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Which is why i wouldn't recommend using MBTI for real life situations... everything varies from person to person and once you become more accustomed to people you will have your own internal system not some generalised MBTI system.


I think MBTI is for socially inept people, and since they are inept they cant the the truth and therefore assume this is the truth.

enjoy your lies :)
So if MBTI is for socially inept people, that would make you socially inept and unable to see the truth, since you have SOME interest in it. Keep in mind there's a difference between the MBTI system and Carl Jung's ideas about cognitive functions. And at least the introversion/extroversion dimension is thought to have biological origins in the brain, for instance, introverts have more stimulation in the frontal cortex of the brain.

Any ways it is an ignorant statement to say MBTI is for socially inept people who can't figure out "the truth", kind of ironic, isn't it.
 

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I've been really shy at one point, and more than other extroverts I've been going into my own world to recharge. Now I'm known as extroverted because I will dive into social situations but I will also choose to spend time alone to be with my non-human interests.

I've noticed that both EN_Ps take longer to recharge, even though generally we will speak comfortably to strangers.

Also, at least for ENFPs, we are sometimes known as the most introverted of extroverts. I think this is because we have a socially unusual extroverted function (intuition), and are introverted feelers..we sort out our problems more in private or one on one compared to my E_FJ friends who are more comfortable, and have more need to discuss their emotional issues with their friends to sort them through.

If I see someone always with their particular group of friends, I have a hard time telling whether they're an introvert or extrovert, because they are in their comfort zone.
 

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Being shy depends on the person's mood, environment and feelings towards other people......... Life doesn't revolve around MBTI, MBTI is just a very hazy way at trying to put all the puzzle peices together with very disoriented and scattered ideas of MBTI, puzzle peices..

Which is why i wouldn't recommend using MBTI for real life situations... everything varies from person to person and once you become more accustomed to people you will have your own internal system not some generalised MBTI system.


I think MBTI is for socially inept people, and since they are inept they cant the the truth and therefore assume this is the truth.

enjoy your lies :)
teddy564339, it says Munchies is ENTP in his profile but I don't know if I buy it... "..MBTI is for socially inept people, and since they are inept they cant the[see?] the truth.." This is so conceptually vague it seems to be a poor demonstration of Ti. He doesn't sound at all like ENTPs I know in person. For the least, _NTPs are known for being very verbally concise.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
teddy564339, it says Munchies is ENTP in his profile but I don't know if I buy it... "..MBTI is for socially inept people, and since they are inept they cant the[see?] the truth.." This is so conceptually vague it seems to be a poor demonstration of Ti. He doesn't sound at all like ENTPs I know in person. For the least, _NTPs are known for being very verbally concise.
Ah. In all fairness, most of the NT's that I know are people I've talked to online, so maybe that makes the situation a little different.

I said ENT because NT's usually seem to be the people most likely to pick apart the details of ideas and theories based on detailed evidence and proof before they buy into it, and I thought E because of all of the talk of being socially inept.

So it was just a hunch that lined up in this case. I still have a lot to learn about all of the N types, so I'm still in the process of figuring out a lot of stuff!
 

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I'm an INFJ, ) I have a need to interject myself into situations and even confrontations. In other words, some people can go '"la la la la, I'm oblivious to so much''. Extraverted feeling means I have a desire for everything in my environment to be peaceful.
:))
Good insight into what drives extraverted feeling types
 

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Your thoughts make sense Teddy, and the definition is always the best place to start to create a foundation. In this case shyness generally associates with fear and anxiety. Jung did describe introverts as shy in saying:
Who does not know those taciturn, impenetrable, often shy natures, who form such a vivid contrast to these other open, sociable, serene maybe, or at least friendly and accessible characters, who are on good terms with all the world, or, even when disagreeing with it, still hold a relation to it by which they and it are mutually affected.
But he made that claim 100 years ago, and words change their meaning over time, no different than Myers-Briggs using the word technical to equate to mechanical.

