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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all!

I'm not only struggling to decide whether I am Thinking or Feeling, but I am also not sure about whether I am Extraverted or Introverted.

I come out as INxP on many or most tests that try to determine the 4 letters. Tests that try to determine the cognitive functions preferred usually type me as Ne-dominant and Si-inferior.

So, I was wondering if there are shy ENFPs? And do such ENFP act as "unhealthy" INFPs?

This is a thread on the INFP forum that is relevant to this topic:
https://www.personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/1328069-healthy-vs-unhealthy-infp.html

This thread was conceived apropos of this post on the INFJ forum:
https://www.personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/1327217-bringing-out-your-se-4.html#post43848533

Regards,
Albert.
 

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I lean introverted over being extroverted. I'm probably 55% introverted and 45% extroverted. I am very shy and prefer curling up with a good book over parting at a club. I prefer painting in private (with one person around) over club hoping. I don't mind going to a large gathering every now and then but they're not my cup of tea. Give me a library filled with books or a coffee shop I can play DND with a small group of friends.

When thinking about the MBTI don't go by the E and I listed in front. They do not represent shy or outgoing. For example, Ne represents External intuition for an ENFP. Ne does not = outgoing. If anything we're more of an ambivert. I'm not scared of large gatherings but they're not my preference. I like the personal one on one scenarios or a small gathering of my friends preferably within the comfort of my cubby home.

A lot of times I can come off outgoing because my brain does not shut down and I'm perceived by the outside world to be talkative. I think everything out loud and overshare my ideas. I've tried to control this over the past but it's really hard to do and gets me in trouble a lot. I normally come off as a stage 10 oddball. I'm certainly not everyone's taste. I still, however, don't let this get me down and go about my merry little way with being weird. Normally if you turn on the feelings button I shut up very quickly and become painfully shy. That's my Fi, it's strong and I'm highly introverted in the traditional meaning of the word = shy. In fact, this oversharing can scare people off.

I'm also an ENFP-A so I'm pretty sure of myself in areas that I've mastered and as I've grown older my Te strengths. So sometimes this scenario happens "you're awesome," from a fan and I retort back without blinking, "I know." I also know follow my dreams with a very forthright determination and I don't let anyone stand in my way of doing it. People will tell me that's impossible. No one gets published in Vogue. I simply look at them with determination and say, "Hold my beer."

Again, don't look at if you're shy or outgoing. Understand the functions on a basic level and remember Ne does not = outgoing. Are you more Ne or Fi? I know I'm Ne lead it comes out off of all my pores and blinds people as I walk by. I can't help being Ne lead.

I'm also extremely intelligent and logical so sometimes people guess INTP but then after getting to know me longer, they're like nope that's full facing Te. I don't have a drop of Ti or Fe in me. Also, my Si is so small that I suffer from tiny Si syndrome.

There are a lot of shy ENFPs. We're actually known as the most introverted of the extroverts because people equate extroverted to outgoing instead of what it really means is extroverted intuition.
 

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Shyness is a decently-common ENFP trait.
After all, we aren't considered socially extroverted, as a rule. Ne isn't a social function.
I don't think it's necessarily unhealthy; here, I guess this trait fluctuates per individual case.
I assume that normal definitions of introversion or extroversion don't really apply when it comes to separating sibling types like INFP vs. ENFP.
 

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I an enfp - not shy but I’m pretty introverted according to social definition. I don’t trust test so much bc my result is always entp or intp and I’m definitely not those 2 types through functions or how I act/analyze things :)

There are many shy enfps though and infp who are nowhere near shy .


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Yes, if you're shy you'll most likely score Introvert on MBTI since the axis measures outgoingness anyways.

I've said it many times in similar threads, but I'll say it again: in the MBTI there's nothing inherent in the I/E that says you must be N or F dom. The idea that INFP=F and ENFP=N dom is just how they prescribed it and not how it really is, there are even some studies that show this isn't the case.

When I was depressed/socially anxious I did type introvert quite heavily, nowadays it's either, depending on the test and near the middle. It really varies on the questions, when most of them are about being very socially involved I tend to type I, some that are more object-oriented I type E. Jung's definitions of E/I were rather different, a combo of both and more, I'm quite heavily extraverted in his theory.
 

