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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)


For example.
Take a bachelors in Mechanical engineering and a bachelors in philosophy.
Say ME is more in demand. Keep those costs for ME "high" while increasing public funding for students interested in said field (using the money leftover from the fields in low demand).
Lower the price of the low-demand field (philosophy in this case) while decreasing public funding.
Cost and funding will fluctuate as does demand
Feel free to destroy, adjust, or come up with a better idea.
 

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About 20 years ago I had a BA in anthropology and was flipping burgers full time at A&W. A part-time cook there was studying chemistry. The full-time cashier had a master's degree in history.

After I quit that job I saw the chemistry guy working in Taco Bell. I said, "What happened to your studies?" He said, "I graduated! I'm the manager here now."

Just goes to show you the relative value of various degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
About 20 years ago I had a BA in anthropology and was flipping burgers full time at A&W. A part-time cook there was studying chemistry. The full-time cashier had a master's degree in history.

After I quit that job I saw the chemistry guy working in Taco Bell. I said, "What happened to your studies?" He said, "I graduated! I'm the manager here now."

Just goes to show you the relative value of various degrees.
That's extremely discouraging
 

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@Marshy14

By "demand" you mean "lots of people want to study and it's very popular" [in my country it's pedagogy] or "if you have that degree you are earning a lot" [medicine and IT]?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@Marshy14

By "demand" you mean "lots of people want to study and it's very popular" [in my country it's pedagogy] or "if you have that degree you are earning a lot" [medicine and IT]?
The two are essentially linked together as people do tend to flock to areas in need which inevitably pay substantially. Its also why trade schools are poised for a comeback in the near future.
 

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The cost of education should be free (aka paid by taxpayers).

If you only need say ten doctors this year, train only ten. If you need zero historians why train more and let them flip burgers until someone inevitably retires/dies?

I know it sounds unfair, but the only other solution would be to lower the retirement age, or cut down the working hours of a full time worker.

Mass unemployment means just that: we work too many hours, and even with 1% of the population holding most of the wealth we're still somehow capable to feed most (via welfare). Not an ideal situation of course, but making everyone work for 4-6 hours a day on the same wages would surely make more sense.
 

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@Marshy14

There is a job market value and there is popularity.

In Poland we have a mixed system of education. You can study for free at state sponsored universities [sponsored by taxpayers]. Those universities have many faculties and lot of - sometimes exotic - specializations. If you want to enter a free school you have to have really good grades because the cometition is high.

Private schools have different rules and the price of your course depends on two factors, one of them being market demand.
For example if you want to study medicine, you have to pay ~ 12 K euros a year. If you want to study psychology it's ~ 2, if you want to study pedagogy it's less than 1 K. Why is that? There are few people teaching medicine while both popularity and demand are high. On the other hand there are lots of - I guess unempoyed otherwise - pedagogy teachers.

We don't have private technical universities - there is no demand. In fact, my local Politechnika Gdanska each year has problems with filling the classes. This saddens me, for various reasons.

In my country the gross university enrollment ratio is rising exponentialy. Having a BA became kind of "must-have" and I am not talking about job market - people get degrees like crazy in theology or psychotronics [sic!] for example. It really doesn't matter - all that matters are the magical letters BA.

Why? Because otherwise people don't respect you. I am dead serious. As I mentioned before, to be able to get to the free uni you have to have good grades. University education become so popular that if you don't have a degree, there must be something wrong with you, you must be dumb.
On the other hand, private unis see it as an oportunity to do business, so they are kinda producing graduates.

Also, in my not so humble opinion, most people are lazy. Mentally and psychically. If you want to get a degree in pedagogy you don't have to work as much as you would if you were studying mechanical engeneering. Another also, on mental laziness, people don't think trough what are they gonna do in the future. When I was deciding on what to study [I have MA in philosophy, it was a no-brainer for me] most of my friends were trying to enroll in politology. Why? Because those studies are famous for being more of a joke and politology students were famous for partying really hard.

@islandlight

My first job after graduation was giving away flyers.

@Aridela

EU is trying to change education system by ... paying students to study at technical universities.
 

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I don't see the point. So you increase the price of a certain field, but also increase the amount of money students get by increasing public funding? What exactly changes then?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't see the point. So you increase the price of a certain field, but also increase the amount of money students get by increasing public funding? What exactly changes then?
Not increasing, keeping essentially the same as they are now though (high).
 

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Not increasing, keeping essentially the same as they are now though (high).
Let me tell you exactly what will happen if you do that.