But the American Psychology Association does not see shyness equal to introversion any longer. I am far from shy but I can be very reserved and taciturn even around people I know well. I just like my own company. This article may shed some light, but this is part of what it says about introversion/shyness:
Unlike introverts, who prefer spending time alone, many shy people want to enjoy the company of others. "They force themselves to go to social functions, parties, bars, concerts," says Carducci, who is also the author of Shyness: A Bold New Approach.

"The problem is they don't know what to do once they're there." Jeremy Ruggles, a network administrator in Davie, Fla., says he tends to get nervous and lose his train of thought whenever he talks with someone new. "It has been seen as rude or odd." So what makes a person shy? According to the American Psychological Association, genetics and natural temperament play a small role. Other factors include:

· Stressful life events, such as moving often during childhood
· Negative family interactions, including overly critical parents
· Stressful work or school environments
So to answer your question, I don’t think that shy equates to introversion since it again relates to someone suffering from stressful events and more so equates to being somewhat cowardly:
Definitions of shyness on the Web:
· a feeling of fear of embarrassment
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
· In humans, shyness (also called diffidence) is a social psychology term used to describe the feeling of apprehension, lack of confidence, or awkwardness experienced when a person is in proximity to, approaching, or being approached by other people, especially in new situations or with unfamiliar ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyness
The quality of being shy; a fear of social interactions
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shyness
 

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I'm not completely sure, to tell the truth. I definitely don't feel like an extravert, but I don't feel like a complete introvert. I mean, socializing doesn't boost my energy, but it doesn't really exhaust me either. I mostly feel nothing when I talk to people---although I'll sometimes feel a bit awkward. That's what's wrong with the MBTI---although it can help you understand people better, it doesn't completely define the person because people are more complex than a 4 letter code. It's difficult to guess someone's preferences unless they have big preferences---for example, if someone is an extreme introvert and gets completely exhausted from talking, they're definitely an introvert. But what if they are in between, like me? What if they mostly don't feel anything when they talk? Oh well. I guess I'm an XNFP...or an ENFP. I'm can't be sure.

About the thread, I'd have to say that despite what everyone believes, I think introverts are more prone to shyness than extraverts, although there are some shy extraverts. I think some introverts take offense when people assume they are shy, so they don't believe shyness has anything to do with types. I'm not saying if you are an introvert, you're automatically shy, it just means that introverts are more suspectible to it.
 

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I'm an INFJ, and pretty true to type.

I would agree that IxFx's are probably least likely to 'make waves' due to type. I would also argue that as a 'J' and someone who uses Fe (extraverted feeling) (which ISFJ's also use) I have a need to interject myself into situations and even confrontations. In other words, some people can go '"la la la la, I'm oblivious to so much''. Extraverted feeling means I have a desire for everything in my environment to be peaceful.

So, my argument is that Fe probably causes a great deal of shyness amongst introverts. I think a really strong J would also be bad, because it prevents the 'try and see' sort of conversations. P's seem more easy going.

Lastly a personal observation. I am very loud and outgoing in two situations: 1) where I know everyone 2) where I know no one. Anything in between, and I am kind of awkward. If the situation or conversation is charged with emotion - I am more likely not to talk. I am also very very very shy around members of the opposite sex that I like (and I am 25 - so it's kind of pathetic rather than cute :))
[INxx here] I was very shy throughout my teenage years, but it was mostly because I thought something was wrong with me. I actually think learning about MBTI has helped me to overcome some of that, because it puts my "abstract" mindset into words and treats it as being normal.

I have always been more open with close friends and family. To this day, I still have to warm-up to people who aren't in that circle. And online communication like this is a world of difference from interpersonal communication. Ever since I started using myspace and facebook and all of that, I noticed that I expressed myself SO MUCH better in the written format. Also, a girl that I liked in high school, who is now unfortuantley married to someone else, has been an e-mail pen pal of mine, and I could tell her anything, as long as it's in writing. I wonder if shy extroverts are shy for a different reason.