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Introversion and Extroversion is about energy transfer during social interaction. You can be shy or outgoing as either.

If you get tired from social stuff, you're an introvert. If you get energised from social stuff, you're an extrovert. You could be shy as an extrovert but still feel better after being around others. Personally, I'm an extrovert but I take time to warm up to somebody new. I get shy and anxious around them. But I feel so good once we strike a solid conversation.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Introversion and Extroversion is about energy transfer during social interaction. You can be shy or outgoing as either.

If you get tired from social stuff, you're an introvert. If you get energised from social stuff, you're an extrovert. You could be shy as an extrovert but still feel better after being around others. Personally, I'm an extrovert but I take time to warm up to somebody new. I get shy and anxious around them. But I feel so good once we strike a solid conversation.
I don't know if I get drained or energised as a general rule, but I do know that with some people I get highly energised, including my psychologist, and even more so there's a doctor I meet occasionally whom I find to be a scintillating conversationalist, and I always feel great after talking to him. Is that enough to classify myself as an extravert?

Some conversations kind of get me out of balance. Not so that I lose energy, but I get irritable or emotionally perturbed, and need some time to recover, regain my composure or equilibrium or whatever.

Most conversations I have are unremarkable, and I can not say either way, whether I feel worse or better from them -- as I said, they are unremarkable, scarcely noteworthy. Sometimes I can have a good conversation with a member of my family (the one I was born into), but mostly they're unremarkable. I do not recall ever losing energy from them.

I never really feel lonely, but I do crave stimulating interaction. Most often that means a dialogue with another person, but it could potentially be a computer game or something.

-Albert.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes, if you're shy you'll most likely score Introvert on MBTI since the axis measures outgoingness anyways.
That's what I was talking about, the tests that measure I/E as one axis, tend to be all about withdrawn vs. outgoing.

I've said it many times in similar threads, but I'll say it again: in the MBTI there's nothing inherent in the I/E that says you must be N or F dom. The idea that INFP=F and ENFP=N dom is just how they prescribed it and not how it really is, there are even some studies that show this isn't the case.
If it's not the preferred function that distinguishes them, then what does?

When I was depressed/socially anxious I did type introvert quite heavily, nowadays it's either, depending on the test and near the middle. It really varies on the questions, when most of them are about being very socially involved I tend to type I, some that are more object-oriented I type E.
Can you clarify what you mean by object-oriented?

Jung's definitions of E/I were rather different, a combo of both and more, I'm quite heavily extraverted in his theory.
Can you summarise these definitions?

-Albert.
 

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Normally if you turn on the feelings button I shut up very quickly and become painfully shy. That's my Fi, it's strong and I'm highly introverted in the traditional meaning of the word = shy. In fact, this oversharing can scare people off.
What do you mean by "feelings button"?

Again, don't look at if you're shy or outgoing. Understand the functions on a basic level and remember Ne does not = outgoing. Are you more Ne or Fi?
I'm quite sure it's Ne. Even back when I thought I was INTP, I was feeling that Ne was my preferred function.

I'm also extremely intelligent and logical so sometimes people guess INTP but then after getting to know me longer, they're like nope that's full facing Te. I don't have a drop of Ti or Fe in me. Also, my Si is so small that I suffer from tiny Si syndrome.
Are you saying you have less Ti/Fe than Si?

There are a lot of shy ENFPs. We're actually known as the most introverted of the extroverts because people equate extroverted to outgoing instead of what it really means is extroverted intuition.
I've read that was ENTP.

-Albert.
 

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I've read that was ENTP.

