever he started to have feelings for me. I always just gave him space and we never officially “dated” As time went on a really strong friendship grew. He dated several women over the years and it always crushed me because I wondered what he saw in them, that he didn’t see in me... I was just as pretty and I have a very good heart and am extremely loyal. One girl he dated, he actually considered marrying but she was diagnosed w stage 4 cancer and passed away shortly thereafter. He swore he would never fall in love again and confessed to one of his best friends that he thinks he’s cursed and that if he loves a girl, she will get sick and die. So we continued as very close friends and have a no pressure but awesome sexual relationship. All these years and we still can’t keep our hands off each other! Over time I became more involved in his business and I’m the one who helped his kids with applying for college, health issues etc. I manage his finances and he trusts me completely. He has been there for me just as much as I have been there for him... whenever I have a problem he’s always fixed it for me.
But about 7 months ago I began to feel hurt that he cannot define what exactly I am to him. I know he loves me deeply (I’ve made him cry, he’s jumped on the next flight home from Europe when I’ve needed him, and I can see it in his eyes) but he will not say it unless I DRAG it out of him. I know ISTP’s... feelings are not a topic they like to discuss.
I stopped initiating communication and spent time focusing on me. He would reach out and check in on me but I kept it brief and told him I need to find my partner in life... someone who loves me and wants a real relationship. We’ve NEVER gone more than a couple days without speaking and I think it shocked him that I was pulling away. Then about a month ago he had a major issue at his company (he’s the owner) and I’m the first person he came to. We figured it out and all the old feelings came rushing back. Two years ago I told him we could no longer kiss (even during sex) because it was too hard for me because I loved him and wanted more than he was willing to give. Then last week I went over to his house to drop off some paperwork. We had a little disagreement the night before and I was still cranky (we rarely disagree but when we do it’s ALWAYS about the same thing... I want to define what we are and but he won’t/can’t tell me) When I walked in the door I told him I was still cranky with him. He shocked me by wrapping his arms around me and kissing me. He’s been away with his son at an athletic competition and has kept in nearly constant contact. He even called me immediately after his son was knocked out of the running for 1st. He didn’t really say much, I could tell he was upset for his son and it was like he just wanted to know I was on the other end of the phone and was there with him.
So I guess my question is, do you think he resists having a real relationship because ISTPs are borderline incapable of recognizing their feelings? OR do you think he knows how he truly feels and just honestly doesn’t want a real relationship with me? I really need to figure this out...
 
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#2 ·
In my opinion, any relationship that makes you ask for any form of counseling is not one worth staying in. You can fix a broken vase with super-glue, but deep down you know it will never be whole, and is worth only $5 on Ebay.

A successful relationship should be either perfect or non-existent. Anything less than perfect is not worth the effort, because most of the time it will only end in disappointment, especially when you realize you spent years of your life on it.

That is just my opinion though. Don't let me be your only voice.
 
#5 ·
A successful relationship should be either perfect or non-existent
Non-existent, then ... as pertains to any relationship ever. Per your rule, no relationships exist and should exist. How can anything ever, with a straight-face and no hyperbole, be called "perfect"?

This is real life, the most fundamental aspect of it is imperfection. Relationships aren't "perfect", they are work and compromise and full of daily annoyances that are thought to be worth it because of the upsides the rest of the time.


@ENFP510: If the factual reality of what you are (like, the literal impression of everyday actions done by both of you) is not enough of a definition for you, you are right to ask for more. If you do not get a response that satisfies you, does it matter whether he can't or won't? We can't look inside his head, neither can you. If he's not sharing what's inside there, all you have to do is to figure out whether that's a deal-breaker for you, and base your decision on that.
 
#7 ·
His deep-seated fear of you dying is the real cause of his reluctance. Like any form of phobia, this is as real as can be. So, convince him that you won't die in the near future except until you're really old ( maybe 80 or 100 years old).
 
#8 ·
On a serious note, you should sit him down and get your priority straight. Life is ephemeral. You'd be dead soon before you can get married. Either a compromise will be made, or you leave. Just leave for good. From what I see, he has some mental issues about being jinxed. It could be a lame excuse.. or it could probably be very real and he has Ptsd every time he gets close to any potential love interest. In that case, he needs help to deal with the problem.
 
#9 ·
Yeah, I don't think it's related to him being an ISTP so much as he's really freaked out that two people he's been in love with before both died of cancer. I think he's afraid and has convinced himself that allowing him to love another person is putting them in harms way because it's a freakishly uncommon coincidence. This is beyond type. It sounds like he just needs some counseling to work out his own problems and addressing his fears--not couples counseling. I think if he can sort out what's eating at him, the rest will follow naturally.
 