Anyway, I quoted Sarah Williams just to let her know that she's not alone. I am a 27 year old guy and people will tell me that my face is as red as a tomato when I'm around a member of the opposite sex that I am attracted to. :unsure:

Most of my shyness that has still lingered with me is currently concentrated in that area. I really want to do something about that. I tried online dating for a little bit, but I really think the timing isn't right. I need to get a job first, but you can bet that this will be the first thing that I will work on overcoming, if I ever do.
 

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I'd say shyness has to do with nervousness. It's not necessarily an I thing. I'm not an E, but I can see how an E can be shy. It is however more common for an I than an E person.

From various personal experiences, I tend to freeze up around people who want to know me, but I don't know them. I'm uncomfortable around people I don't know and that nervousness causes me to not be expressive about it and I just have to get away.
 

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The last one could be true. Being introverted doen't mean you are shy, it jsut means that you think before you speak (along with other things, like being enrgized by having some alone time or being one of the early birds to leave a party). I would like to say that I am introverted but I am not shy. Being quiet doesn't mean you are shy.

i actually think that shyness relates more to if you are a sensor or inuitive. Also judging and perceiving. Sensors are more confident I think, becasue they are in teh here and now, while intuits someties feel like the common man doesn't understand them becasue they are always looking at eagle eye level.

Also judgers i feel like are more confident becasue they know what they want and won't change easily. Perceivers on the other hand let the external environment guide them and concentrate more on their inner world which they don't easily share.

So i think that its not introverted and extraverted that ties with your confidence or shyness but more the sensing vs intuition and perceiving vs. judging. I actually think that Introverts are more confident than many extraverts.
 

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The last one could be true. Being introverted doen't mean you are shy, it jsut means that you think before you speak (along with other things, like being enrgized by having some alone time or being one of the early birds to leave a party). I would like to say that I am introverted but I am not shy. Being quiet doesn't mean you are shy.

i actually think that shyness relates more to if you are a sensor or inuitive. Also judging and perceiving. Sensors are more confident I think, becasue they are in teh here and now, while intuits someties feel like the common man doesn't understand them becasue they are always looking at eagle eye level.

Also judgers i feel like are more confident becasue they know what they want and won't change easily. Perceivers on the other hand let the external environment guide them and concentrate more on their inner world which they don't easily share.

So i think that its not introverted and extraverted that ties with your confidence or shyness but more the sensing vs intuition and perceiving vs. judging. I actually think that Introverts are more confident than many extraverts.
This is an interesting line of thought - I'm apt to think though, that people are apt to act shy in different environments. For example, while an SJ might be more comfortable in a "traditional" college party with drinking, might look shy if it's a more unusual social environment, or one that jumps on a newly discovered relationship. Like _NFPs have a penchant for deep conversations and so we can find a quick one-on-one personal bonding much easier than making small talk in a large social environment (which while doable feels almost like we're losing touch with ourselves).

Also, rather than thinking judging vs perceiving, I would separate intuitives' j vs p and sensors' j vs p. Intuitive Js become Ni+Se, which shares the same direction for perception functions as sensing Ps. This in some ways makes SPs and NJs more similar to one another, and NPs and SJs.I don't know how to articulate it but I have noticed more in common between these pairs in social situations as well than first meets the eye. :laughing:
 

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i actually think that shyness relates more to if you are a sensor or inuitive. Also judging and perceiving. Sensors are more confident I think, becasue they are in teh here and now, while intuits someties feel like the common man doesn't understand them becasue they are always looking at eagle eye level.

Also judgers i feel like are more confident becasue they know what they want and won't change easily. Perceivers on the other hand let the external environment guide them and concentrate more on their inner world which they don't easily share.

So i think that its not introverted and extraverted that ties with your confidence or shyness but more the sensing vs intuition and perceiving vs. judging. I actually think that Introverts are more confident than many extraverts.

Very interesting. It's funny you mention that because we're the same type (ISFJ). The difference is you say you're not shy, and I...well, I'm kind of figuring it out, but I would say that I exhibit at least some shyness.


I see your point about the S/N. I had always felt that S's might be more shy because they are so more aware of what's going on around them in social situations that it would affect them more.