-Albert.
Ne dom are the most introverted extrovert- bc Ne gain energy from external ideas and connections more so than social interaction. For ex- if my Ne is running wild I can stay in for days writing without any social interaction ( including electronic devices) and would still be content and happy. Both type prefer one on one interaction over group . It’s hard to determine which one is more introverted


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I have a lot I could say and have said about the differences between INFP and ENFPs. My husband is INFP, my two sisters are INFP and INTP. I am constantly seeing the difference between Ne dom and aux and also how it plays out socially. Basically I want more input constantly and am not easily satisfied. I’m pretty relentless about seeking constant info and pursuing questions. When discussing things, my Ne aux family will pursue with me for a bit (or a bit longer, depending) and at some point I am going to want to keep talking about concepts at at some point they are going to get tired and need to retreat into alone time for homeostasis. It doesn’t seem like when my husband is done with alone time that he is all jazzed and enthusiastic like I am when finding out new concepts. I asked him about the whole idea of introverts getting energy from being alone and he says it’s more like just restoring homeostasis. We can also need to process and be alone but I also get much more energy and excitement about everything than any introvert I know for greater lengths of time. They might get kind of jazzed and happy about something, but it’s not like mine where I have much more energy— but then I also have more energy and enthusiasm than many extroverts, and I test as being around 1-5% extrovert because I am socially sometimes shy and mostly would prefer to go down a Wikipedia rabbit hole than go to a social gathering. I also prefer one on one talks the most by far.

I like looking at what is known about extroverts and introverts from neuroscience. There in a chemical found in more abundance in extroverts that suppresses the impact of negative information, making them more willing to go after things that they are pursuing— with us information and new experiences that an introvert might find more excuses not to do. We also tolerate joy better, actually (yeah there was a study on that shown to me by the INFP forum a while back and we had a big talk about it. I have talked to my husband at length about it. Joy is seen as a bit destabilizing for them and they can’t be their usual selves. Me, Jm always pursuing joy and excitement. My introverts take smaller sips of these.
Anyway, that’s just one aspect. My husband could really write a textbook on it and would probably like to.
 

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The one thing I notice between Ne doms vs Ne aux is that - Ne doms are less prone to hold onto to details and are more optimistic- we kinda see the positive side of things and have the mentality of what’s the point of worrying when you can work through it - whereas Inxp are more prone to seeing the flaws in a situation and worry about it .
I don’t think one talks more or less than the other or crave external feedback as much- I don’t need to have the last to say and if I know for a fact that I couldn’t change someone’s mind I’m not going to bother.
If it’s pertaining to group of 3 or less I cant tell who’s more introverted between the 2 ( Ne dom vs Ne aux) bc Np users can be very talkative when they’re intrigued/explaining something, however if we were to be in a public setting or if we’re out socializing at a party , I do notice a difference - extrovert don’t mind conversing with a new strangers as much and find them amusing and would reciprocate the conversations; whereas introverts will have more of a “why is this stranger talking “ I have been asked by my infp friend before “ why are you talking to that person? You don’t even know him.”
so perhaps the acceptance of change decipher the 2- extrovert enjoys jumping into what’s new - introvert prefers familiarity.
I believe an infp on here was writing about how he differs from his enfp friend in the sense that - he could dream up of traveling cross country but if the situation was to be brought up to him without a few weeks -month notice he’ll rather idealize about going whereas his enfp friend would excitedly dive into that opportunity , another factor he brought in that I agree with was he doesn’t mind taking the bus or sit through traffic for 30 minutes whereas the enfp would rather drive 1 hour without traffic due to impulsiveness and the fear of boredom in traffic .
The key differences is the energy level - Ne dom if intrigue can focus and engage in activity longer than Ne aux.


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If it's not the preferred function that distinguishes them, then what does?
Well, if we use MBTI it's basically how social they are, since the MBTI only uses dichotomies to put you in a type and not how strongly you prefer each. The E/I in modern psychology research uses Eysenck's theories which pertain to responsiveness to people and social behavior in general. Someone with social anxieties will likely type introvert in this even if he's extravert by Jung, because the system that deals with those situations is a bit effed up.


Can you clarify what you mean by object-oriented?


Can you summarise these definitions?

-Albert.
In short, extraversion is openness to be influenced by the object and change yourself, introversion is being defensive against that. The Jungian introvert will abstract from the object what they need/want/can tolerate and block out the rest out of the necessity to avoid being overwhelmed. This has application far beyond the social sphere, since the object is everything that exists outside of our organism, it's basically how we adapt to the world as a whole, and how we solve our cognitive dissonances when they appear. The Extravert (especially NE) is more likely to seek conflicting stimuli to refine their understanding and change their perspectives, the introvert is more likely to fall into confirmation bias because of the need to be on top & in control of how the environment affects them. We all have both drives in us but one is more developed and guides our general attitude.