#10 ·
Thank you everyone... I think you guys might be right, and that it’s more of an issue from experiencing so much loss in his life. The idea that a relationship must be perfect is just silly. The only thing a relationship MUST be is healthy!
Hmm... so now the problem is, how do you get an ISTP to talk about their FEELINGS... to a stranger? 🙈
 
#12 ·
I think the writing is on the wall. He has a wonderful friend who is gracious, helpful and kind. You have great sex together and he no doubt cares for and about you. You are more to him than “His Girl Friday.”

In the interim he dates and considers marriage to other women. If he wanted to marry you he would have.

ISTPs are perfectly capable of having feelings and deeply loving someone. ISTPs may not be as inclined to discuss or verbalize their emotions, but they certainly exist.

ISTPs to tend to love their freedom and fluidity of movement. We tend to chafe in marriage and relationships which require commitment. If you somehow manipulate him into marriage I think he will be resentful.

He sounds like a savvy guy. I think you are being, and have been, manipulated. The boys have a saying, “Why buy the cow if you are getting the milk for free?” His technique is sound. If she loves you, she is yours to be had.

My suggestion is to temporarily substitute the “F” in your personality with a “T”. Then take off your rose colored glasses and step on them. That done, make a decision in your own best interest, whatever you think that might be.

In my opinion, ISTPs have the potential to be quite self-serving when it suits them, as well as inconsiderate of the feelings of others. You may be in a position where considering self above others has become paramount.

It was not my intent to be rude or harsh. I simply intend to be clear spoken.

Good luck with this.
 
#14 ·
It seems like you may not be too certain of what you want out of the relationship. You have equally participated in what has been. Yet you want him to "define" the relationship and tell you what it is. Maybe you're also comfortable with the status-quo and afraid of true commitment to him? I think you need to focus on you and really decide what you want. Once you've determined that, let him know where you stand, how you feel, and what you need.

Your story reminds me of my early relationship with my ENFP wife. We began as friends as I've never been good at the dating thing, so this was a comfortable place for me to start. We had an instant connection as friends, and then my feelings for her developed over time. We spent a lot of time together, became intimate, but it was never important to me to think about "defining" the relationship. Inside I thought of her as my girlfriend/partner/whatever you want to call it really doesn't matter because I spent most of my time with her.

What I never realized was that it was important to her, as being the intuitive, she was always future-minded. She put me on the spot one day and asked me "what is this"? I didn't know how to respond because I'd honestly never thought about it. But her asking me that question made me feel like she was prying into my feelings, and asking for a long-term commitment by labeling our relationship. I was perfectly content taking things day-to-day. I thought my actions and giving of myself completely to her was enough for her to just intuitively understand what we had. After some reflection I told her I considered her my girlfriend.

She put me on the spot again sometime later and asked me when we were going to live together. Obviously another huge step that, in that moment, I was not prepared for as I'd never given it any thought. That conversation did not end well and I created some distance between us because I blamed her for making me feel the intensity of that question.

What I now realize was that she needed to know for herself where we were going, my dedication and commitment to her, and that I was not just wasting her life. She gently guided our relationship to create it into what it is in a way that I was comfortable with, and made me uncomfortable at times, but in a good way as it spurred growth in me. We've been married for 9 years now.

One thing I dislike is having my feelings be put on the spot without having time to think about and process them. I will shut down these conversations and close up. That doesn't mean I don't have feelings. I just can't stand talking about them to another when I've not had time to think about how I feel. For me, it's easier to write about them as I can approach them in an analytical way and have lots of time/space to process and make sense of them.

Maybe you could try writing to your ISTP. I think that may be beneficial in that you can organize how you feel and he can take his time understanding these. My wife can get very emotional talking about her feelings to the point where I get lost and can't get to the root of these because of the intensity of emotion present is overwhelming sometimes, especially if anger is involved.

I can also say that perhaps one of my deepest fears is losing my wife or a child. I think your ISTP has some incredibly deep trauma related to that experience that is likely getting in the way of any firm commitment to you. He likely needs to process this trauma and maybe you can facilitate, and can be a healing experience, and deepen your relationship. But don't be surprised if he shuts you out for sheer fear or bringing these feelings up in himself as he may have worked hard to bury these in order to get through life taking care of his children.
 
#15 ·
I’m an ISTP and struggle with talking about my feelings as well. My girlfriend brings this up with me a lot, and has told me before that sometimes when I become detached it can confuse her. However, she never questions if I love her or if I will leave her. She just does not understand why I have a hard time talking. That being said, I think if this dude cared about you he would make some kind of effort because he does know how this bothers you since you’ve told him. I personally hate people getting into my space, trying to “tie me down” or control me too much, and forcing me to communicate my feelings. But I have no problem making an effort for my girlfriend because I care for her, and I try to voice my feelings to her when she asks. Most of the time I show her instead, but I never make her question our relationship or where things are going with us. It’s probably best for you to take a step back and ask yourself if this person is valuing your time or using you for other reasons. I know we can go from being attentive to detached, but it sounds like he doesn’t know what he wants out of the relationship either. But that’s just my two cents
 
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