Kind of the same thing with J/P. I had viewed judgers are more likely to be shy because P's would be more apt to go with the flow of a conversation and not let things bother them, where as a J (especially an SJ) would be apt to have a strong memory of what people are saying and thinking, and thus more likely to let it make them nervous.

However, I do think my points only apply to SFJ's. An ESTJ, for example, strikes me as the least shy of all of the types. So, your points make a lot of sense.



But I think this thread has completely reinforced the fact that type dictates nothing when it comes to shyness. There are outgoing and shy people of all 16 types, and even though it's fun to try to figure out, I think it's impossible to say whether one type is more likely to be shy than any other.

(Though if I had to take a stab at it, I would guess ESTJ is the least likely and INFP is the most likely :p ).

glycerol said:
The last one could be true. Being introverted doen't mean you are shy, it jsut means that you think before you speak (along with other things, like being enrgized by having some alone time or being one of the early birds to leave a party). I would like to say that I am introverted but I am not shy. Being quiet doesn't mean you are shy.
This is also a main key point of this entire thread. I'm still not exactly sure, but for the most part I think I've learned a lot more about what shyness is, and I've realized I'm probably less shy than I thought I was. I still think I'm more shy than a number of people, but I also think that I come across as more shy than I am, because people perceive me being quiet as being shy.




So I did kind of want to reiterate that...even though I'm having fun throwing out my musings about how shyness relates to type, I still understand that there's no strong, definite connection between the two. But I've learned a lot from this thread anyway, and that was the whole point! :)
 
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For me, I've always been a bit shy, but I feel as if my shyness and introversion have fueled each other. I mean, one-on-one with good friends, I never shut the hell up. But in groups, especially with people I don't know very well, I barely talk at all. Sometimes, I'm not really shy, I just choose not to talk (introversion, there), but alot of times I feel VERY self conscious and awkward, so I just don't talk. I agree with the correlation, as because I'm anxious about socializing, I've learned to be independant, and because of that I feel different; hence, more social anxiety. But there are other factors. Analyzing my thoughts, I probably have an anxiety disorder or something (probably being hypochondriac, but still...), and I also get alot of intrusive negative thoughts, especially about the way I present myself (I always think I'm f*cked up, or wierd, or make social situations awkward simply with my presence). I can be very impulsive, though, and sometimes I do act without thinking and make an ass off myself, further driving me away from people. I'm on a bit of a tangent here, but, while I do agree with the correlation, there's also tons of other factors.
 

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I also think that some introverts use that as an excuse for shyness, which I also think is wrong.
Apologies if I am getting the wrong end of the stick here, but why do the shy need an excuse for being shy, as if to say this is unacceptable or wrong?

The shy are not simply cowards either (not that you said they were), they are merely more (socially) fearful. Fear does not equal cowardice, in fact it is a pre-requisite of bravery, so the shy may be forced to be braver than the non-shy!

Finally, if an introvert prefers to be alone, then they probably do spend more time alone. That means they probably won't get as much social experience as an extravert, which may make them more uncomfortable in social situations until they get that experience.
That's why I think there probably is a correlation, just not an overwhelming one. It just so happens I'm closest to the INFP model, and am shy. Personally I think the MBTI descriptions are written with the presumption that Es aren't shy, which is wrong.
And don't get me wrong, I know that (a) there are plenty of other factors outside of the MBTI which relate to/affect shyness, and (b) that no one person is totally extraverted or introverted, and that some introverts are more introverted than others, and so on. So I know there's more to it than just what type someone is.
I'm shy because I hate being judged, and am very critical of my public 'performance'. How shy I am depends on the degree to which I feel I might be being judged (including by myself). That's why I can sometimes talk in a relatively relaxed way with total strangers that are talkative and easy-going, but maybe this is partly because I know I'll probably never see them again, so have less to lose.
 