So for Ns especially, extraversion or introversion will show up in intellectual attitude perhaps more so than social attitude. I've said it before but I think it's likely that N doms type more I than E, even, because of what those questions ask.

Personally, I understand well why I became socially anxious and it was because of extraversion rather than being introverted in the eysenck theory, but because of the anxiety I behave similarly to intros.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Basically I want more input constantly and am not easily satisfied. I’m pretty relentless about seeking constant info and pursuing questions.
When I have a dialogue that is not in real-time, eg. e-mail or postal mail, I really hate it when the other person omits answering my questions, or otherwise fails to comment on what I'm seeking feedback on.

When discussing things, my Ne aux family will pursue with me for a bit (or a bit longer, depending) and at some point I am going to want to keep talking about concepts at at some point they are going to get tired and need to retreat into alone time for homeostasis.
I don't generally do this. However, as I remarked elsewhere, sometimes an interaction can bring me out of balance, making me irritated and irritable and in an otherwise negative mood. Most conversations do not cause this, only ones that turn "sour" or something like that.

It doesn’t seem like when my husband is done with alone time that he is all jazzed and enthusiastic like I am when finding out new concepts. I asked him about the whole idea of introverts getting energy from being alone and he says it’s more like just restoring homeostasis.
Right. I don't need that unless something goes wrong with an interaction. I can usually keep my composure just fine.

We can also need to process and be alone but I also get much more energy and excitement about everything than any introvert I know for greater lengths of time. They might get kind of jazzed and happy about something, but it’s not like mine where I have much more energy— but then I also have more energy and enthusiasm than many extroverts, ...
I'm sorry that I don't get that. It is largely due to mental disorder in the form of residual depression, and not as a result of any personality trait.

... and I test as being around 1-5% extrovert because I am socially sometimes shy and mostly would prefer to go down a Wikipedia rabbit hole than go to a social gathering. I also prefer one on one talks the most by far.
Yeah me too, except that I usually test more introverted, but for similar reasons.

I like looking at what is known about extroverts and introverts from neuroscience. There in a chemical found in more abundance in extroverts that suppresses the impact of negative information, making them more willing to go after things that they are pursuing—
Sounds like dopamine. It does not really suppress negative information, but it is more accurate to say that it increases the "weight", the significance, of the positive/rewarding alternative(s).

with us information and new experiences that an introvert might find more excuses not to do. We also tolerate joy better, actually (yeah there was a study on that shown to me by the INFP forum a while back and we had a big talk about it. I have talked to my husband at length about it. Joy is seen as a bit destabilizing for them and they can’t be their usual selves. Me, Jm always pursuing joy and excitement. My introverts take smaller sips of these.
Wow, "tolerate joy"! I never had a problem with that, unless you mean mania.

-Albert.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The one thing I notice between Ne doms vs Ne aux is that - Ne doms are less prone to hold onto to details and are more optimistic- we kinda see the positive side of things and have the mentality of what’s the point of worrying when you can work through it - whereas Inxp are more prone to seeing the flaws in a situation and worry about it .
Then I'm a Ne-dom, but if I were more depressed, I'd be a Ne-aux.

... if we were to be in a public setting or if we’re out socializing at a party , I do notice a difference - extrovert don’t mind conversing with a new strangers as much and find them amusing and would reciprocate the conversations; whereas introverts will have more of a “why is this stranger talking “ I have been asked by my infp friend before “ why are you talking to that person? You don’t even know him.”
so perhaps the acceptance of change decipher the 2- extrovert enjoys jumping into what’s new - introvert prefers familiarity.
Then I'm an extravert. Out of habit, I would not initiate the conversation but I would gladly reciprocate.

