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INTP only.

Obviously people must be allowed to believe what they want, no matter how idiotic.

But do you think religious beliefs should be treated with respect?
 

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I think one can have respect for something by virtue of its qualities aligning with one's own beliefs, hopes and preferences, but I dont think respect can ever be deserved.

Nothing should be immune from scrutiny in this world, religion is not an exception.

I think it helps to keep in mind that many individuals aren't subscribing to a given religion for the thrill of debating and justifying it. They may or may not have been indoctrinated, and they're generally looking for a solid foundation and ethical orientation in life. They need/are used to having a stability with which to deal with life's complexities and trials, retaining a sense of greater meaning and all encompassing value that helps to reduce confusion and a feeling of being lost.

I feel that debating religion with people using it as a foundation in their life is probably pointless and fruitless in most cases.
Obviously things become more difficult when their belief system leads to action that starts to directly and adversely affect others, and then you have to go into debates about policing based on what any individual's given rights should be.
 

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Not a huge deal, but I think everyone should practice open-mindedness, perhaps especially when it comes to how someone leads their life (as long as it doesn't come at a great cost for others, of course). Lacking that, you're not gonna end up liking a lot of people, and not a lot of people will end up liking you. Whether it's religious or not should be irrelevant.
 

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No, since 'should' is the word here that keeps me from saying yes, the word 'could' , or 'would' would do better. Nobody 'should' respect someone else or not (regardless of belief).
One can chose to either respect or disrespect based on many different reasons, or no reasons at all, and behave as such, and the other can chose to be either offended/touched by it, or not, for just as many different reasons.
However, there's this thing called courtesy, which can be quite gracious in acting towards others with other belief systems, no matter how stupid one perceives them to be. Being able, openminded and patient enough to, agree to disagree, and be happy for the other that it is enough for them to live their lives with, is the magic phrase, if you ask me.
This ends however, where the person in question, is actually harming others by practising the belief. I have little to no respect for those people.
 

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Yes, religion answers a lot of questions for a lot of people. More to the point though, I don't care what people believe or what they do with their lives as long as they recognize the proper boundaries of those beliefs/practices. And it's not harmful.
 

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Usually, respect is earned. No one earns anything by having a belief.

However, there is a certain respect that all humans qualify for in civilized societies: it's why we don't torture prisoners (or say we don't) and why we help nonproductive members of society to survive, even though there is no measurable benefit to us by doing so. (Except that we get to live in a culture where this is the case.) This respect for all human life is what differentiates a civilized society from a non-civilized one.

So I think you're talking more about decorum. And in that light, it is good decorum to avoid alienating people who aren't hurting you. If they're trying to throw you off a building for being gay, well then, you have my permission not to respect them, and toss good decorum off the building instead. If we just hate their smug little faces, we should have the self-control to deal with that feeling on our own time and keep it our own problem.

Without good decorum, society collapses into tribalism and sectarian violence. So we all agree to keep our thoughts about how stupid everyone else is on the inside. And this is what builds our world. However, when this tacit agreement fails, and people suddenly feel the need for legal prohibitions to protect their fragile identities, you have a totalitarian culture. But that's what people start crying for when not enough other people can keep their frustrated feelings under control. They want the state to control everyone then. Isn't it a better idea for everyone to just practice good decorum? I guess that's too much to ask.

But following this, those of us who avoid offending religious (or stupid, or both) people do so not because those whom you wouldn't offend deserve deference or respect, but because we see the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is that being an asshole makes us part of the problem. The moment...the second...the millisecond the religious start intruding on your own rights, tell the truth, as brutally as you like. They can't hide behind their religion to escape scrutiny of their actions. But if you jump on them before they do this, you've also relinquished all the rules of good decorum you could have relied on as your expectation that they would listen to you. And now you're just tossing mud back and forth.
 

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If the belief in question merits respect, sure. If not, no. Religiosity, while a factor, shouldn't be the primary consideration when it comes to foundational beliefs. I like to think of many religious beliefs as being rooted in generational wisdom: This works well, this causes nothing but problems. Contrariness for its own sake (religious tenets rating an automatic discard) is only slightly less thoughtless than blind followership.
 

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Usually, respect is earned. No one earns anything by having a belief.
Not anymore. Remember when 'tolerance' meant you put up with something and kept your mouth shut but now it means open-armed love and acceptance? Yeah, same thing. The goal post is over here now: It's all about reciprocal respect.

Here's how it works: I say I respect you and you must accept this token gesture and give me your actual respect in return. Because who are you to exercise critical thought and pass judgement on my sincerity? Never mind my beliefs. Besides, fair's fair.
 

