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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here it is people, the simplest and most clear way to identify all of the different function processes:


SUBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT FUNCTIONS vs OBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT FUNCTIONS

Subjective judgement functions (Fi/Ti) strive to create and maintain their own personal rulebook, whereas Objective judgement functions strive to ascertain THE rulebook (Fe/Te). Subjective judgement creates a personal opinion based on experiences, whereas Objective judgement believes a definitive single "truth" already pre-exists and needs to be mapped out.

So this is why Fi/Ti looks inward for answers and opinions, whereas Fe/Te searches outward for which thoughts/beliefs are correct.


CREATIVE PERCEPTION FUNCTIONS vs ACCUMULATING PERCEPTION FUNCTIONS

Creative perception functions (Ne/Se) seek to create new perceptions based off experiences/information, whereas accumulating perception functions (Ni/Si) try to accumulate and refine existing perceptions.

This is why Ne/Se prefer brand new experiences, because those are where the greatest quantity of new perceptions can be created, whereas Ni/Si generally regards creating new perceptions as an investment since they prefer the process of refining and perfecting existing perspectives over creating new ones.


INTUITION

The focus on what is not immediately obvious/sensory/present. Intuition finds detail and 'A' equals 'A' observations tedious, and is stimulated by conjuring the meanings and interpretation behind concrete-fact/tangibles.

SENSING

So it follows very simply that sensing thrives off the tangible. Finds joy and comfort in immediacy, tangibility and straight-forward cause-effect, particularly when it makes for a simpler translation into actions.

FEELING

Moral values. Right/Wrong as guided by emotions/feelings.

THINKING

Logical constructs. Right/Wrong as guided by logic.


So that's hopefully a useful and clear guide that is easily followable to trace your functions. Simply combine one definition from the top half with one definition from the bottom half to find any function.

Also.... This guide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behaviour for finding a person's type accurately. MBTI boils down to very very simple concepts to understand at its core in reality. Behaviour is complicated, and is intertwined with a hell of a lot of other Psychological concepts which will easily confuse you.

In addition, remember that you use all four functions. Don't get confused thinking you "do both" things, because it's very likely you are just using two of your functions to see either side of the coin.
 

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Here it is people, the simplest and most clear way to identify all of the different function processes:


SUBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT FUNCTIONS vs OBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT FUNCTIONS

Subjective judgement functions (Fi/Ti) strive to create and maintain their own personal rulebook, whereas Objective judgement functions strive to ascertain THE rulebook (Fe/Te). Subjective judgement creates a personal opinion based on experiences, whereas Objective judgement believes a definitive single "truth" already pre-exists and needs to be mapped out.

So this is why Fi/Ti looks inward for answers and opinions, whereas Fe/Te searches outward for which thoughts/beliefs are correct.


CREATIVE PERCEPTION FUNCTIONS vs ACCUMULATING PERCEPTION FUNCTIONS

Creative perception functions (Ne/Se) seek to create new perceptions based off experiences/information, whereas accumulating perception functions (Ni/Si) try to accumulate and refine existing perceptions.

This is why Ne/Se prefer brand new experiences, because those are where the greatest quantity of new perceptions can be created, whereas Ni/Si generally regards creating new perceptions as an investment since they prefer the process of refining and perfecting existing perspectives over creating new ones.


INTUITION

The focus on what is not immediately obvious/tangible/present. Intuition finds detail and tangibility tedious, and is stimulated by what is not "obvious".

SENSING

So it follows very simply that sensing thrives off the tangible. Finds joy and comfort in immediacy, tangibility and straight-forward cause-effect, particularly when it makes for a simpler translation into actions.

FEELING

Moral values. Right/Wrong as guided by emotions/feelings.

THINKING

Logical constructs. Right/Wrong as guided by logic.


So that's hopefully a useful and clear guide that is easily followable to trace your functions. Simply combine one definition from the top half with one definition from the bottom half to find any function.

Also.... This guide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behaviour for finding a person's type accurately. MBTI boils down to very very simple concepts to understand at its core in reality. Behaviour is complicated, and is intertwined with a hell of a lot of other Psychological concepts which will easily confuse you.

In addition, remember that you use all four functions. Don't get confused thinking you "do both" things, because it's very likely you are just using two of your functions to see either side of the coin.
AMEN for simplicity! Plus yet another one for excluding the fking behaviour. Behaviour is out of scope of any typology instrument, it's so complex that even MMPI struggles with it(570+ questions O.O), let alone 90 question MBTI lol!

Plus, can you define "tangibility" please. It's kinda odd that anyone would dislike fine tastes, pleasant touches etc. I'd also give an example of "not obvious" thing.

Other than those fairly minor details, good job!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
@Ixim

Although I have sensing as a concept in my mind, it's very difficult to find a word that translates it just perfectly for someone who might not understand.. You can't just say "focus on what is present" and leave it at that, but that would be confusing to some. So in the interest of simplicity I did my best to come up with the closest simple words that describe it, in the hope that somewhere in the middle people would grasp exactly what sensing is.

I've gone back and edited it in the intuition section though cos I see what you mean..
 

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Perfect! I love it! I understand the Judging functions much better now. (I had been having trouble with those)

My only question: I sort of object to the use of the word "moral" in connection with Feeling. Fe deals with what's right in a strictly social sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean what's moral-- it includes what's moral, but that's not all of it. For example someone with strong Fe would be more likely to make fun of someone else for not wearing cool clothes, because wearing cool clothes is "right" socially. But of course how cool your clothes are is not a moral issue.
Fi, I suppose, deals with what's "right" to you in the same way, not necessarily moral, but just..... right. Just what feels right. Tasteful, aesthetic, almost... I don't know. Any ideas as to what to call it??