I believe an infp on here was writing about how he differs from his enfp friend in the sense that - he could dream up of traveling cross country but if the situation was to be brought up to him without a few weeks -month notice he’ll rather idealize about going whereas his enfp friend would excitedly dive into that opportunity , another factor he brought in that I agree with was he doesn’t mind taking the bus or sit through traffic for 30 minutes whereas the enfp would rather drive 1 hour without traffic due to impulsiveness and the fear of boredom in traffic .
I can relate more to the ENFP way.

The key differences is the energy level - Ne dom if intrigue can focus and engage in activity longer than Ne aux.
I don't know who to compare to. Depression can and often does take away my energy, or failing that, at least my enthusiasm.

-Albert.
 

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The one thing I notice between Ne doms vs Ne aux is that - Ne doms are less prone to hold onto to details and are more optimistic- we kinda see the positive side of things and have the mentality of what’s the point of worrying when you can work through it - whereas Inxp are more prone to seeing the flaws in a situation and worry about it .
I don’t think one talks more or less than the other or crave external feedback as much- I don’t need to have the last to say and if I know for a fact that I couldn’t change someone’s mind I’m not going to bother.
If it’s pertaining to group of 3 or less I cant tell who’s more introverted between the 2 ( Ne dom vs Ne aux) bc Np users can be very talkative when they’re intrigued/explaining something, however if we were to be in a public setting or if we’re out socializing at a party , I do notice a difference - extrovert don’t mind conversing with a new strangers as much and find them amusing and would reciprocate the conversations; whereas introverts will have more of a “why is this stranger talking “ I have been asked by my infp friend before “ why are you talking to that person? You don’t even know him.”
so perhaps the acceptance of change decipher the 2- extrovert enjoys jumping into what’s new - introvert prefers familiarity.
I believe an infp on here was writing about how he differs from his enfp friend in the sense that - he could dream up of traveling cross country but if the situation was to be brought up to him without a few weeks -month notice he’ll rather idealize about going whereas his enfp friend would excitedly dive into that opportunity , another factor he brought in that I agree with was he doesn’t mind taking the bus or sit through traffic for 30 minutes whereas the enfp would rather drive 1 hour without traffic due to impulsiveness and the fear of boredom in traffic .
The key differences is the energy level - Ne dom if intrigue can focus and engage in activity longer than Ne aux.


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These are excellent points...! :)
Personally, I don't notice a clear difference between xNFPs and "chatter" habits.
Everyone seems to differ here, without rhyme or reason.
Some ENFPs prefer to coverse (or even monologue) at length on a certain topic; due to strong interest, or the world-famous Ne thoughtspiral. This can happen more or less frequently depending on individual mechanics.

Missing details... yes, I find this true, also.

My INFP friend seems to enjoy familiar home environments, family members/friends, and situations in general.
I am more likely to search out new things intentionally, and suffer from wanderlust/restlessness.
Another interesting difference is that I prefer to work and study in public.
Not to socialize, but because it's difficult to focus alone or in silence.
 

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Well, if we use MBTI it's basically how social they are, since the MBTI only uses dichotomies to put you in a type and not how strongly you prefer each.
Right. In this context, I would be introverted due residual social anxiety/phobia and due to habitually not taking the first step socially. Even so, the more I am healing psychologically, the more social I tend to become.

Anyway, I do feel this is the wrong approach to E/I. Especially so if extraverts can be shy, which they can.

The E/I in modern psychology research uses Eysenck's theories which pertain to responsiveness to people and social behavior in general. Someone with social anxieties will likely type introvert in this even if he's extravert by Jung, because the system that deals with those situations is a bit effed up.
I'm reading the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion

An interesting classification, proposed by Susan Cain, is the preference for high- (E) vs. low- (I) stimulating environments. In this context, I'm an extravert.

In short, extraversion is openness to be influenced by the object and change yourself, introversion is being defensive against that. The Jungian introvert will abstract from the object what they need/want/can tolerate and block out the rest out of the necessity to avoid being overwhelmed. This has application far beyond the social sphere, since the object is everything that exists outside of our organism, it's basically how we adapt to the world as a whole, and how we solve our cognitive dissonances when they appear. The Extravert (especially NE) is more likely to seek conflicting stimuli to refine their understanding and change their perspectives, the introvert is more likely to fall into confirmation bias because of the need to be on top & in control of how the environment affects them. We all have both drives in us but one is more developed and guides our general attitude.
It sounds like I'm extraverted. I very rarely get overwhelmed, and I don't feel at all like I have to be on my guard against influence from the outer world.