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I/E Shyness and the Other Three Initials

When you questioned, "do any of the other three letters have anything to do with shyness", at first, I thought of the Thinking and Feeling. If you think about it, a Feeler is more likely to keep their thoughts to themselves (not speak as openly) so as not to hurt others' feelings, so they could be (mis)taken as shy or self-kept, even if they're introverted. Also, the N/S relates to shyness; iNtroverts ususally think in their heads and more abstractly, thus the probability leading to an "introverted" nature from reluctance to share their abstract and personal thoughts. Sensers, however, are more "get-the-job-done" types, so they'll utilize all information if it appears relevant and will share that information, resulting in an extroverted-appearing nature. Finally, I don't believe the P/J has much to do with the shyness. I mean, you would think that Percievers would be more outgoing and freelancing than Judgers, but that's not always true; Obviously, according to Jung, people who Judge could be Extroverted and people who Percieve can be Introverted, so I don't think that the final two letters relate to shyness in any extremity.

(Sorry if this sounded "airheady"; I wrote this at 1:27 AM. Sorry, tried to help. ~♥)
 

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I am quiet in a group, although I'm told by most that I usually end up in the lead of a group. I tend to think my shyness just happens. Such as I will sit with a group and not speek untill I have thought through what I want to say and know that it's worth speaking making me mostly silent for some time. I don't think I'm shy cuz of my introversion....I'm introverted cuz I'm shy.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Apologies if I am getting the wrong end of the stick here, but why do the shy need an excuse for being shy, as if to say this is unacceptable or wrong?

The shy are not simply cowards either (not that you said they were), they are merely more (socially) fearful. Fear does not equal cowardice, in fact it is a pre-requisite of bravery, so the shy may be forced to be braver than the non-shy!

Well, you have to understand that most of my thread ideas are linked to my own personal experiences and situations, not hypothetical musings. Typical S reasoning for you, particularly from an ISFJ who has dominant Si. :p


I guess it's just that in my experience some people have acted like me being shy is a bad thing and think that I should be more outgoing. It's not a really big deal to me personally, but it gets annoying when my close friends want to do something as a group with the kind of people I just referred to. It's just something I deal with from time to time, and it helps me to feel better to talk to people on here to see how it relates to type, if it does at all.

So I think for me everything has been based on my own personal experiences rather than me making an objective argument about the quality of shyness. Nonetheless, I'm glad you mentioned this different perspective on the matter! :)
 
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it depends on the situation. If I enter a room with a few friends that introduce me to a set of new people I am very backward. If I go for a job interview I am very outgoing one on one but when a crowd is there and I am the new person I shut down. When I am in my comfort zone at home and a new person is here I am very talkive. If I meet friends of a boyfriend I am usualy talkative at first but soon after I go inward, once I have a relationship with the boyfriend.

I have been told ppl think I am a bitch or antisocial or better than... but they dont get it and I am none of things at all
 

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I may be wrong here, but what I'm starting to think is that being an extravert and being shy is more difficult for a person. For a shy extravert, they want to spend time in group settings but find themselves getting nervous, so things are more miserable for them.

Try being an extravert with social anxiety. :sad: I know mine came on because of problems with all kinds of peers and that I didn't start out with it. I was shy but that was the extent of it. It's very difficult to overcome when it's gotten to the point of social anxiety. I used to have relatives come over and they'd all be talking with the rest of my family in the living room and I'd be in my bedroom suffering major anxiety because I wanted to go out but some irresistible force wouldn't allow me to. No matter how much they called me antisocial or snobby, it was still impossible. My anxiety is very selective it seems though and I don't have it very often.

However, when it comes to overcoming shyness, an extravert is at least motivated by the desire to spend more time with people and work on finding ways to deal with their social nervousness.
The motivation is there but if it's gotten to the social anxiety point, it's a lot harder no matter how much you want to.

The more I think about this personally the more I'm starting to re-examine the details of it. I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out in big social settings how much I display my introversion and how much I display my shyness.
For me it's not the bigness, for some reason it's the pressure I think.