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Not anymore. Remember when 'tolerance' meant you put up with something and kept your mouth shut but now it means open-armed love and acceptance? Yeah, same thing. The goal post is over here now: It's all about reciprocal respect.

Here's how it works: I say I respect you and you must accept this token gesture and give me your actual respect in return. Because who are you to exercise critical thought and pass judgement on my sincerity? Never mind my beliefs. Besides, fair's fair.
Nice try, but I also read the new rules. No one is under any obligation to respect men under any circumstances. Unless they put on a dress and cry. Are you doing that? Yeah, I thought not. #alltimewinner
 

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Nice try, but I also read the new rules. No one is under any obligation to respect men under any circumstances. Unless they put on a dress and cry. Are you doing that? Yeah, I thought not. #alltimewinner
Huh. Might as well deserve that disrespect. Time to begin an adulterous affair so I can land squarely on my feet after I abandon the wife and kids. Chicken? Egg?
 

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Huh. Might as well deserve that disrespect. Time to begin an adulterous affair so I can land squarely on my feet after I abandon the wife and kids. Chicken? Egg?
Well, exactly. And it's so sad because it was such an easy game before. It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot more fun than this baroque BS the kids are playing today. You can't tell me anybody's having fun now, not even the people who rewrote the rules.

And now we've derailed from religion. Or have we?
 

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It depends on what beliefs I suppose. if somebody creates the church of the force, and claims to be training as a jedi, I think that showing too much respect is just enabling. Now in general, yes. We've had discussions on other threads about this, so I've already stated my beliefs and why, but that does not stop me from showing respect for someone elses religious belief. I may not voice my support or agreement with it, but I would not ask them to do anything to violate them. All this is of course assuming it is not a violent thing or they're not going to block traffic inconveniencing thousands of people of course.
 

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The question is misleading, people don't seem to even understand each other very much. How can you begin to respect a different point of view if you don't even understand where they are coming from? Of course, by doing so you just turned it into a plausible form for your own way of thinking. The so called "benefit from the doubt".

So it seems to be the case that once we can come to understand what the other person truly means, we have at the same time come to respect what the other person believes.

So now the question becomes: should we take the time to understand what the other person truly means? There may be cases where this is near impossible because it conflicts so directly with a very fundamental "belief" (as in a root inexpressible assumption).

I respect beliefs because I have no choice. Otherwise I would just be disrespecting what I now incorrectly believe to be their belief.
 

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I do respect their ability to completely accept something so irrelevant and intangible - but make it more.
By proxy, I will also respect their traditions like not offering them fish on Fridays, or letting them know that french onion soup is not vegan.
I don't think of it as respecting religion as an institution, but respecting that religion is their source of comfort. Diminishing that doesn't hurt the institution, it hurts the person and gains you nothing.
 

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I do respect their ability to completely accept something so irrelevant and intangible - but make it more.
By proxy, I will also respect their traditions like not offering them fish on Fridays, or letting them know that french onion soup is not vegan.
I don't think of it as respecting religion as an institution, but respecting that religion is their source of comfort. Diminishing that doesn't hurt the institution, it hurts the person and gains you nothing.
You sound so much like me years and years ago, especially the irrelevant and intangible part. But let's just look at it from a different angle being INTPs should be pretty easy. Let's say there is more than we can tangibly prove at least not now, which isn't hard because following science over the centuries, many theories have been changed as new information presents itself. And consider that we often offhand call the ancient's simple and uncivilized, but then you find out in 1200 BC there were parts of cities with running water and they actually had an instrument not too different from the one we use today to operate on cataracts in the eyes. So we should give them some credit and not say that they were all just simpletons who made stuff up that we carry forward today.

So let's say that because nobody can satisfactorily prove the existance of God to us, so we dismiss it as irrelevant, and we're wrong God does exist. The Creator of the entire universe does exist and wants you to come to know Him. At that point how irrelevant is that?

Then as far as tangible, how tangible are experiences that people have? If somebody tells you that God said to them to help this person, and 30 seconds later somebody appears out of nowhere asking for help, it's fairly compelling. Especially when you add on the cumulative existance of stories like this. A little girl, who had a large tumor in her abdomen was being prayed for by family and freinds and was going to need to undergo surgery. One morning she woke up and goes and tells her mother that God came and put His hand on her abdomen and healed her, then held her. There is no sign of the tumor, doctors do a scan and can find nothing and have no explanation. These are cases I can confirm as being real, being close enough to both. And there are many more.

So, just something to think about when deciding something is irrelevant and intangible.
 
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