As for cognitive dissonance, it does not bother me much, and I even embrace it at times. I readily hold mutually contradictive ideas in my mind at the same time.

So for Ns especially, extraversion or introversion will show up in intellectual attitude perhaps more so than social attitude. I've said it before but I think it's likely that N doms type more I than E, even, because of what those questions ask.
What do you mean by intellectual attitude?

-Albert.
 

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As for cognitive dissonance, it does not bother me much, and I even embrace it at times. I readily hold mutually contradictive ideas in my mind at the same time.
this can potentially be a source of emotional turmoil, dissonance is not generally a good thing so I'm unsure if you mean it the same way I do


What do you mean by intellectual attitude?

-Albert.
Simply that N in general is probably more focused on things like understanding the world rather than seeking social stimuli the same way as S do. For example, Sensors tend to wanna relate more to a certain culture, whether the dominant of their country or a subculture because they derive meaning and purpose from those immediate, tangible (as they perceive) categorizations/labels. Even when they don't wanna have a label, they still end up placing themselves under one, like the whole gender debate thing in recent years. They have a much higher need to concretize their identities into something they perceive as tangible. So I think the social attitudes of sensors aren't always very relatable to Ns (esp. N doms) and this likely plays a role in how it's being tested.
 

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this can potentially be a source of emotional turmoil, dissonance is not generally a good thing so I'm unsure if you mean it the same way I do
I meant mutually contradictive/incoherent ideas/hypotheses, not emotions. For example, Freudian and neuroscientific theory/models, which do not readily fit together coherently, or the concept of a soul/spirit separate from the body/brain on one hand, and the influence of the brain on personality on the other hand.

Sometimes I do have mixed feelings about something, but that is not usually a problem.

Simply that N in general is probably more focused on things like understanding the world rather than seeking social stimuli the same way as S do. For example, Sensors tend to wanna relate more to a certain culture, whether the dominant of their country or a subculture because they derive meaning and purpose from those immediate, tangible (as they perceive) categorizations/labels. Even when they don't wanna have a label, they still end up placing themselves under one, like the whole gender debate thing in recent years. They have a much higher need to concretize their identities into something they perceive as tangible. So I think the social attitudes of sensors aren't always very relatable to Ns (esp. N doms) and this likely plays a role in how it's being tested.
OK, so Ns are more into relating to non-human objects, including abstractions. But how does one "extravert" with such objects? I'm trying to figure out examples of what one could ask a person to test for extraversion/introversion but which is not about relating to people. Playing many computer games on a basic level (extraversion?) as opposed to playing and mastering one or two games more extensively (introversion)? Getting energy from interacting with smartphones (extraversion?) or getting drained by the same (introversion)?

Maybe you can point me to a personality test that uses non-social I/E questions?

In other words, I guess I am looking for things that determine I/E without being subject to influence by shyness.

-Albert.
 

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All right... in summary, there are really a lot of things that suggest that I'm extraverted.

An important exception is the view of extraversion as social outgoingness, or more specifically, extraversion that is based on activities which are inversely correlated with shyness.

As far as Jung's view of extraversion is concerned, I would seem to be an extravert, because I'm not actively defensive against influence from outer objects. That is not to say I am easily influenced, it only means I'm not really concerned about influence, or being overwhelmed by objects (such as people).

I also seem to be more energised than drained by social interaction.

And I prefer more highly stimulating surroundings, rather than feeling overwhelmed.

Finally, as I overcome shyness and otherwise heal psychologically, I get more and more socially extraverted, which would seem to indicate that extraversion is my "true" preference in the absence of mental disorder.

For these reasons, and especially because Jung's theories weigh heavily in the context of Jungian type theory, I think I am just about ready to conclude that I am an extravert.

That would make me an ENP rather than just NP. However, the T/F still remains to be determined.

-Albert.
 
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