I think for me a big part of it has to deal with me being an ISFJ and me dealing with my own confidence. I have such a strong Si that I tend to remember all kinds of details of conversations and social situations, and since Fe is my auxiliary function, I tend to be very aware of what people around me are thinking or feeling. So when I'm in a big social setting, I care so much about what everyone else thinks. It's like instead of being myself, I want to put forth an image that will please everyone else.
I'm the same way. My Si is apparently average so maybe that's why. You sound just like me though (don't be offended now lol)

When I'm one-on-one with someone, this is easy. But when I'm in a group, it's like I feel the need to be a lot of different people, instead of just being myself. As a result, I end up feeling like I can't do that all at once, so I resign myself to saying nothing.
That makes no difference for me, it's the pressure. In groups I feel more of a need to acknowledge and/or include everyone in the conversation somehow so maybe I just don't have the resources to go beyond that.

I guess this is shyness, too. But it also takes so much effort for me to "put on this act" that it wears me out. I've always felt like the reason why I get energy from being by myself is that that's the only time when I'm completely by myself.
I would think it does. My masks wear me down, but that has nothing to do with socializing those are just to hide my misery. I used to think I used alone time to recharge from interaction but it wasn't that at all, it's my overexertion in social situations and the way I get hyper or excited. It's a good thing I don't have ADHD I can't imagine being any worse that way, but at least mine only involves social situations, not 24/7 because my brain is wired that way.

I'm kind of rambling now but...I think my biggest issue is that as much as I try not to, I can't help but care what people think about me. I don't want to blame this on me being an ISFJ, but I certainly think that contributes to it, with the whole Si and Fe thing I mentioned earlier. If what I exhibit really is shyness, it seems like this is the source.
Again this sounds exactly like me. I doubt that's the source, I think past experiences are the problem as with me. If not for those past experriences I'd be a much different person that's for sure.

I'm still working on it a lot, and I am happy to say my confidence has really shot up a lot in the last year. To me that's my starting point, and I'm hoping me being able to brush off other people's negativity and bad impressions will start coming out from that.
If you figure out how let me know lol.

I can't help but agree with you on this one. People talk about the huge difference between S/N all of the time, but I always feel a bigger difference between T/F and E/I. I always find it funny when I see people post about an ISFJ and an INFP not getting along, because I feel like I'm the most comfortable with INFP's, INFJ's, and ISFP's.
Apparently I'm not supposed to feel comfortable with some people as well but type has nothing to do with it. I feel like I can talk to most types as long as there's something interesting to talk about to both of us. I try to get along with everyone too so maybe that has something to do with it.

I think it comes from the fact that IF's tend to be so sensitive that we keep so much inside and come across as cold. That mis-communication makes it difficult for us to form relationships.
I've come across as cold often but that's usually under stress. I know how you feel though. I become an INTJ under stress so maybe that's why. I find miscommunication hurts existing relationships as well. I get quite upset if I feel like I've inadvertently offended someone and wish to try and fix that as soon as possible if possible.

Hopefully this has been useful.
 
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Oh, I can be shy at times. My shyness factor is kind of weird, though.

I do best in big group settings - that's when I find myself the most at ease; however, put my in a large group of people to give a public speech, I will freak out. It's so nerve-wrecking for me. Unless, of course, somebody else wrote the speech - then it's fine. I just can't read my own stuff in front of a crowd.

One-on-one settings usually scare the shit out of me. At times, if put in a one-on-one situation, I can tense up even worse than I do when I have to give a public speech. I absolutely HATE just being with one person at a time - it just doesn't feel comfortable to me; however, if doing something like a job interview, I NEED a one-on-one interview! I cannot, for the life of me, be in a room with 5 different managers looking me down, asking me questions, and trying to make a decision!

To put it simply: I am mostly shy when it comes to needing to do/say things that relate to me personally - such as telling managers WHY I am the best candidate for a job, or having to read something that I personally wrote to a large group of people. I think this probably stems from the major lack of confidence I had in myself as a child. I pretty much had less than 10% confidence in myself as a child (and even through my teen years), and I would say I now have about 95% confidence in myself. I still need to find that other 5% somewhere - then perhaps I wouldn't be shy when having to talk highly of myself to upper positions of authority (managers, professors, etc.)

I hope this makes sense.
 
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