Rich kids will be able to get the expensive degrees and thus create even more segregation and make it even more impossible for poor people to go to Uni. It's happening already in the UK. I'm thinking of doing a MSc next year and I'm already having to live like a pauper (whilst having a relatively high paying job) in order to be able to afford it. It goes without saying I'll have to apply for a student loan anyways as there's no way I can afford to study otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Let me tell you exactly what will happen if you do that.

Rich kids will be able to get the expensive degrees and thus create even more segregation and make it even more impossible for poor people to go to Uni. It's happening already in the UK. I'm thinking of doing a MSc next year and I'm already having to live like a pauper (whilst having a relatively high paying job) in order to be able to afford it. It goes without saying I'll have to apply for a student loan anyways as there's no way I can afford to study otherwise.
Even if you were to take public funding out of the non-marketable degree?

There is a problem here though and that's the present overvalue of such degrees though.
If anything I believe it would cause the middle/poorer class to gravitate to said fields. Only thing is if someone wants to go to an undesirable field for their "dreams" they cannot do so without having to pay out of pocket or look for pvt loans. I could be way off here it was just a random thought so would appreciate feedback to this
@Pifanjr this may clarify a bit
 

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@Pifanjr this may clarify a bit
Nope. Now the inessential degree is effectively more expensive because you cut funding, while the demanded degree is effectively cheaper? But the total price of the demanded degree has increased while the one of the inessential degree has decreased? Why? What is the point of all of this?

And with demanded degree, you mean a degree in a field with a lot of available jobs, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Nope. Now the inessential degree is effectively more expensive because you cut funding, while the demanded degree is effectively cheaper? But the total price of the demanded degree has increased while the one of the inessential degree has decreased? Why? What is the point of all of this?

And with demanded degree, you mean a degree in a field with a lot of available jobs, right?
Wrong again. I already said this isn't the case in my last reply to you. The point is to financially discourage inessential degrees while promoting degrees in fields that are necessary.
You could argue that jobs would be incentive enough to pursue the other degree,however people still waste their monie$ on useless degrees in todays society (at least in america)
It would work as a curve directly related to the market needs fluctuating slightly with each degree.
 

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Wrong again. I already said this isn't the case in my last reply to you. The point is to financially discourage inessential degrees while promoting degrees in fields that are necessary.
You could argue that jobs would be incentive enough to pursue the other degree,however.
It would work as a curve directly related to the market needs fluctuating slightly with each degree.
Okay, I misunderstood you then. I don't think it is necessary to discourage people from getting an inessential degree using financial barriers. If you want to get people to pick demanded degrees, then educate them on the likelihood of getting a job for each degree.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Okay, I misunderstood you then. I don't think it is necessary to discourage people from getting an inessential degree using financial barriers. If you want to get people to pick demanded degrees, then educate them on the likelihood of getting a job for each degree.
I can agree with that, I'm not sure if it will necessarily work as well as an immediate financial incentive would however. Also important to know the drawing is an example of extremes, which if it was the case this wouldn't work as funding would eventually run out as they flock to the green square.
 

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Not 100% case specific, but it has crossed my mind a few times (earlier today coincidentally) how invaluable a Bachelor's has become. It seems to have become the new standard. I've been thrown impressions at my face saying "if you don't obtain one: you're screwed". A Bachelor seems to be either 1) a stepping stone to a master's degree 2) the equivalent of 5 (I'm pretty sure it used to be a lot more in the past) years of labour you can skip to climb up the rankings. Subtract the 3 year of studying (best case scenario that is) financial expenses ànd don't forget to add the revenue you would've earned throughout the 5 years of work.

The majority of people my age in my environment obtain a Bachelor (or higher). Or a very specific 'blue collar' type of certificate (which will prevent them from flipping burgers). Higher educated people in my parent's generation seem like an exception more than anything.

Is this true or am I drawing conclusions off of false or non-representative information and perceptions?
_

As far as the actual case is concerned, I like the concept. But wouldn't the fluctuation cause an overpopulation in fields that aren't needed, exactly because the low entry price makes it a risk worthwhile to take. They'd have to adjust the prices every half year or so to balance out the expected value. Which may result in scenes like 3rd grades having to pay double the amount they started with in year 1.
 

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I think this already happens to a degree but I'll play along:

How would you even go about determining what's in demand and what isnt? Would it even be possible to reroute funding in a timely fashion? You could safely predict for essential services like medical care but it gets hazy with things like IT.
Plus imagine not being able to take advantage of economic opportunities as they come (New technology, new trends) because people were discouraged from pursuing the career paths that would enable doing so.

It sounds good from an efficiency standpoint but it seems short-sighted to me.
 
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