EDIT: if you permit me, I organized it/ refined it a bit further:

Fi: creates your own personal rulebook about what’s right and wrong according to your own feelings
Fe: ascribes to the socially-agreed upon rulebook for what’s right and wrong according to feelings
Ti: creates your own personal rulebook about what’s right and wrong according to logical analysis
Te: ascribes to the socially-agreed upon rulebook for what’s right and wrong according to logical analysis

Si: takes in concrete sensory data and stocks it up, to be refined and referred to later
Se: takes in concrete sensory from the present moment only, always throwing out the old and looking for new
Ni: generates ideas using intuition and stocks them up, to be refined and referred to later
Ne: generates ideas using intuition from the present moment only, always throwing out the old and looking for new
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@charlie.eliot

Yeah I do agree, I can see what you're saying for sure. "social" might be a bit too general too though because thinking functions can overlap with social right/wrong.

Hmm it won't let me edit it anymore however. Luckily the concept of "feeling" on its own is probably the easiest thing to grasp, so it's not too bad. You've put it in your thing as well so it's all good.
 

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My only question: I sort of object to the use of the word "moral" in connection with Feeling. Fe deals with what's right in a strictly social sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean what's moral-- it includes what's moral, but that's not all of it. For example someone with strong Fe would be more likely to make fun of someone else for not wearing cool clothes, because wearing cool clothes is "right" socially. But of course how cool your clothes are is not a moral issue.
Fi, I suppose, deals with what's "right" to you in the same way, not necessarily moral, but just..... right. Just what feels right. Tasteful, aesthetic, almost... I don't know. Any ideas as to what to call it??
I think the word you are looking for is "value"! "Value judgements" is something that I have seen others use to describe the Feeling functions. So it encompasses morality, because a value judgement can contain something like "I feel this is right/wrong", but it can be as simple as "I do/do not like this."
 

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Fi, I suppose, deals with what's "right" to you in the same way, not necessarily moral, but just..... right. Just what feels right. Tasteful, aesthetic, almost... I don't know. Any ideas as to what to call it??
Authentic? Organic to the individual?
 

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I almost feel like "what feels right to you" is satisfactory for describing Fi. As opposed to "what you imagine feels right to the people around you" for Fe. It may sound simplistic, but I think it gets at the core idea in a way that is easy to understand. Our cognitive functions aren't too complicated, alas.
 

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I almost feel like "what feels right to you" is satisfactory for describing Fi. As opposed to "what you imagine feels right to the people around you" for Fe. It may sound simplistic, but I think it gets at the core idea in a way that is easy to understand. Our cognitive functions aren't too complicated, alas.
Yeah it is closer to what most people think of as "intuition"/going with a gut instinct.

I was trying to think of the F functions more in ethical terms but I don't know. Maybe only Fe and Te can be ethical (it's been argued that ethics only apply when others besides the self are involved)? Fi perhaps sees it as unethical to not be honest with themselves... I guess it's kind of like a 'follow your conscience' ethics?
 

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I almost feel like "what feels right to you" is satisfactory for describing Fi. As opposed to "what you imagine feels right to the people around you" for Fe. It may sound simplistic, but I think it gets at the core idea in a way that is easy to understand. Our cognitive functions aren't too complicated, alas.
I just call Fi "My conscience", while Fe seems to me more like "The social standard"
 

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Even simpler...

Se: Seeks sensory and or physical experiences in the external world.
Si: Draws on past personal experiences making it unnecessary to constantly seek new experiences.
Ne: Seek and explore ideas, patterns, and or possibilities in the external world.
Ni: Perceive ideas, patterns, and or perspectives that emerge within.

Te: Seeks to make external activities, affairs, and or procedures more rational and efficient.
Ti: Concerned with inner rationality and personal effectiveness. These methods are individualized and less broadly applicable than those of Te.
Fe: Its goal is to encourage and or improve interpersonal harmony among people.
Fi: Its focus is on personal values, preferences, and feelings, largely independent of others.
 
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Keep guessing, typologists.
 

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@Tridentus:
I like it! And I agree with almost everything. I would only say that Ti (and Fi in a sense) are in fact looking for THE truth as well and Ti especiaaly may not be fully aware of the subjectivity of its reasoning. The main difference in my mind is that Ti and Fi are working off their own refined rulebooks (as you put it) whereas Te and Fe use external reality as their "rulebook" (they make judgments by referencing external rules and values)

Also, my understanding of F vs. T is that it had more to do with the way value judgments are made and not with the subject of interest. F works off of impressions and a sliding scale of values whereas T is more decisive and strict with its judgments (i.e. Something is either right or wrong, functional or non-functional, etc). So F is quite capable of reasoning through a math problem or a logical argument, but it will have more of a fuzzy aproach to it.
 

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Sensing Saving for retirement (Si) or In debt and running from creditors your entire life (Se)

Intuition What's the next big thing? (Ni) or ADD spit-balling (Ne)

Feeling Emo (Fi) or Guru (Fe)

Thinking Sociopath (Ti) or Dictator (Te)
 

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Ti: Subjective Impersonal Truth
Te: Objective Impersonal Truth
Fi: Subjective Personal Truth
Fe: Objective (inter)Personal Truth

Ni: Subjective Pattern Recognition
Ne: Objective Pattern Recognition
Si: Subjective Experience Recognition
Se: Objective Experience Recognition
 
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